Author Topic: Star Trek Discovery  (Read 1291 times)

doc7924

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2017, 04:37:04 PM »
It's based on a Ralph McQuarrie concept for what was Star Trek Phase II, I believe.



I have that book that came out 30 -odd years ago on Phase II. That certainly was the new concept for the Enterprise.

It was all green lights for the series when Star Wars blew up in the movies, so they switched gears and dropped Phase II to make the Motionless Picture.

There were even quite a lot of scripts written for Phase II.

Spock wasn't in it, so they had a Vulcan replacement. The same one that was in the TMP scripts until Nimoy decided to do it and he was written out.

Would have been like the new Will and Grace - same cast just like 10 years later.

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2017, 03:48:46 PM »
I watched last night's episode. I did not know the Federation had holodeck abilities pre-TOS. I thought that was a TNG innovation. And, to my horror, the Klingons took an Admiral hostage. So much canon out the window.

doc7924

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2017, 09:05:09 PM »
I watched last night's episode. I did not know the Federation had holodeck abilities pre-TOS. I thought that was a TNG innovation. And, to my horror, the Klingons took an Admiral hostage. So much canon out the window.

While I understand we have better tech now then in 1966, its the one reason I really don't want to watch this.

So much of it is much more advanced then even TNG or DS9 and they were set 100 years after this show.

Let alone the tech they have that's way better then TOS only 10 years in the future.

So to me it just cant fit into the timeline like it should. And hate they changed the Klingons again just because they could. Makes no sense.

MyriVerse

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2017, 09:17:24 PM »
There's a lot of canon bending going on, but nothing really breaking, imo.
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Angel Phoenix77

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2017, 10:39:51 PM »
While I understand we have better tech now then in 1966, its the one reason I really don't want to watch this.

So much of it is much more advanced then even TNG or DS9 and they were set 100 years after this show.

Let alone the tech they have that's way better then TOS only 10 years in the future.

So to me it just cant fit into the timeline like it should. And hate they changed the Klingons again just because they could. Makes no sense.
It's not just you. There is sooooo much that is wrong with this series. Starting from the very first episode to the last.
They seem to be bent on destroying the ST legacy. First the first officer mutinying against the Captain just because she wanted to "protect" the crew. Fine, that is THE same motivation the Captain had. The she is sent to prison, oops she got out and at every chance she rebels.
There is not one reason for them to have holodecks in this timeframe.
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Night-Hawk07

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2017, 05:08:19 AM »
I watched last night's episode. I did not know the Federation had holodeck abilities pre-TOS. I thought that was a TNG innovation. And, to my horror, the Klingons took an Admiral hostage. So much canon out the window.

Which is one among many reasons I cba to watch it. At least JJ was nice enough to start a new reality altogether.

Tahquitz

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2018, 04:07:10 AM »
So, advice ladies and gentlemen: never say never.  I didn't pay for the service, but a co-worker introduced it to me after hours and I've caught up to the current episode.

Well, everyone's right.

Pros:
-- Saru... I like him.  Best new character in the Star Trek universe in a long time.  Just because you've been bred for cowardice doesn't mean you can't be a big damn hero.
-- Lorca is an interesting character.  Without giving too much away (recent episodes have M. Night Shyamalan-esque twists, which is the only clue I'll give.  If MNS makes you revulse, you know what's coming) I'll say he rightfully steals the spotlight a lot in this series.
-- The Discovery itself is improved a lot after the first ship reveal.  It appears smaller than their original design now, has some of the Ralph McQuarrie-ness reduced, and even a 'ring' style saucer making it look more modern.  I do like how they touched it up.  And it's clear that the Discovery isn't intended to be a battle cruiser.  The crew itself seems self-aware that in the beginning, Lorca is forcing the war down their throats, and they resist his inclinations bit by bit to return to their 'explorer' mission they all agreed to pursue.  That alone has me interested in finishing the season.

Nit-picks:
-- The past is really unclear.  The further they go, the harder they'll have to try to not retcon themselves let alone past series on TV.
-- Klingons being different doesn't bother me too much.  What does is that the Klingon arc doesn't garner much empathy from me.  Even facing the tribulations of other houses stomping on the earlier antagonist's work in bringing the houses together, I don't care if they succeed, let alone if the Federation manages a peaceful resolution.   On that note...
-- Empathy is a vulnerability in the cast to me.  Only 2-3 characters I feel any empathy towards concerning their situation.  (Dr. Culber didn't have to try.  And you know how I  regard Saru.  I'll let you guess who #3 is.  It's not who it should be.)  The rest of the cast I have no connection to yet.  For the longest time, this included Michael herself... and recent developments have me watching her fall on my fictitious ladder of trust.  She's not on the bottom rung yet (where one more 'mistake' I perceive and I'm done watching the series period), but she hasn't made it past the halfway point yet where I want her to win.

Cons:
-- Michael is impetulant at times, betraying her Vulcan background.  And for seven years under Georgiou's training, the 'teenage phase' of emotions as a human shouldn't be as odd and uncomfortable as she is now.  So is she a character worth redemption? Time will tell.  I'm going to hold back judgement until the season is over on whether I think Michael is worth watching further until they finish this in a couple of weeks.
-- The technology is the biggest source of discord with past and future Trek shows.  Holodeck before TOS?  An experimental technology which isn't in any other series? (To avoid the episode 3 reveal, that's all I'll say.  If you seen the show, you know what I mean.)  This won't be easy to reconcile, especially with Trekkies.  Some of the most unforgiving fans when it comes to continuity issues.  (Star Wars fans are more forgiving in my experience.)
-- The plot twistiness doesn't let up really.  It's Episode 13, there's two more left, and if they leave the season arc unresolved, that will go a long way in me telling folks whether this show is worth watching further or not.  (If I even smell a deus ex machina coming... I'm done.)

