Can't NCSoft release it as a singleplayer?

[Benedetto]

I'm aware of the allure of CoH's community and, trust me, I loved it as much as anybody else did. But I would also love, so desperately now that Paragon Chat is out, to actually be able to play the effing game again in any way at all. One thing that has always driven me nuts about MMORPGs is that you'll end up shelling out more money you would on game you own for something that can be basically re-possessed- even if everything still exists out in cyberspace which it clearly does! That is so...perfectly frustrating. I think the novelty of a City of Heroes you can actually possess and never lose the same way is pretty strong. Also there's the nostalgia aspect, the built in fanbase- maybe this could be a way of taking the the temperature of CoH's potential that's less financially-dangerous than trying to restore it? Maybe a return to Paragon in some form would eventuate if it made money and/or generated interest.

I've played Knights of the Old Republic (1 & 2), the Sims 2, and Jedi Academy on my computer and they're all as old as CoH and it's not the same as things were in 2004-2005. But being able to have these games, to play these games, to have them barely take up any space, and to get visit these worlds again is pretty awesome. If I can't get what I want (a full restoration), the consolation prize really, really wouldn't suck.

[Remaugen]

That would work for me as well.

[Brigadine]

idk. I never had very good luck fighting solo.

[Remaugen]

I preferred solo, I had multiple accounts which I would run at the same time for farming and leveling.

[Lycantropus]

I, personally, could just as happily play it solo (I got an FF/Ice Defender to 50 once, solo for the most part) so I know I would.

Yes. I'd miss the multiplayer element, but I like the play, story, and lore just as much as I did. I'd STILL make time for that, and play with my friends in other worlds like I still do. The City is a special place for me in that regard, and it is a shame they took it away from us like that.

I SO wished that they had done that and made it single player, and the response from the Dev's in other online games I play revolve around their answer to my question in that regard since, and how I view them from then on. I think it's a damn shame that anyone can take a world you invest yourself in away from you like that. I haven't been able to consider another game from NC since because of it (and no, I don't judge anyone here who does negatively- I just can't bring *myself* to do it).

To be fair, CoH was the first MMO I actually got myself involved in, so its loss was also just as impacting. I'm just glad the little group of friends I made during that time made an effort to stick together nonetheless. Not every group was as lucky. Online social networks can be just as important as face-to-face ones, and the lack of that awareness by it's producers is what made me wary of them after the fact. If *they* don't realize their potential impact in the games they create, then I cant' trust *them* to respect it in any other game they create, is all.

For those who can overlook that, game on, I say.

Lyc~

[blacksly]

NCSoft has not even sold the IP rights off, nor sold the last game image that they were able to find. There is no way that they would do the work required to convert the server into a program that can run on the same machine as the client. It would be far easier for them to sell the image that they have for the MMORPG, and they haven't done that. A single-player CoH is, at this point, somewhere less realistic than wishful thinking. Well, at least, from NCSoft.
We are likely to get something like a single player or small group version of a CoH emulator from unnamed sources, 2-3 centuries before getting a single player version of CoH from NCSoft.

[Benedetto]

NCSoft has not even sold the IP rights off, nor sold the last game image that they were able to find. There is no way that they would do the work required to convert the server into a program that can run on the same machine as the client. It would be far easier for them to sell the image that they have for the MMORPG, and they haven't done that. A single-player CoH is, at this point, somewhere less realistic than wishful thinking. Well, at least, from NCSoft.
We are likely to get something like a single player or small group version of a CoH emulator from unnamed sources, 2-3 centuries before getting a single player version of CoH from NCSoft.

I see their not selling City of Heroes as an indication that they recognize it's intrinsic value as intellectual property with a potential financial gain. Otherwise, why keep it? Also, NCSoft works on gaming now that is far more complicated than CoH ever was- I'm not entirely sure restoring a version of CoH would be all that cumbersome for them.

[Tahquitz]

I see their not selling City of Heroes as an indication that they recognize it's intrinsic value as intellectual property with a potential financial gain. Otherwise, why keep it?

As the computer Deep Thought was constructed in The Hitchhiker's Guide to The Galaxy to come up with the answer to life, the universe and everything, the "New Efforts" thread on here has been our attempt to answer the above question.  And so far, we're meeting with similar results: THeM may be playing poker with NCSoft employees as we speak, we're all mutually interested in Physics, and as a community, we can all indeed agree on one thing other than we want City of Heroes back -- we also agree that the movie "Airplane" is awesome.

That's as far as we've got.

[Benedetto]

I, personally, could just as happily play it solo (I got an FF/Ice Defender to 50 once, solo for the most part) so I know I would.

Yes. I'd miss the multiplayer element, but I like the play, story, and lore just as much as I did. I'd STILL make time for that, and play with my friends in other worlds like I still do. The City is a special place for me in that regard, and it is a shame they took it away from us like that.

I SO wished that they had done that and made it single player, and the response from the Dev's in other online games I play revolve around their answer to my question in that regard since, and how I view them from then on. I think it's a damn shame that anyone can take a world you invest yourself in away from you like that. I haven't been able to consider another game from NC since because of it (and no, I don't judge anyone here who does negatively- I just can't bring *myself* to do it).

