Author Topic: Death of a Game: City of Heroes - YouTube @ nerdSlayer  (Read 917 times)

Ultimate15

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Death of a Game: City of Heroes - YouTube @ nerdSlayer
« on: July 15, 2017, 04:16:06 PM »
Howdy, ya'll! Been feeling super nostalgic for COH lately (it hits me in waves - I'll have my good months and my bad months). I came across this video by a Youtuber named @nerdSlayer and thought I'd share it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YahAati0d2c

Many would argue that this is just a compilation of things we already know, information that has already been analyzed and processed, etc - but he organized and collaborated everything in such an easy-to-follow and sensible way. He touches on what made the game so incredible, the history of important/impactful events, the reasoning behind why NCSoft choose to pull the plug, and more.

It made me sentimental, so I figured I'd start a thread :)

Thoughts?

ross134

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Re: Death of a Game: City of Heroes - YouTube @ nerdSlayer
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2017, 04:53:10 PM »
Very good video about the history of our great game.

I never made the connection that the game was shut down around the time GW2 and Blade & Soul were being developed, which makes me even more angry that I was bamboozled into buying GW2 (because at the time I didn't know Arena.net was an NCSoft company).

Also continuing to hear that NCSoft just decided not to deal, and the message they sent to players after deciding to shut the game down, just flat out disgusts me.
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Abraxus

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Re: Death of a Game: City of Heroes - YouTube @ nerdSlayer
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2017, 03:29:31 PM »
If only NCSoft had created an American subsidiary who better understood the market, and not only kept things going, but kept the money rolling in.  Not a partnership development studio like they had, but an entity that actually had operational control over the property, and could do what the local market could have appreciated.  Everyone would have stood to gain.  So long as NCSoft continues to assume they know what works in this market, while really only caring about their local market (since that is their forte, and their bread & butter), their record of failure here will continue.  I would be highly unlikely to try anything they were behind in the future for that reason.  Unless, of course, CoH were to come back in some form, because I love the game more than I dislike them.  I know that could set me up for a huge d*%k punch later on, but it's a risk I would be willing to take just to play again.
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downix

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Re: Death of a Game: City of Heroes - YouTube @ nerdSlayer
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2017, 10:50:11 PM »
I don't think many people have considered the role of the NCSoft subsidiary which directly owned Paragon studios - NC Interactive. It was shut down 30 days after CoH itself was shuttered.

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Re: Death of a Game: City of Heroes - YouTube @ nerdSlayer
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2017, 01:32:14 AM »
Didn't Chris Bruce (Back Alley Brawler) mention in a fairly recent AMA on Reddit that the reason the deal fell apart with Paragon Studios at the last minute was because NCSoft didn't want to include the transfer of player accounts with CoX?

This makes sense, even when looking at other multiplayer RPGs that have gone bust and then come back under a different dev/publisher (Hellgate:  London and A.P.B. come immediately to mind here).  In both those games (which I played when they launched and also when they were rezzed later), once they were rezzed, you had to make a new account and reroll your characters from scratch.  Transferring personal info and bank card #s could become a real hot mess legally.

Now imagine it's the end of 2012, and we as the CoX player base have just been told we'd be losing all our hard-won level 50s, all of our characters really, plus all our vet rewards and cosmetic/cash shop purchases....  Yeah, probably 95% of the players would have freaked and walked out.

This problem is further compounded by the rumor that NCSoft's client login system was ported to many games, not just CoX.  If that was true, they probably wouldn't have wanted to give any of that code away, either.

Believe me, I can't stand NCSoft as much as the next die hard CoX fan, but when you hear hooves, think of horses, not zebras.  C. Bruce's version of events really does make the most sense, not to mention that he was an actual CoX dev, and knew the Paragon devs as the game was closing down.  He was also working for Cryptic (and Jack Emmert) at that time.

downix

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Re: Death of a Game: City of Heroes - YouTube @ nerdSlayer
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2017, 01:38:10 AM »
That is highly probably part of it. I do consider the NC Interactive shutdown also part of it. Recall, Texas changed its tax laws, and starting on January 1, 2013, "digital property" would fall under the new tax code for the prior year. Depending on how this property was defined, and it was very unclear at the time, NCSoft could have been looking at tens of millions in tax liability. Add the difficulty in user transfers, and the negotiations may have simply run out the clock.