Verdict: Flip a coin.  At the moment, it's probably right either way.

If you like the show, Ars Technica has favorable reviews of some of the episodes, while having fair criticism of the others.  If you loathe it, so does the AV Club.  Find your crowd. :)
« Last Edit: February 02, 2018, 04:38:17 AM by Tahquitz »
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Tahquitz

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2018, 10:02:17 PM »
Episode 15 finished, and AV Club hit it right on the nose.  If you're going to write a TV show backwards (you know the conclusion and make everything else fit that), you have a lot more homework to do than if you wrote it sequentially.

There's no conversation about the series on here, so I'll leave it alone.  For those who don't like the series and stopped watching, the end of season reveal will just irritate further, and there's plenty of websites to read about it on.
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doc7924

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2018, 11:05:40 PM »
Episode 15 finished, and AV Club hit it right on the nose.  If you're going to write a TV show backwards (you know the conclusion and make everything else fit that), you have a lot more homework to do than if you wrote it sequentially.

There's no conversation about the series on here, so I'll leave it alone.  For those who don't like the series and stopped watching, the end of season reveal will just irritate further, and there's plenty of websites to read about it on.

I agree. At least Enterprise tried.

MyriVerse

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2018, 02:43:51 PM »
I thought it was the best Trek since DS9.

But that's not saying a whole lot.

Looking forward to S2.
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hurple

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #30 on: February 13, 2018, 02:49:47 PM »

There is not one reason for them to have holodecks in this timeframe.

Sure there is. 

Do not forget that the Discovery is the place where the federation designs, tests and perfects new tech.  It could be the *only* ship in the federation with a holo-deck. 

Although, it taking 100 years to move from testing to general use seems a bit long...


MyriVerse

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #31 on: February 13, 2018, 06:59:57 PM »
Enterprise introduced the earlier holodecks. So blame that. Klingons were using the Xyrillian designs on their cruisers in the 22nd century.

I can accept us just not seeing their use for practical reasons -- ships being more utilitarian.
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doc7924

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2018, 11:56:26 PM »
Enterprise introduced the earlier holodecks. So blame that. Klingons were using the Xyrillian designs on their cruisers in the 22nd century.

I can accept us just not seeing their use for practical reasons -- ships being more utilitarian.

Except for the fact that in "Encounter at Farpoint" it was made clear this was brand new technology.

Of course the Klingons did get it back in the days of Enterprise.

Now why Starfleet didn't make use of it back then, who knows?

Probably the same geniuses who signed a treaty that every space faring power can use a cloaking device except Starfleet.

« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 12:03:28 AM by doc7924 »

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #33 on: February 14, 2018, 04:01:21 AM »
Except for the fact that in "Encounter at Farpoint" it was made clear this was brand new technology.

Of course the Klingons did get it back in the days of Enterprise.

Now why Starfleet didn't make use of it back then, who knows?

Probably the same geniuses who signed a treaty that every space faring power can use a cloaking device except Starfleet.
The holodeck was called the recreation room on the NCC 1701. https://youtu.be/9eYZRNRqzjg?t=3m28s The TNG version may be a 'new' tech, but not a new idea.
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hurple

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #34 on: February 15, 2018, 02:59:00 PM »
The holodeck was called the recreation room on the NCC 1701. https://youtu.be/9eYZRNRqzjg?t=3m28s The TNG version may be a 'new' tech, but not a new idea.

As often as the holo-deck suffered a glitch that put the whole ship, or essential crew members, in jeopardy, or the holograms escaped and tried to take over the ship... They tech was obviously flawed and should have been abandoned.  It was stupid to keep using it.

 :D :D :D

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #35 on: February 15, 2018, 04:21:10 PM »
As often as the holo-deck suffered a glitch that put the whole ship, or essential crew members, in jeopardy, or the holograms escaped and tried to take over the ship... They tech was obviously flawed and should have been abandoned.  It was stupid to keep using it.

 :D :D :D
LOL, quite true!
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doc7924

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #36 on: February 15, 2018, 06:01:22 PM »
As often as the holo-deck suffered a glitch that put the whole ship, or essential crew members, in jeopardy, or the holograms escaped and tried to take over the ship... They tech was obviously flawed and should have been abandoned.  It was stupid to keep using it.

 :D :D :D

But then they might have had to think of actual plots that involved exploring new planets and new civilizations. You know, like it said in the opening every week.

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #37 on: February 15, 2018, 08:15:32 PM »
But then they might have had to think of actual plots that involved exploring new planets and new civilizations. You know, like it said in the opening every week.
Ooooh, that stings!  :o
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MyriVerse

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #38 on: February 16, 2018, 07:03:31 PM »
But then people complain about "alien of the week" stories.

And then every other one of those stories is something about Prime Directive this or that. Blech.

Personally, I wanted more Moriarty.
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doc7924

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2018, 10:58:37 PM »
But then people complain about "alien of the week" stories.

And then every other one of those stories is something about Prime Directive this or that. Blech.

Personally, I wanted more Moriarty.

Did they ever follow that up in a novel or something?