Author Topic: Thor: Ragnarok  (Read 4763 times)

Kaos Arcanna

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Thor: Ragnarok
« on: November 05, 2017, 11:58:27 PM »
No comments, yet?

I loved it. It was a fun movie.


Spoiler for Hidden:
Did not like how the Warriors Three died such meaningless deaths, and I'm kind of glad Sif didn't show up as that means she can hopefully appear again.

Dev7on

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2017, 02:41:02 PM »
I was planning to see it over the weekend and here's what happened. My family and I went to the AMC movie theater to see Thor: Ragnarok. We go in and the movie is delayed because the projector is broken. 10 minutes later the movie finally came on but, the screen was blurry and it was a 3-D show on the top of that. Most people came out and complained how unwatchable it was even with the 3-D glasses. So the owner made an announcement to cancel the show and gave everyone our refund.  >:( At least we have free passes the next time we go.

CG

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2017, 04:14:31 PM »
I liked it. It certainly wasn't taking itself too seriously.

I was a little surprised at how much the movie differs from the trailers (probably to hide plot points).

Spoiler for Hidden:
Thor missing an eye.
The hammer getting broken in Norway and not NYC
The lightning punch against the Hulk in the arena
Probably more...

Loved seeing Beta Ray Bill's face on the Grandmaster's tower!  Beta Ray Bill is one of my favourites.

Was a little bummed they went with Thor losing an eye.  In the comics Thor loses an arm, but maybe they thought that was a little too Winter Soldier.

Nice to see Thor wise up to Loki's sudden an inevitable betrayal.

Bummed about the Warriors Three getting offed. 

I hope Thor gets another Hammer down the line. It's not Thor without the hammer.  Too bad Vulture is in jail. I'm sure he would have *loved* to salvage some Uru metal!

If they do get their ship to midgard, I would love to see the "Bill son of Bills" storyline as a subplot. 


Vee

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2017, 05:58:44 PM »

Spoiler for Hidden:

Was a little bummed they went with Thor losing an eye.  In the comics Thor loses an arm, but maybe they thought that was a little too Winter Soldier.


Spoiler for Hidden:
Thor gouged them both out at one point in the comicals. Had to one-up his Pops.

Night-Hawk07

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2017, 06:01:01 PM »
I enjoyed it, though the humor felt a little odd compared to the previous Thor movies. Korg was the best.

Spoiler for Hidden:
"Piss off ghost!"

Arcana

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2017, 09:22:29 PM »
Saw Thor Ragnarok over the weekend.

Overall, I'd give it an 8.5 out of 10.  I thought it was the most entertaining of the Thor movies, although each one has its strong points and weak points.


The good:

Both Thor and Captain America: The First Avenger did a good job of bringing the characters "down to earth" to allow them to eventually play on a level playing field for The Avengers.  I liked that Thor Ragnarok tosses that aside and focuses on Thor as a "cosmic" superhero, much as Marvel Comics had their Earth-bound heroes and their more powerful cosmic-level heroes.  Outside of an Avengers-class event, Thor (and the Hulk to some extent) were really out of place alongside Iron Man, Cap, and the likes of Hawkeye, Black Panther, Black Widow, and Spiderman.  Pushing him off into space and into the Ditko-verse made a lot of sense, and allowed Marvel to explore the character more.

I have no idea why Anthony Hopkins was in Transformers The Last Knight but it is obvious why he is in this movie, even in a relatively small role.  It is hard to think of another actor that would provide the gravitas and the dignity to Odin that this movie needed.

A lot of talk was made about this movie being like a "road trip movie" with Thor and the Hulk, but in my opinion this movie had more in common with buddy cop movies like Lethal Weapon.  The interplay between Hulk and Thor fit the atmosphere of the movie well in my opinion.

The brother to brother interplay between Thor and Loki was also great.  They really felt like brothers.  Brothers who loved each other and also hated each other, which is probably half the brothers in existence.

I personally liked Karl Urban's Skurge.  It was a small part, and it was perhaps a bit cliche, but I felt Urban did a good job with imbuing that character with the right amount of tragedy.  He's an Asgardian that lives in a world with Thor and Odin and Heimdall and just wants a chance to prove he can be of value, and then Hela comes along and basically offers him that chance.

