Statesman is Back... in MXM

[RybackStun]

Formed in 1938 by the fascists Requiem, Vandal and Nosferatu, the 5th Column is an organization that has gone through a great deal of change. From their early days fighting the First Hero Brigade to their rebirth during the Rikti Invasion, they have always been one of the most insidious threats in Paragon City. It's truly ironic that their biggest defeat was at the hands of enemies from within. The Center and his Council cronies beat the 5th Column at their own game, or so it would appear. Not all the loyalists were subsumed by the Council's takeover, and it's only a matter of time before a strong leader brings the 5th Column back to power.

If you take over a bunch of fascist from the inside with the tacit agreement of the majority of the group, the resulting group is still fascist even if you give it a different logo and name. The Council beat the 5th Column at their own game, by exemplifying fascist ideas to a higher degree. They didn't become a kinder and gentler 5th Column, they were worse.

Facism =/= Nazism. Yeah, they're all facists. If that's the point you are trying to make, Congratulations you've revealed 100% obvious information. If the point you are trying to make is that The Council are also Nazis, there isn't evidence to support that.

Out of curiousity ross134, since you are 'explaining why it was done', do you have insider info about the decisions made for MxM? Are you a developer for the game, company or perhaps an investor? How do you know 'why' certain decision were made?
Or are you simply advocating for the game and guessing?

I've done my fair share of guessing, so I'm interested in how you've arrived at your opinion. 

I don't have insider info, I have info from various sources for other companies that have done their best to remove Organized Crime references from the games and universes they are involved in. It's not hard to extrapolate why a bunch of companies are removing Mob-like organizations from their products (if at least by name).

I could be wrong and Sean and the crew just liked the Council more than the Family or there was some other random reason why they did it, but given Sean's stature in the Western section of the company and his appreciation for our game, I can imagine he tried Family first, was told no, and went with the second/third best thing.

[MyriVerse]

I can't, for the life of me, think The Family were ever a possibility. They're pretty much CoH's most boring villain group. IP is the odd setting, but not really all that much-- IP is just a much, much better setting than somewhere like Striga Island. It's more emotive to have Council in a fairly typical urban setting than an island base.

[Power Gamer]

Well, I believe the original design of the 5th Column was based on the Nazis hence the deaths head in their logo. But it was decided to change the background somewhat to make it less odious to publishing in Germany.

I don't have the quote that would verify it, I simply remember a conversation with a dev along that line. If I find it again, I'll pass it along.

ross134, you stated they weren't fascist:

The Council weren't Facists, they were just a subgroup within the 5th Column.

And then you state that it's 100% obvious they are fascists:

Facism =/= Nazism. Yeah, they're all facists. If that's the point you are trying to make, Congratulations you've revealed 100% obvious information...

As to whether one zone or another is more emotive, that is personal choice.
I've played fighting games that are in different types of environments, so IMO it comes down to personal taste.

[MyriVerse]

Well, I believe the original design of the 5th Column was based on the Nazis hence the deaths head in their logo. But it was decided to change the background somewhat to make it less odious to publishing in Germany.

I don't have the quote that would verify it, I simply remember a conversation with a dev along that line. If I find it again, I'll pass it along.

Heck, their backstory was even that the 5th Column worked directly for Hitler.

[Vee]

My guess would be they were going to put one villain group in the level. They could either put one with robots and werewolves and vampires that were probably the most fought group in coh, or the the one with a bunch of guys distinguished only by suit color who you fight in Port oakes  and IP. Doesn't really seem like a tough decision.

[RybackStun]

Well, I believe the original design of the 5th Column was based on the Nazis hence the deaths head in their logo. But it was decided to change the background somewhat to make it less odious to publishing in Germany.

I don't have the quote that would verify it, I simply remember a conversation with a dev along that line. If I find it again, I'll pass it along.

ross134, you stated they weren't fascist:
And then you state that it's 100% obvious they are fascists:
As to whether one zone or another is more emotive, that is personal choice.
I've played fighting games that are in different types of environments, so IMO it comes down to personal taste.

Unsure why I wrote that the Council weren't Facists in that quoted post, I did mean they weren't Nazis. Apologies for the confusion

[Power Gamer]

Thanks ross134, I appreciate that you are excited about MxM.

