Author Topic: Design 'City of Heroes: Rebirth'  (Read 3578 times)

princezilla

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 126
Design 'City of Heroes: Rebirth'
« on: July 11, 2017, 08:28:21 PM »
Spurred by comments in another thread and reusing concepts from yet another thread I've decided to bring this here. Disregarding the legal logistics of it happening what are some of the things you would like/need to see in a sequel to CoX? This includes being things you feel that anyone making such a game should do, such as retaining the core concepts of its system of powers and enhancements, general improvements you feel they should make from the first game ie: costume limitations they should remove or mechanics you think they should add, and lastly lore changes and story arcs you feel they should explore. I'll let others start the conversation, please comment on other people's suggestions in addition to adding your own!

duane

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 318
Re: Design 'City of Heroes: Rebirth'
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2017, 11:00:38 PM »
You will find no better answers in any number of new threads created

freewaydog

  • Minion
  • **
  • Posts: 37
Re: Design 'City of Heroes: Rebirth'
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2017, 11:50:19 PM »
Well for one thing, I would love to see an "Architect Entertainment"-type thing, where you can design your own missions!

Vee

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,201
Re: Design 'City of Heroes: Rebirth'
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2017, 01:29:28 AM »
You will find no better answers in any number of new threads created

But you might catch Clotho. Or at least Rumpelstiltskin.

duane

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 318
Re: Design 'City of Heroes: Rebirth'
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2017, 01:57:19 AM »
But you might catch Clotho. Or at least Rumpelstiltskin.

Atropos Has cut all these threads short and Clotho is past due to spin some new...

The Three Fates are mean

Paragon Avenger

  • Circles and Triangles
  • Elite Boss
  • *
  • Posts: 6,219
  • You're not seeing double, I'm not wearing pants.
    • City of Warcraft or whatever it was called
Re: Design 'City of Heroes: Rebirth'
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2017, 04:01:57 AM »
Super Fire Dragon to the rescue --- no wait.
I don't know when City of Heroes will return, or do I?

Super Firebug

  • New Efforts # 20,000!
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 819
Re: Design 'City of Heroes: Rebirth'
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2017, 02:01:27 AM »
They'd do well to borrow some of CO's improvements, such as more than two colors per costume piece, and more travel-power options (especially line-swinging; once you get the rhythm of it, it's exhilarating). But please, please keep the wide mission ladder that CoX had before free-to-play. I'm still surprised that CoX decided to emulate CO in having a one-lane mission ladder; having every new toon go through the same chain of contacts in Atlas Park gets old REALLY quickly. (I got so bored with it, that I actually started skipping the contacts in AP, and street-hunted until I was able to go to Kings Row and get a radio.) The replayability of having different mission contacts right from the start is part of what made CoX better than CO.
Linux. Because a world without walls or fences won't need Windows or Gates.

princezilla

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 126
Re: Design 'City of Heroes: Rebirth'
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2017, 07:03:56 PM »
They'd do well to borrow some of CO's improvements, such as more than two colors per costume piece, and more travel-power options (especially line-swinging; once you get the rhythm of it, it's exhilarating). But please, please keep the wide mission ladder that CoX had before free-to-play. I'm still surprised that CoX decided to emulate CO in having a one-lane mission ladder; having every new toon go through the same chain of contacts in Atlas Park gets old REALLY quickly. (I got so bored with it, that I actually started skipping the contacts in AP, and street-hunted until I was able to go to Kings Row and get a radio.) The replayability of having different mission contacts right from the start is part of what made CoX better than CO.


Yeah, CO's costume creator is unquestionably the best ever released in any RPG let alone MMO I've ever heard of its something any future superhero game should try to emulate, its really a shame the rest of the game was such a disappointment.

I do get why they did that with the entry arc though, their storytelling standards had risen a good bit since launch so they wanted something more in depth but they knew that most people would powergrind past it in the sewers so they didn't want to waist to much time making more then one arc with a minor branch in the middle.

Zombie Hustler

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 263
Re: Design 'City of Heroes: Rebirth'
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2017, 05:43:12 AM »
The replayability of having different mission contacts right from the start is part of what made CoX better than CO.