Spoiler for Hidden:
Of course, Hela ultimately misreads him: he doesn't just want to be of value to anyone, he wants to be of value to his people, and ultimately makes that choice when confronted with it.


The Meh:

I had no problems with the character of Valkyrie or the actress, but I feel there was more there that could have been explored.  Perhaps delving too deeply in her backstory would detract too much from the tone of the main story, but still.  Also:

Spoiler for Hidden:
In another movie contrasting Valkyire with Skurge would have been an interesting counterplay and connected the two main storylines more strongly

As much as some people complained Jeff Goldblum was too much Jeff Goldblum, I thought that there was perhaps not enough Jeff Goldblum compared to, say, the Collector.  Although it will be interesting to see if the MCU every puts them into the same room, given their comic backstories.

I kinda saw the finale from a mile away, although it didn't hurt my enjoyment of the movie overall.


The WTF:

How many Asgardians are there?  Like, to start, and now?  Spoiler-free statement: really?

Heimdall seemed to get his ass kicked a little too easily at the end.

Why does "the anus" connect to Asgard?  Does Asgard occupy a special place in existence even outside the nine realms?

Why was Hela so powerful so soon after being released?  If her power works as described by Odin, it doesn't seem reasonable that she would be as powerful as she was when she first encounters Thor.


Definitely recommend.  MCU fans seem to like it and even non-MCU fans seem to be finding it enjoyable.  If this is the start of the Marvel Cosmic Cinematic Universe, to add to the Guardians of the Galaxy and to lead up to the cosmic battles of the Infinity War, that promises to be interesting.

Marvel continues to show that their corporate suits understand what they are doing much better than everyone else's corporate suits.  Certainly, Marvel Studios is not an art house production studio, and they wield the same iron fist that Warners, say, does - perhaps even more.  But they keep laying the groundwork for the future, they keep injecting new life into their cinematic universe, and they keep making superheroes the seasoning of the movies not the core foundation.  Different movies are allowed to be not just superficially different but different in tone and trope.  Marvel has heist movies (AntMan) and spy thrillers (Winter Soldier) and period pieces (First Avenger) and straight up action ensembles (The Avengers).  Even flawed movies like Age of Ultron are still heavily character driven and keep the focus on the beliefs and motivations of the main characters.  Ragnarok shows they are willing to change directions when they feel it will help a franchise, and willing to overturn the apple cart and make dramatic changes to the world their characters inhabit.

There are people who say, as is their right, that all Marvel movies are the same boring thing.  To that I point to Winter Soldier, I point to Ant Man, I point to Dr. Strange.  I will now also be pointing to Thor Ragnarok.  And I'm not even sure what kind of movie I would describe it as.  Action-Comedy-Adventure?  The non-Asgardian parts almost felt like it was taking place on the Discworld.

Arcana

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2017, 09:24:36 PM »
Spoiler for Hidden:
Thor gouged them both out at one point in the comicals. Had to one-up his Pops.

Spoiler for Hidden:
I think they were going for the "King Thor" look where Thor is revealed in the future to eventually become king of Asgard and resemble his father Odin, with beard and loss of one eye.  Cyclic history is a part of the Norse mythos, including the premise of Ragnarok itself.

ryuplaneswalker

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2017, 03:09:04 AM »
Quote
Marvel has heist movies (AntMan) and spy thrillers (Winter Soldier) and period pieces (First Avenger) and straight up action ensembles (The Avengers).  Even flawed movies like Age of Ultron are still heavily character driven and keep the focus on the beliefs and motivations of the main characters.  Ragnarok shows they are willing to change directions when they feel it will help a franchise, and willing to overturn the apple cart and make dramatic changes to the world their characters inhabit.

This, this right here is what makes the MCU really work, In this year we have gotten.

"Highschool Musical..but with Spiderman."
"A Man comes to terms with the Biological Father who abandoned him, The Parental Father who kidnapped him from his home, but could not hand him over to be murdered, and deciding that the place that he belongs is with the family who accepted him for who he is, not the one related to him by blood."
"The Final Leg of the journey of a Man from Arrogant Bloodthirsty Warrior, to Wise King."