Apology accepted.

Hope you will accept my apology for any unkind words or
attitudes you may have read in my comments.

I am passionate too. 

[RybackStun]

All good, we're all passionate at different things and 100% understand that you aren't interested in the game. I wasn't at first but I saw gameplay and played in the closed beta and now it's a nice relax game that I can play whenever I'm bored of other stuff lol.

[Power Gamer]

Aside from Paragon Chat, I mainly game on a console.

That's what the loss of CoX did, made me a console gamer.

[princezilla]

So NCSoft wants to avoid referring to organized crime, but is perfectly fine with fascist? 

CoX is a game where themes revolve around crime and such, rather odd move to exclude the concept of organized crime.

Frankly, I don't buy it.

I can't, for the life of me, think The Family were ever a possibility. They're pretty much CoH's most boring villain group. IP is the odd setting, but not really all that much-- IP is just a much, much better setting than somewhere like Striga Island. It's more emotive to have Council in a fairly typical urban setting than an island base.

I think this is the far more likely explanation, in terms of design the Family were among the least memorable groups in the game, plus they lack an Archvillain to serve as a level boss. The Council on the other hand have a very distinct and recognizable aesthetic, in terms of interesting villains alien powered fascists tops 'some guys in suits with guns who sell drugs.' On top of that if most of the game's characters are fighting at the level of States or Ghost Widow the Council makes a far more credible threat.

[downix]

So NCSoft wants to avoid referring to organized crime, but is perfectly fine with fascist? 

#punchafascist

[downix]

I REALLY hope you didn't send that... because that is 100% totally the wrong project that you linked to with everything there......

I was about to say....

[princezilla]

I REALLY hope you didn't send that... because that is 100% totally the wrong project that you linked to with everything there......

You mean on top of the multitude of other things which are horribly wrong in that message?

[cmgangrel]

You mean on top of the multitude of other things which are horribly wrong in that message?

I honestly couldn't think of a way to reply which didn't involve stereotyping...

[Felderburg]

Just catching up on this, and now learning that Ghost Widow is in the game... Her lore is surprisingly well done, or so it seems to me (http://www.playmxm.com/en/masters/ghost-widow). What I find interesting is that according to Statesman's lore, he was pretty important in the first battle against the bad guys (http://www.playmxm.com/en/masters/statesman). I wonder if they'll keep that importance in whatever the storyline is.

Is there a giant octopus in the Independence Port backgrounds?

[princezilla]

I honestly hope that the game does well and attracts a lot of new attention to the characters.

[themichigami]

Unsure why I wrote that the Council weren't Facists in that quoted post, I did mean they weren't Nazis. Apologies for the confusion

but... weren't they the ones with the secret bases covered in nazi flags?  it was either them or 5th, or both, i forget who was what at the time, but i remember seeing screencaps of a big cavern base area thing with giant wannabe nazi banners and reich themeing they cut from the game.  they altered the lore and built a new area later on, but supposedly the original area with its old assets still existed it just couldn't be accessed anymore.

I forget who it was for but I did one of the quests in another place that had the big reservoirs like 8 big swimming pools stacked on each other in a cave that they still had the red banners minus the logo on them on the walls, i screencapped em but i'd have to go hunting for them on backup disks from the old compy.  was something about people poisoning the water supply, the only reason i remember the quest is because i saw the banners and was like WTH and my friend was like "yeah they used to be nazis but they took it out of the game, you can still find bits they missed in some places"

[eabrace]

Well, that didn't take long.

https://www.pcgamesn.com/master-x-master/master-x-master-shut-down

NCSoft dipped their toes into the lucrative MOBA market with Master X Master starting in 2014, but it seems the experiment has ultimately proven a failure, as the game will shut down on January 31.

[RybackStun]

Nope. I thought they would last longer than this, but I'm not surprised at all that NCSoft shut it down. That's what they do.

Back into the Archive CoH goes!

[ScottyB]

"Statesman is back... aaand he's gone again."

Good strategy, NCSoft, if you close a game less than half a year after launch you can launch a new game to shut down that much sooner!