Author Topic: City of Heroes 2  (Read 12708 times)

princezilla

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City of Heroes 2
« on: July 10, 2017, 05:39:15 AM »
After five years of completely ignoring the IP and generally seeming like they'd prefer it if people forgot CoH ever existed NCsoft seemingly out of nowhere started utilizing it again. Now this could easily be a clueless attempt to draw in VoX alumni to their new game by sticking the guy on the cover of it's box in as a playable character and yet the backstory they released for him heavily features elements which were only revealed in the post sunset AMAs showing that they did in fact put some thought into it. Then they brought in Ghost Widow and CoX themed PvE content. Again, this could mean nothing, it could be as some have reported the work of a lone company official who played the game back in the day and fought to get pieces of it included in this new project in tribute. It probably is.

But.

The very fact that they are using the IP again raises a possibility that most of the community had written off years ago:

The City of name being revived through a sequel while still under NCsoft.

Now I'm curious, given the hostility many here bare for the company would you play a new game set in Paragon if they were running it? For me the answer is a resounding 'hell yes' but I want to know what others think.

LateNights

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2017, 06:22:48 AM »
I'd almost boycott it just for using the name CoH 2 - I hate any MMO that's so lacking in creativity that they would simply slap a "2" on the end and call it a day...

But if NC were responsible I'd probably be ok with it; at the end of the day they made a business decision, whether or not it seemed like good sense to us isn't their highest priority, nor does it have to be.

princezilla

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2017, 06:29:32 AM »
I'd almost boycott it just for using the name CoH 2 - I hate any MMO that's so lacking in creativity that they would simply slap a "2" on the end and call it a day...

But if NC were responsible I'd probably be ok with it; at the end of the day they made a business decision, whether or not it seemed like good sense to us isn't their highest priority, nor does it have to be.

If I had to place money on it I'd say they'd probably go with City of Heroes: Rebirth, I just used two as a general indicator of a sequel so everyone would instantly know what it was referring to.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 07:11:37 AM by princezilla »

Abraxus

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2017, 12:59:32 AM »
Depends on a whole lot of variables that we could not know the answer to until such a thing were announced, and information about it published. 

However, I am not opposed to it on pure principle.  In fact, if such a thing were in the works, it would retroactively explain a LOT of things that have had us all irritated, and confused.
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Surelle

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2017, 10:25:47 AM »
After five years of completely ignoring the IP and generally seeming like they'd prefer it if people forgot CoH ever existed NCsoft seemingly out of nowhere started utilizing it again. Now this could easily be a clueless attempt to draw in VoX alumni to their new game by sticking the guy on the cover of it's box in as a playable character and yet the backstory they released for him heavily features elements which were only revealed in the post sunset AMAs showing that they did in fact put some thought into it. Then they brought in Ghost Widow and CoX themed PvE content. Again, this could mean nothing, it could be as some have reported the work of a lone company official who played the game back in the day and fought to get pieces of it included in this new project in tribute. It probably is.

But.

The very fact that they are using the IP again raises a possibility that most of the community had written off years ago:

The City of name being revived through a sequel while still under NCsoft.

Now I'm curious, given the hostility many here bare for the company would you play a new game set in Paragon if they were running it? For me the answer is a resounding 'hell yes' but I want to know what others think.


Okay, sorry and not meaning to rain on the parade here, but....Dead trademarks are lost in 5 years if left unused.  That is what happened here.  Please see Downix's posts on the subject here:


https://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php?topic=12539.msg218683#msg218683

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City of Heroes / Re: Statesman is Back... in MXM
« on: April 09, 2017, 05:17:02 PM by Downix»

Remember, Trademarks have a "use them or loose them" nature. One of the reasons why City of Titans has t-shirts for sale is to maintain our trademark. The inclusion of Statesman would be considered "use" of the City of Heroes trademark.

https://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php?topic=12539.msg218689#msg218689


Quote
Quote from: Power Gamer on April 09, 2017, 06:01:22 PM
Respectfully downix,

Trademarks expire by law after 10 years unless the owner files an Application for Renewal before the end of the tenth year following the date of registration. Provided there are no problems, the trademark will be renewed for another 10 years.

Renewal of the application is far less expensive or time consuming than including the iconic character in an unrelated property.  ;)


Downix:

Only if active. Inactive trademarks can be lost after 5 years.



Quote
Quote from: Power Gamer on April 09, 2017, 10:09:34 PM
CoH Freedom is a live trademark.


Downix:
Yes, and it would have been a dead trademark if not used.




« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 10:31:37 AM by Surelle »

Thunder Glove

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2017, 01:27:04 PM »
I don't want a CoH2 under NCSoft.  I want it under Paragon Studios.

There's other superhero games out there, but none of them are the happy mess of accidents that combined to make the superhero game I actually want to play.  DCUO is a gear grind where you play Superman's lowly sidekick, CO keeps making the characters weaker (and they weren't that powerful to begin with), and ... well, that's about it for games where you can create your own character.

I'm hoping that CoT or SoH or VO will have at least some of CoH's feel to them.

princezilla

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2017, 05:12:51 PM »
I don't want a CoH2 under NCSoft.  I want it under Paragon Studios.

There's other superhero games out there, but none of them are the happy mess of accidents that combined to make the superhero game I actually want to play.  DCUO is a gear grind where you play Superman's lowly sidekick, CO keeps making the characters weaker (and they weren't that powerful to begin with), and ... well, that's about it for games where you can create your own character.

I'm hoping that CoT or SoH or VO will have at least some of CoH's feel to them.

Not to mention CO's terrible lore and DC's pathetic character creator.

I agree that it would be nice to have most of the old Dev team back but reviving the studio isn't a realistic expectation and many of the members have become invested in other projects.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 05:29:41 PM by princezilla »

princezilla

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2017, 05:25:12 PM »

Okay, sorry and not meaning to rain on the parade here, but....Dead trademarks are lost in 5 years if left unused.  That is what happened here.  Please see Downix's posts on the subject here:


https://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php?topic=12539.msg218683#msg218683

18
City of Heroes / Re: Statesman is Back... in MXM
« on: April 09, 2017, 05:17:02 PM by Downix»

Remember, Trademarks have a "use them or loose them" nature. One of the reasons why City of Titans has t-shirts for sale is to maintain our trademark. The inclusion of Statesman would be considered "use" of the City of Heroes trademark.

https://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php?topic=12539.msg218689#msg218689


Quote
Quote from: Power Gamer on April 09, 2017, 06:01:22 PM
Respectfully downix,

Trademarks expire by law after 10 years unless the owner files an Application for Renewal before the end of the tenth year following the date of registration. Provided there are no problems, the trademark will be renewed for another 10 years.

Renewal of the application is far less expensive or time consuming than including the iconic character in an unrelated property.  ;)


Downix:

Only if active. Inactive trademarks can be lost after 5 years.



Quote
Quote from: Power Gamer on April 09, 2017, 10:09:34 PM
CoH Freedom is a live trademark.


Downix:
Yes, and it would have been a dead trademark if not used.

This is true but they could have put far less investment into it if that was all they wanted and they haven't made such efforts with other defunct IPs they have.

Again I never said this was a sure thing or even likely, just that their renewed interest in the IP raised it as a realistic possibility.

rookery.

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2017, 06:01:08 PM »
At this point, I am content to wait for one or any of the successors, CoT, Valiance, Ship of Heroes...rather than a COH2.

downix

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2017, 06:15:33 PM »
I don't want a CoH2 under NCSoft.  I want it under Paragon Studios.
Paragon Studios is gone. It has been gone since NCSoft shut down NCInteractive, Inc., it's holding company, in December 2012.

downix

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2017, 06:19:01 PM »
Let's be honest, the most likely way for this to happen would be if they were to buy out one of the spiritual successor projects.

princezilla

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2017, 07:18:09 PM »
Let's be honest, the most likely way for this to happen would be if they were to buy out one of the spiritual successor projects.

That's actually the least likely way it would happen for a number of reasons. Realistically the only way this would come about is if they agreed to give the rights to one of the teams negotiating for them but only on the condition that they remained in control of the IP which seems kinda unlikely and I'm not certain that anyone on the successor project would agree to that regardless.

They would most likely like to assemble their own team, drawing from people who worked on the original where possible.

GenericHero05

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2017, 07:34:21 PM »
I would be interested but I would want the general parts of the game to stay the same as CoH1.  The same look and way to place enhancements; the same look and way you choose your powers; the same way you use your inspirations and so on.  I'd want a continuation of CoH1 but with only improvements (not that I truly thought any were needed).
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princezilla

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2017, 07:59:59 PM »
I would be interested but I would want the general parts of the game to stay the same as CoH1.  The same look and way to place enhancements; the same look and way you choose your powers; the same way you use your inspirations and so on.  I'd want a continuation of CoH1 but with only improvements (not that I truly thought any were needed).