Edit : I lost my point in all of that, The variance in story is what is making MCU really work, even if it is something you aren't sure you will be into Genre wise, you know that an MCU Movie/Show is a worst going to be passable, I WISH Star Wars would have done this instead of "2 Movies of Blhargleblarge SKYWALKERS!!!!! A movie that is a prequel to Episode 4...and another Movie that will be a prequel to Episode 4"

Arcana

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2017, 03:20:22 AM »
This, this right here is what makes the MCU really work, In this year we have gotten.

"Highschool Musical..but with Spiderman."
"A Man comes to terms with the Biological Father who abandoned him, The Parental Father who kidnapped him from his home, but could not hand him over to be murdered, and deciding that the place that he belongs is with the family who accepted him for who he is, not the one related to him by blood."
"The Final Leg of the journey of a Man from Arrogant Bloodthirsty Warrior, to Wise King."

Edit : I lost my point in all of that, The variance in story is what is making MCU really work, even if it is something you aren't sure you will be into Genre wise, you know that an MCU Movie/Show is a worst going to be passable, I WISH Star Wars would have done this instead of "2 Movies of Blhargleblarge SKYWALKERS!!!!! A movie that is a prequel to Episode 4...and another Movie that will be a prequel to Episode 4"

I think what ultimately makes the Marvel movies work is that they take the time to make you care what happens to the characters first, then make crazy stuff happen to the characters.  They don't always succeed for every viewer, but they keep trying.  And maybe that becomes a little formulaic, but formulas are not good or bad, they are just tools.

doc7924

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2017, 11:38:11 PM »
I think what ultimately makes the Marvel movies work is that they take the time to make you care what happens to the characters first, then make crazy stuff happen to the characters.  They don't always succeed for every viewer, but they keep trying.  And maybe that becomes a little formulaic, but formulas are not good or bad, they are just tools.

That was always the appeal of Marvel comics in the early 60's and even later - they were real people with real emotions and real life problems that just happened to have super powers.

And those little character moments like in Ultron with them trying to lift Thor's hammer at the party or the farm scene makes us feel these are real people.


Arcana

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2017, 12:31:35 AM »
That was always the appeal of Marvel comics in the early 60's and even later - they were real people with real emotions and real life problems that just happened to have super powers.

And those little character moments like in Ultron with them trying to lift Thor's hammer at the party or the farm scene makes us feel these are real people.

One real genius element of Thor Ragnarok in my opinion is that it deepens the relationship between Thor and Loki in a very interesting way that may pay dividends down the road.  It is easy to think of Loki as the best Marvel "villain" but Ragnarok reminds us that Loki isn't a villain.  He is an antagonist.  We're reminded that when Loki tried to take over the Earth and stabbed Thor in the chest, when Loki took over Asgard and hid Odin, when Loki tried to fake an invasion of Asgard to prove himself worthy to rule, these all sound like monsterous acts but they are just a continuation of the constant back and forth between Thor and Loki as long as they've been alive.  Brothers bicker and brothers fight, but when the brothers are one of the most powerful beings in the universe and one of the most devilishly clever tricksters, those brotherly antics take on a cosmic level of effect.  Even after everything that has happened Odin still sees Loki as a beloved son.

These are definitely not normal people, they live on a completely different level than we do.  But they still behave as we do, and have our problems, and our foibles.  Ragnarok will make people see Loki completely differently because they will always think about "get help" and remember that Loki is not an evil being, he is the black sheep of an extremely powerful family and that makes his actions and motivations a lot more interesting to ponder.

Tenzhi

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2017, 03:37:48 AM »
Just saw this today... man...  I liked the previous two Thor movies, but this one... it was a glorious, rollicking good time.  The only complaint I might make is that it was too bad they couldn't have Ben Affleck doing the Thor cameo alongside Matt Damon's Loki.

And I liked that while Hela was a little two dimensional, they gave her lackey Skurge a bit of redeeming character. 

I was also going to ramble on about how Thor and Loki's relationship matured a bit, and how great their brotherly interplay was, but I think that's been adequately covered.

In other Marvel news, I keep forgetting that Black Panther is on its way.  When the trailer started playing I was wondering what it was, then the ship flew out towards a giant cat base in the side of a mountain and my brain excitedly said "Thundercats?!"