To be fair, CoH was the first MMO I actually got myself involved in, so its loss was also just as impacting. I'm just glad the little group of friends I made during that time made an effort to stick together nonetheless. Not every group was as lucky. Online social networks can be just as important as face-to-face ones, and the lack of that awareness by it's producers is what made me wary of them after the fact. If *they* don't realize their potential impact in the games they create, then I cant' trust *them* to respect it in any other game they create, is all.

For those who can overlook that, game on, I say.

Lyc~

Same, so much same! Some parts of them game are almost better when you're alone- I remember playing through First Ward and feeling like I was losing my effing mind in the best way possible. The amount of possibilities the game presents, the different paths you can take definitely maintain it's allure. You can play Hero, Villain, Praetorian Loyalist, Resistance- so much content, so much ability to switch around from place to place, it's a pretty sweet deal. Also, NCSoft West has taken quite a few tumbles, this time last year their sales had gone down 35%, NCSoft was talking about aspirations to have a presence in the western market in spite of that. What better place to start with than CoH?

I agree about MMORPGs too, I tried Marvel Heroes and they can be very enchanting but CoH still had and has SUCH an edge on them with customization and gameplay that really isn't repetitive at all.

[silvers1]

While singleplayer would be nice, it still just wouldn't be the same.   The world would feel empty to me without all the
ongoing zone chat and seeing other players flying around.

   Also, a lot of the enjoyment of the game, to me at least, was getting in random groups and seeing the interplay
between all the different powers.   No two groups ever felt the same, and that is something I've never seen replicated
anywhere else.

Having said all that, I would definitely buy a single player version of the game, though I probably wouldn't play it as
frequently as the original online version.

Seriously doubt they will ever release the game in any state or give up the IP.   I think we wounded their Korean "pride",
when we raised a fuss over the closure.

[Apocalord]

I've wondered the same thing or if too hard to do something similar like having a single player version of AE where we could design single player missions to run.I would miss the other people and the teams and all the multi-player stuff as well but this would at least satisfy my HUGE craving to be able to not just be able to create my heroes and villains again but to be able to use all the powersets I miss so much.Plus if they could make a single player version of AE for now,maybe we could also trade and play other peoples missions also because the ones we made ourselves would be fun but knowing what is going to happen next would take some of the fun out of it so playing other people's missions would give back the enjoyment of not knowing what was coming next.Just an idea anyway,but I hope something is still going on about getting the full version back and if so could they PLEASE get off their butts and speed it up a bit!

[Sinistar]

I see their not selling City of Heroes as an indication that they recognize it's intrinsic value as intellectual property with a potential financial gain. Otherwise, why keep it?

Pride and stupidity.

[Sinistar]

While singleplayer would be nice, it still just wouldn't be the same.   The world would feel empty to me without all the
ongoing zone chat and seeing other players flying around.

   Also, a lot of the enjoyment of the game, to me at least, was getting in random groups and seeing the interplay
between all the different powers.   No two groups ever felt the same, and that is something I've never seen replicated
anywhere else.

Having said all that, I would definitely buy a single player version of the game, though I probably wouldn't play it as
frequently as the original online version.

Seriously doubt they will ever release the game in any state or give up the IP.   I think we wounded their Korean "pride",
when we raised a fuss over the closure.

If it were released as a single player version and then came back as a MMO and we could port our alts in from the single player version.....

[Styrj]

As a solo player since I2 Beta, if CoHV came back as a solo game, I would play it in a heartbeat.  The only time I ever teamed was when my son was playing.  He had to stop to pursue his Masters.  So, I continued to play solo until NCStupid took my game away.

Pride and stupidity.

I too believe that pride (as in loosing face), stupidity, and not understanding their North American customer base has a lot to do with NCS not selling or releasing the CoHV IP (just my thoughts  ).  However, my heart-filled thanks go out to CW & crew for giving us PC to ease the pain of our loss.

[Styrj]

I have often wondered why NCS did not keep the game alive by putting it in maintenance mode I24 with a skeleton crew to run the servers.  This would have appeased most (I think, just guessing here) players and would have brought in revenue with little expense.

[Nyx Nought Nothing]

I have often wondered why NCS did not keep the game alive by putting it in maintenance mode I24 with a skeleton crew to run the servers.  This would have appeased most (I think, just guessing here) players and would have brought in revenue with little expense.

Some publishers have done that, but NCsoft's consistent policy has been to shutter their MMOs completely, especially the Western releases.
Sadly, a single player version is not likely without a significant amount of coding and access to the source. You'd basically have a to code somewhat stripped-down and merged version of the server code which was designed to work as a series of interconnected databases and modules, each of which handled a different aspect of gameplay. Not to mention writing a market emulator since you won't be using the market database, although i suppose it could just be a static table of items and prices. And adjusting the game code to have recruitable NPCs as teammates for Trials, TFs and SFs. Really, to convert CoH/V to a single player game that's not a huge resource hog it might be best to build it from scratch using the server source code as a reference. A small studio could probably do it within a couple years.