Agreed. Even though the new intro was better than the original, the initial story arcs weren't as good as the multiple contacts arcs. I wish they'd have just tuned those up a bit instead of just doing a one-size fits all (though I understand why they did, resource-wise). I liked that different archetypes had different missions in CoH originally, and would have liked to see them expand on that.

Heck, even if they'd gone something more like Praetoria, and allowed Vigilante and Rogue alignments from the outset, and then had different arcs on the respective sides from the start (Villain/Rogue and Hero/Vigilante), and baked in some of the side changing missions like Praetoria did, that would have been cool.

(I know it may not have been as popular among many, but Going Rogue was my favorite all around of the the CoX titles. I just wish the Resistance/Loyalist storylines had been continued through First Ward- and that we'd gotten the Post-Apocalyptic costume pieces that were in the pipeline; those would have fit in perfect there.)

Paragon Avenger

  • Circles and Triangles
  • Elite Boss
  • *
  • Posts: 6,219
  • You're not seeing double, I'm not wearing pants.
    • City of Warcraft or whatever it was called
Re: Design 'City of Heroes: Rebirth'
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2017, 03:46:19 AM »
What if you could have the option of donating your "level-50" toons to the lore of the game?
Once donated, you lose control over that toon, but you do get creatation credit.
The toon becomes an NPC and interacts with players in the game like a contact, trainer, passer-by, victim, co-operative pet or hero gone bad or villian turned good.
You would indicate 2 or 3 preferred options, but all donated toons become the property of the game.
You would supply catch phrases, and favorite zones and other details.

Imagine having to rescue Strange Tactics or Dell.

I and a friend of mine made tributes to the game's NPC, why not the other way around.
I don't know when City of Heroes will return, or do I?

MGLZadok

  • Minion
  • **
  • Posts: 21
Re: Design 'City of Heroes: Rebirth'
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2017, 08:48:05 PM »
I've done this in my head so much since the sunset that I have a random collection of notes, so here goes:

Character Creation

Archetypes
ATs would be based more on combinations of power set types rather than set classes with certain power sets.  Each AT would have an inherent ability, though it could be passive or active.  There would be no "primary/secondary" power sets, so there's only one AT that would combo ranged damage and pets.  This allows to 15 ATs, thought not all might be available at release depending on balancing issues. The power set types would be:
  • Melee Damage
  • Ranged Damage
  • Defense (for self only)
  • Control
  • Support (Includes heals, buffs, and debuffs)
  • Pets
To support the financial system (see below), your first 3 characters can pick from any AT and obtain any two power sets per AT.  After your first 3, all other ATs and Power Sets become locked and would require purchase (but not necessarily real-world money; again, see below)

Costume Creator
This would be a robust system with content constantly being added.  Would include a "tag" system that would allow you to filter by theme (i.e. futuristic, western, retro, etc.).  This is also where power customization (also added regularly) would be done.

Storyline
Picking up after the Rikti invasion of 2012 (because overcoming would be more cathartic than retconning), the Well of the Furies once again sends its power-giving force into the world, creating new heroes.  The prevailing assumption would be that all characters from CoH died fighting the invasion (but who stays dead in the superhero genre?)

Your tutorial would be based on your origin rather than your alignment. Origins would be unchanged.  Science, you escape a lab accident.  Magic, you're trained.  You get the idea.

In-Game Features
Crafting on par with CoH, crafting enhancements and sets based on origin. Tech gets "Augmentations", magic gets "Focuses", etc.

Streamlined super bases to allow more functional usage.  AE would be a part of the base in addition to being in the world (similar to the X-Men Danger Room, but you'd still have the option to access everyone's missions, not just those of your SG), as would teleporters to all zones and Task Forces.  You could hire a contact for repeatable missions exclusive to SGs.  Maybe could even have functionality that all offline members of the SG still walk around just hanging out in the SG (if they log off there).  The main idea of the SG base is a one-stop shop to get to anywhere you need to go and do anything you need to do.  Would take a lot of time and build, but well-established SGs would be living the high-life.  I would also like to see different types of bases.  Tower, underground, underwater, compound, etc.