CoH was great but it could be improved upon in a lot of areas, not mention that by the end the game was held together by the coding equivalent of paperclips and duck tape by the end according to the devs which along with it's aging engine limited what they could do in a lot of ways. I would have definitely preferred to keep the old game as it ran just for the community and investment put into it but a new start opens up a huge range of possibilities to expand on the leveling, creation and enhancement systems they used which would have never been possible before. They should definitely use the old system as a guideline rather than start from scratch with something completely different but I'd also expect them to take full advantage of new technology. This is getting off topic however, I'll start a new thread just for this aspect unrelated to the general idea of 'ok you play on principle?' because this is a very interesting line of discussion but I don't want to derail theis thread.

downix

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2017, 08:06:01 PM »
That's actually the least likely way it would happen for a number of reasons. Realistically the only way this would come about is if they agreed to give the rights to one of the teams negotiating for them but only on the condition that they remained in control of the IP which seems kinda unlikely and I'm not certain that anyone on the successor project would agree to that regardless.

They would most likely like to assemble their own team, drawing from people who worked on the original where possible.
I don't think you're quite understanding what I am saying. I am saying that if CoH2 comes out, it will most likely be an NCSoft product. I have to take the inclusion of CoH IP in MxM as an indication that they will not sell, but that they will gladly *use* the IP, for a product they own.

princezilla

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2017, 08:35:19 PM »
I don't think you're quite understanding what I am saying. I am saying that if CoH2 comes out, it will most likely be an NCSoft product. I have to take the inclusion of CoH IP in MxM as an indication that they will not sell, but that they will gladly *use* the IP, for a product they own.

I think you misunderstood the original topic in that case, this thread was exclusively about if it was put out by NCsoft. In any case I doubt they would buy out another game being made and revamp the work to make it CoX rather then starting from scratch.

downix

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2017, 08:54:12 PM »
I think you misunderstood the original topic in that case, this thread was exclusively about if it was put out by NCsoft. In any case I doubt they would buy out another game being made and revamp the work to make it CoX rather then starting from scratch.
That depends greatly on the amount of work needed. Remember, from scratch is a $40-$200 Million dollar expense, over 5-8 years. An under development title which could be repurposed would be a time and money saver for them.

princezilla

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2017, 12:27:16 AM »
That depends greatly on the amount of work needed. Remember, from scratch is a $40-$200 Million dollar expense, over 5-8 years. An under development title which could be repurposed would be a time and money saver for them.

Unless they were already in talks with one over something related I doubt they'd reach out, and even then I think they'd want more creative control over the project from the start.

AmberOfDzu

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2017, 01:31:55 AM »
I don't have much to add other than that I would call a new version "City of Heroes: Reincarnate"

FourSpeed

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Re: City of Heroes 2
« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2017, 08:35:04 PM »
Now I'm curious, given the hostility many here bare for the company would you play a new game set in Paragon if they were running it? For me the answer is a resounding 'hell yes' but I want to know what others think.

In answer to the OP's question, for me, there is an absolutely "no grey", pure black and white answer. 

NO.  If NCsoft has *any* stake, interest, or claim to a product, in any way shape or form, I will not give it a second glance. That includes running the former game in maintenance mode, in addition to *any* product they ever market now or in the future. YMMV.

My question would be simple. "Is NCsoft involved with this product in any form whatsoever?" If the answer to that question is "Yes", then they can go "pancake" themselves.

After CoH, and Tabula Rasa, the way they treat their partners and customers, and now with MXM, NCsoft does not, and will not *ever* deserve more than an "F U" from me.  Again, YMMV.

The only way I would ever even consider the thought of getting involved in one of their products is if they entirely divest themselves of it, 100%.  As long as they're involved, at all, I won't be....     No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

Life is too short to put up with their brand of crap, especially when it comes to my personal, leisure-time, voluntary entertainment choices... 

Now, if for example, some unaffiliated group were to pick up CoH, and demonstrably shows that NCsoft is not in any way affiliated or involved with it anymore (including royalties, ongoing licensing fees, etc.), I'd be on-board in a heart beat.   

Of course,  that was always little more than a feeble hope, and at this point, with the re-use of their IP, it is now pretty much an impossibility.  Humanity will colonize Mars, and Pete Rose will be reinstated by Major League Baseball long before that game ever sees the light of day again (in someone else's hands).

As for the successor projects, I wish them all the best. When they finally emerge, I'll give them a look (on their own merits - not as a CoH replacement).


Regards,
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