Kaos Arcanna

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Re: Death of a Game: City of Heroes - YouTube @ nerdSlayer
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2017, 01:38:59 AM »
Didn't Chris Bruce (Back Alley Brawler) mention in a fairly recent AMA on Reddit that the reason the deal fell apart with Paragon Studios at the last minute was because NCSoft didn't want to include the transfer of player accounts with CoX?

This makes sense, even when looking at other multiplayer RPGs that have gone bust and then come back under a different dev/publisher (Hellgate:  London and A.P.B. come immediately to mind here).  In both those games (which I played when they launched and also when they were rezzed later), once they were rezzed, you had to make a new account and reroll your characters from scratch.  Transferring personal info and bank card #s could become a real hot mess legally.

Now imagine it's the end of 2012, and we as the CoX player base have just been told we'd be losing all our hard-won level 50s, all of our characters really, plus all our vet rewards and cosmetic/cash shop purchases....  Yeah, probably 95% of the players would have freaked and walked out.

This problem is further compounded by the rumor that NCSoft's client login system was ported to many games, not just CoX.  If that was true, they probably wouldn't have wanted to give any of that code away, either.

Believe me, I can't stand NCSoft as much as the next die hard CoX fan, but when you hear hooves, think of horses, not zebras.  C. Bruce's version of events really does make the most sense, not to mention that he was an actual CoX dev, and knew the Paragon devs as the game was closing down.  He was also working for Cryptic (and Jack Emmert) at that time.

Honestly, I could see that being a dealbreaker for some folks. I can remember when talks of another buy-out attempt first surfaced-- two years after the sale?-- that there were people posting who stated they wouldn't play unless they got all their stuff back.

Wonder how many still feel that way five years later on from the shutdown?

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Re: Death of a Game: City of Heroes - YouTube @ nerdSlayer
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2017, 04:47:32 AM »
It's funny, isn't it?  If the shutdown happened yesterday, we'd all flip a table and walk out if we had to start from Level 1.  But today, I don't think anyone would mind starting over.  ...That is, if the game COULD came back.  Personally, I'm of the mind that NCSoft probably deleted the binaries of any server code once the hardware was taken in by the central office to make maintenance mode or resale of the prior service a non-starter. 

No proof, just a feeling.  Absolute conjecture on my part.
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princezilla

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Re: Death of a Game: City of Heroes - YouTube @ nerdSlayer
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2017, 03:05:57 PM »
It's funny, isn't it?  If the shutdown happened yesterday, we'd all flip a table and walk out if we had to start from Level 1.  But today, I don't think anyone would mind starting over.  ...That is, if the game COULD came back.  Personally, I'm of the mind that NCSoft probably deleted the binaries of any server code once the hardware was taken in by the central office to make maintenance mode or resale of the prior service a non-starter. 

No proof, just a feeling.  Absolute conjecture on my part.

Well I know at least one person copied all the data before leaving the studio, including character data. They ran an extremely brief private server that I know a few people who joined but it was abandoned after a few months either because they got caught or were afraid that they might get caught. If it's the latter they might still have the data if anyone ever gets the IP rights however it has been years so who knows if they kept it. Regardless it's a moot point without the game rights.

Ultimate15

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Re: Death of a Game: City of Heroes - YouTube @ nerdSlayer
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2017, 10:37:44 PM »
Well I know at least one person copied all the data before leaving the studio, including character data. They ran an extremely brief private server that I know a few people who joined but it was abandoned after a few months either because they got caught or were afraid that they might get caught. If it's the latter they might still have the data if anyone ever gets the IP rights however it has been years so who knows if they kept it. Regardless it's a moot point without the game rights.

There have been numerous, NUMEROUS rumors ever since the shut down (nearly 5 years ago) of 'private servers' that were running b/c a 'dev had copied all the data', and you had to 'know someone' to even get an invite, etc. I spoke w/ a former Virtue RPer on Champions Online a year or so ago who claimed the same thing you did - they knew someone who had been on the server, but it was kept very hush-hush and confidential, yadda yadda. I can't speak for you personally, but in my opinion... I'm not so sure a private server ever even existed. Unless someone is willing to step forward with time-stamped screen grabs and can say "Yes, I was on it"...then I'm remaining skeptical.