Task Forces would remain, as would a "sewer run" component for quick leveling.

Leveling would go up to 100 off the bat and never change.  The reason for this would be each power in your set would have 5 ranks that you would have access to level up at varying levels.  Each power set would likely have 15 powers to make it impossible to get everything.  Travel powers would be a part of a power set and each power set would have the ability to use any travel power.  Haven't decided if ancillary pools will exist due to having so much diversity in the ATs.  Leadership skills will go to Pets-based ATs, healing to Support and Defense ATs.  Ranks in powers would affect scaling ratios for power states (damage/accuracy/resistance/defense/etc.) as well as the number of enhancements the power can utilize.

Financial Setup
The time of sub-based MMOs is almost over.  Pretty much every MMO has some sort of free-to-play trial and, unless you established yourself in the era of sub-based MMOs, you can't really build the fan base necessary to make it stable.  People want a WoW-level experience for $15/month and new games have a hard time capturing over a decade of build in the first year or so.  The solution?  Microtransaction.  I know microtransaction has a reputation of making people pay for what should be a complete game and I get that, but Riot has perfected the microtransaction formula for League of Legends and it's easily transferable.

Time and Money (and Influence)
CoH: Rebirth would have 3 currencies specific to any individual player.  SG currency would be different just as it was in CoH.
  • Money represents real-world money that is invested in the game to purchase currency. For now, we'll continue to call them Paragon Points.
  • Time represents the amount of game play you have done on your account.  These points are free and for now we'll call them Action Points.
  • Influence is relatively unchanged.  It is gained on a per-character basis and is used solely for in-game things (buying materials for crafting, buying crafted items, anything your character would need to purchase in-universe).  Influence can NEVER be used to purchase Action Points or Paragon Points as that would break the system since Influence would be transferable.

Paragon Points
Items that are only available for Paragon Points would have ZERO effect on gameplay.  This would not be a pay-to-win scenario.  Convenience powers such as Recall to Base (to get back to SG base quickly) and Recall Team (just as in CoH) would be options.  Costume Pieces and Power Customizations would also fit in this category as they are cosmetic only.  Packaged deals would also take this because it would include only things that could be purchased with PP.  As an example, if a Water Power Set is introduced, we could sell a bundle containing the new power set along with new (and/or old) aquatic-themed costume set(s) as well as all of the launch power customizations for that set.  That way, a player could get the most out of the new set immediately rather than unlocking just the power set with Action Points and purchasing any of the cosmetic items piecemeal.

Action Points
Items available with Action Points would affect multiple characters on your account or just your account.  This would be additional character slots, additional ATs (any added or ones not selected in your first 3 characters), additional power sets (any added to the game after launch or ones not selected in your first 3 characters.)  A lot of items purchasable with Action Points will also be purchasable with Paragon Points for impatient gamers.  Action Points are awarded for completing quests and based on the active game time used from obtaining the mission to completing it, up to a cap (to prevent AFK farming).  This is also when you would get a set influence rate for completing the mission.

This isn't necessarily comprehensive, but it's all I can remember off the top of my head. 
Level 50s (Triumph)
Cybot 27 - Claws/Willpower Scrapper
Thelesis - Mind Control/Electricity Assault Dominator
Al'pha - Arachnos Crab Soldier
Damien Zadok - Soldiers/Pain Domination Mastermind

Paragon Avenger

  • Circles and Triangles
  • Elite Boss
  • *
  • Posts: 6,219
  • You're not seeing double, I'm not wearing pants.
    • City of Warcraft or whatever it was called
Re: Design 'City of Heroes: Rebirth'
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2018, 05:29:17 AM »
I would ditch the incarnate junk.
Make levels 51-60.
Add more accoldes for completing in-game tasks like Task Force Commander.
Promote teaming, but allow solo-ing.
Add more content for rogues and vigilantes.
Add junk dealers where salvage can be purchased for set prices.