[Benedetto]

Some publishers have done that, but NCsoft's consistent policy has been to shutter their MMOs completely, especially the Western releases.
Sadly, a single player version is not likely without a significant amount of coding and access to the source. You'd basically have a to code somewhat stripped-down and merged version of the server code which was designed to work as a series of interconnected databases and modules, each of which handled a different aspect of gameplay. Not to mention writing a market emulator since you won't be using the market database, although i suppose it could just be a static table of items and prices. And adjusting the game code to have recruitable NPCs as teammates for Trials, TFs and SFs. Really, to convert CoH/V to a single player game that's not a huge resource hog it might be best to build it from scratch using the server source code as a reference. A small studio could probably do it within a couple years.

Recruitable NPCs would be a very good idea, it could at least mimic the experience of the original game which is what some fans with reservations will appreciate. To expand on that, I wonder if it would be possible to recruit NPC versions of your own characters of the same alignment? See, that I would consider to be a major selling point because it's something many players would've liked to experience. Like team missions in the original game, the level of the characters could be adjusted and they could potentially gain experience too.

What's interesting to me is that NCSoft allows Paragon Chat to exist, it appears as though they're not outright opposed to an iteration of the game having an afterlife so long as it's not for profit. I wonder how they would react to a team proposing a singleplayer version of the game that uses crowdfunding for development purposes but releases the game as being free-to-play/download? Again, if that version of City of Heroes generated palpable interest in the franchise, it could at least serve to prove to NCSoft that it's still a viable product. The selling point there would be that it could basically be free market research for NCSoft regarding a property they own and could potentially capitalize on. And if the foundation for a sequel is there, they might work with those efforts and provide resources.

Maybe the answer is working with NCSoft rather than trying to broker a deal to purchase CoH. Because, in order to negotiate with NCSoft, you have to convince them that City of Heroes still matters to people, that it still could be an awesome franchise, that it could still be a successful franchise....so, in other words, a meaningful, awesome, successful franchise they should just let go of. Obviously they won't want to do that, seeing your point in making a case for CoH actually is a compelling reason for them not to forfeit it.

[Paragon Avenger]

First, since Paragon Chat isn't a game, they allow it or can't touch it.
Second, A single Player version of CoH would pretty much, in my oppinion, stink.

[BrumePourpre]

I see their not selling City of Heroes as an indication that they recognize it's intrinsic value as intellectual property with a potential financial gain. Otherwise, why keep it? Also, NCSoft works on gaming now that is far more complicated than CoH ever was- I'm not entirely sure restoring a version of CoH would be all that cumbersome for them.

IMHO NCSoft don't sell CoH, because they say than CoH has a 80m$ value, and noone wishes to pay that much (because it doesn't value that much in fact, otherwise, they wouldn't have closed it). But in their company accounting, about their holdings and possessions (and for their shareholders), it values 80m$.  If they sold it, it would never be for this price, so they will literally lose a lot of money (just because the asked price is far too much).  Keeped for 80 in accounting, or sold for far less.....
English language is not my native one, so i just hope to have typed something meaningful.

[Angel Phoenix77]

IMHO NCSoft don't sell CoH, because they say than CoH has a 80m$ value, and noone wishes to pay that much (because it doesn't value that much in fact, otherwise, they wouldn't have closed it). But in their company accounting, about their holdings and possessions (and for their shareholders), it values 80m$.  If they sold it, it would never be for this price, so they will literally lose a lot of money (just because the asked price is far too much).  Keeped for 80 in accounting, or sold for far less.....
English language is not my native one, so i just hope to have typed something meaningful.

Actually, City of. is not worth $80 mil, I have no idea where you heard that number from. From reading Wolf's posts, it is worth far less. The reason Ncsoft has said that the number the buyers brought was double.

[AmberOfDzu]

$80 Million does sound very high.

Iirc, if you want to assign a value to intellectual property, it's supposed to be the present value of the anticipated future earnings.

IMO, CoH/V had value the day before they announced it would close, and I think it would have dropped like a stone after that. The more resistant they are to reviving, reusing, or re-purposing it, the less value it has. I'll grant that people grossly over-estimate the value of IP all the time, but there's only so much of that people can get away with.

[Azrael]

If a local p2p micro server version can be achieved...that would be enough for me.

Just to have mobs milling around would give it the breath of life it once had.

I could never team up with more than 8 people at a time and usually played with a handful of people I knew for its 8 years plus...  So it's unnecessary for me to see thousands of players online.  I'd get to be a rather unique hero rather than one of many.  An Unreal LAN capability would suffice for me.  Clustering the 'rump' of the CoH community together through micro servers.

Being able to run my own micro server for a team of players who I used to team with would be more than enough.

As for content.  Tools to script our own missions and for them to be easily shareable would be great so would could craft our own tailor made 'Sun Storm' story arcs.

That's it.

I guess there's a bit of work to do before then.  But I look at Nostralius (the WoW 'vanilla' server...) and see hope when the community of MMO players band together.

Azrael.