Now imagine it's the end of 2012, and we as the CoX player base have just been told we'd be losing all our hard-won level 50s, all of our characters really, plus all our vet rewards and cosmetic/cash shop purchases....  Yeah, probably 95% of the players would have freaked and walked out.

Eh. I think 95% is kind of an exaggeration. Granted, I think everyone would have been PISSED from even the mere idea of losing all of their characters, as that's obviously not the ideal resolution. I'd also suspect a huge percentage of those players whom would initially walk away from a scenario like that would have eventually come back within the first year or so after having to start over. And that goes with keeping in mind that by 2012, the player population in COH had thinned out somewhat.

Regardless, I agree that we can probably trust what Chris Bruce suggested. He's been one of the few insiders who actually spoke out about what went on behind the scenes (because NCSoft was so infuriatingly vague and nontransparent). He seems like a reliable source.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 10:43:51 PM by Ultimate15 »

princezilla

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Re: Death of a Game: City of Heroes - YouTube @ nerdSlayer
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2017, 04:50:51 AM »
There have been numerous, NUMEROUS rumors ever since the shut down (nearly 5 years ago) of 'private servers' that were running b/c a 'dev had copied all the data', and you had to 'know someone' to even get an invite, etc. I spoke w/ a former Virtue RPer on Champions Online a year or so ago who claimed the same thing you did - they knew someone who had been on the server, but it was kept very hush-hush and confidential, yadda yadda. I can't speak for you personally, but in my opinion... I'm not so sure a private server ever even existed. Unless someone is willing to step forward with time-stamped screen grabs and can say "Yes, I was on it"...then I'm remaining skeptical.

Eh. I think 95% is kind of an exaggeration. Granted, I think everyone would have been PISSED from even the mere idea of losing all of their characters, as that's obviously not the ideal resolution. I'd also suspect a huge percentage of those players whom would initially walk away from a scenario like that would have eventually come back within the first year or so after having to start over. And that goes with keeping in mind that by 2012, the player population in COH had thinned out somewhat.

Regardless, I agree that we can probably trust what Chris Bruce suggested. He's been one of the few insiders who actually spoke out about what went on behind the scenes (because NCSoft was so infuriatingly vague and nontransparent). He seems like a reliable source.

I did see a time/date stamped screenshot from my friend who was on it, however it was abandoned almost immediately in terms of new invites or actual management and the whole thing shut down in less than a year so I don't think it was very thought through and it certainly never had potential to re-establish the community.

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Re: Death of a Game: City of Heroes - YouTube @ nerdSlayer
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2017, 02:55:39 AM »
It's funny, isn't it?  If the shutdown happened yesterday, we'd all flip a table and walk out if we had to start from Level 1.  But today, I don't think anyone would mind starting over.  ...That is, if the game COULD came back.  Personally, I'm of the mind that NCSoft probably deleted the binaries of any server code once the hardware was taken in by the central office to make maintenance mode or resale of the prior service a non-starter. 

No proof, just a feeling.  Absolute conjecture on my part.

I would have started from level 1 the next minute after it got shut down if it means I got to play my favorite game again.

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Re: Death of a Game: City of Heroes - YouTube @ nerdSlayer
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2017, 05:00:32 AM »
I'll be honest, I'd throw a fit initially. 

Okay, maybe for a while. But in time I'd start over.
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Re: Death of a Game: City of Heroes - YouTube @ nerdSlayer
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2017, 04:06:31 PM »
I have seen one invite I believe could be real from a yahoo group and many many many spammers, scammers seeking credit cards or websites with malware that launch on visit regardless of antivirus . Play safe out there kids

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Re: Death of a Game: City of Heroes - YouTube @ nerdSlayer
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2017, 06:54:28 PM »
And let's be honest, using the demorecord feature, or now paragon chat, it would be trivial to fake such a screenshot.

princezilla

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Re: Death of a Game: City of Heroes - YouTube @ nerdSlayer
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2017, 07:44:47 PM »
It was from someone I actually know in real life and trust a lot, and we'll before PC, only a few months after closure. But again it didn't last long and wasn't well handled while it was active.