I have other ideas, but they are very controveraial like;
Dumping the set IO's, the trouble with set IO's is the steep learning curve.  Also, the rarity of the correct recipe and ingredients made it difficult to just get what you needed through play.  Although possible, most players relied on Wentworth's to get recipes and ingredients.
Dumping Wentworth's, the problem with wentworth's is that we do not have a real ecomony and we end up with hyper-inflation.
I don't know when City of Heroes will return, or do I?

Vee

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,201
Re: Design 'City of Heroes: Rebirth'
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2018, 02:36:19 PM »
I have other ideas, but they are very controveraial like;
Dumping the set IO's, the trouble with set IO's is the steep learning curve.  Also, the rarity of the correct recipe and ingredients made it difficult to just get what you needed through play.  Although possible, most players relied on Wentworth's to get recipes and ingredients.
Dumping Wentworth's, the problem with wentworth's is that we do not have a real ecomony and we end up with hyper-inflation.

I wouldn't last a month with those changes. Am I supposed to Mids around with SOs?

GamingGlen

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 218
Re: Design 'City of Heroes: Rebirth'
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2018, 08:47:26 PM »
I wouldn't last a month with those changes. Am I supposed to Mids around with SOs?

Yes. 

You couldn't play the game before the set IOs came?

Vee

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,201
Re: Design 'City of Heroes: Rebirth'
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2018, 08:53:19 PM »
I didn't, I started ish 12. I wouldn't have lasted long pre-ED. no depth to herd, nuke, repeat.

Nightmarer

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 181
  • We all float down here
Re: Design 'City of Heroes: Rebirth'
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2018, 09:39:52 PM »
Yes. 

You couldn't play the game before the set IOs came?

I could, I just wouldn't want to if they were removed after they were implemented.

Golden Aurora

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 107
Re: Design 'City of Heroes: Rebirth'
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2018, 04:25:00 AM »
I actually played this back in issue 1.
I can tell you for me personally, having no aggro cap and no ED made the game WAY funner.
You felt like a hero being able to aggro as much as you wanted until it was able to kill you.
All ED and the aggro cap did was make the game slower for people.

It's ridiculous to say having ED and an aggro cap made the game have depth.
All it did was eliminate one way of playing it.
I personally enjoyed the progression from starting out barely able to handle mobs.
Then moving on to surviving, to finally flourishing.
There is no other game out there which lets you do that and be a hero to that extent.

But that's a really dead horse. All I can say in the end was pulling massive herds and learning to deal with the mez/damage was really fun.

Vee

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,201
Re: Design 'City of Heroes: Rebirth'
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2018, 01:53:16 PM »
Not saying it wasn't fun, just said it wouldn't have kept me around long. I'd have loved no aggro cap with IO sets. But without Mids and heavy build tweaking and things for all my alts to work toward other than SOs I'd have gotten bored quickly.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2018, 02:00:25 PM by Vee »

AmberOfDzu

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 178
Re: Design 'City of Heroes: Rebirth'
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2018, 06:26:33 PM »
I would want some sort of city-life simulator run behind the scenes, giving life to the city. Spawning NPC's who're actually going from place to place, visiting business, going to and from work, and etc. It would run the trains, buses, police cars, ambulances, fire trucks, and so forth. It would produce the events and emergencies they respond to, and provide for heroes and villains to get involved in them. It would also run the criminal low-life activities; muggings, robberies, arson, gang turf wars, less-random attacks, and so on. It would have random influences and some interconnection complexity, so that it didn't feel like clockwork cycles.

It would create a reasonably well textured background context for the higher level super-hero/villain storylines.

I'd want it to expand on the influence/infamy concepts and make playing your character to concept affect how these sim-citizens and sim-denizens responded to and interacted with the character.

This sounds like a lot to me, but If I get to dream, that's some of what I see.

GamingGlen

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 218
Re: Design 'City of Heroes: Rebirth'
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2018, 07:44:17 PM »
I like it.

It bothered me seeing long lines of pedestrians in Independence Port, yet rarely a soul wandered the streets in Founders' Falls, a place full of residences and shops.  FF seemed like it was a casual Sunday sort of place, but very few people. 

Granted, the alien Rikti in FF looking to turn people into newts might have had something to do with that. :D