EDIT: Hey.  Wait.  I've got a new complaint.  They did overuse Led Zeppelin's cover of the Get Smart theme.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 04:03:58 AM by Tenzhi »
When you insult someone by calling them a "pig" or a "dog" you aren't maligning pigs and dogs everywhere.  The same is true of any term used as an insult.

Dev7on

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2017, 04:18:43 AM »
Ok, I FINALLY got a chance to Thor: Ragnarok and I would to say it's the best Thor movie of the franchise but, not the best Marvel movie in the MCU. What I like about the movie is that it keeps catching me by surprise.
Spoiler for Hidden:
I didn't expect Thor to lose his eye.
My favorite characters are The Grandmaster, Hulk, and Valkyrie. I also didn't expect Hulk having full conversations with Thor. Hela is one the better Marvel villains they have so far. I wish they could've done more screen with Hela. I was actually invest with her motivation. I think The Grandmaster and Hela are going to appear in Infinity War. The Grandmaster is The Collector's brother and Hela is the Goddess of Death.

Dev7on

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2017, 04:21:47 AM »
cameo alongside Matt Damon's Loki.

That was Matt Damon?! I didn't even realize that was him.

Tenzhi

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2017, 08:10:17 AM »
I thought Hela was a bit one dimensional. She didn't have much in the way of motivation.  She was going to be the ruler of Asgard because... power? Daddy issues?  It didn't matter, she wasn't there to have motivations, but rather to be a motivational force.
When you insult someone by calling them a "pig" or a "dog" you aren't maligning pigs and dogs everywhere.  The same is true of any term used as an insult.

Arcana

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2017, 11:23:02 PM »
I thought Hela was a bit one dimensional. She didn't have much in the way of motivation.  She was going to be the ruler of Asgard because... power? Daddy issues?  It didn't matter, she wasn't there to have motivations, but rather to be a motivational force.

Simplified to avoid spoilers, but her motivation was that she was cast out by Odin after doing all his dirty work.

What I liked about her was that she contrasted with Thor and Loki in embracing her nature.  The movie is in part about Thor "finding himself" and embracing his true nature.  In part it is about Thor recognizing what Loki's true nature really is.  But Hela seems to have always known her true nature.  She was born to be the bringer of death and destruction, and initially she indulged that nature.  Odin tolerated it while it was useful, then banished her when it was not.

At least, that's how I imagine she sees it.

Tenzhi

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2017, 02:05:55 AM »
Like I said: daddy issues.  Although it doesn't really make sense as a motivation to become the ruler of Asgard.  If she were really embracing her nature while being ticked off about being discarded by her father, she should've forgone the pretense of ruling Asgard in favour of simply destroying it.  Best not to think about it.  Just accept her as Thor's impetus and move on.
When you insult someone by calling them a "pig" or a "dog" you aren't maligning pigs and dogs everywhere.  The same is true of any term used as an insult.

Arcana

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2017, 03:26:12 AM »
Like I said: daddy issues.  Although it doesn't really make sense as a motivation to become the ruler of Asgard.  If she were really embracing her nature while being ticked off about being discarded by her father, she should've forgone the pretense of ruling Asgard in favour of simply destroying it.  Best not to think about it.  Just accept her as Thor's impetus and move on.

She was killing everyone who refused to follow her, so I think she was embracing her nature just fine.  The Goddess of death doesn't have to literally kill everything she runs into any more than she has to be compelled to commit suicide when she's alone.

She couldn't destroy Asgard itself because that was supposedly the source of her power.  But she could kill everyone in it who she didn't like, and at the end of the movie she seemed prepared to kill all of the remaining surviving Asgardians.

She wants to rule Asgard because that is her home.  But she seemed willing to rule it while sitting on a big pile of bodies if necessary.

Tenzhi

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2017, 07:28:35 AM »
But it wasn't her home.  She spent a fair amount of time essentially complaining about (or being confronted with) how not-her-home it was.  But she apparently didn't have any concept of how to make it her home beyond her answer for just about everything - destructively lashing out.  Because she was a one note villain with just slightly more personality than a sky portal.  Which was fine, because she didn't need to have character - she was just there to set Thor on a path and then wait for him at the end of the path.  If not for Skurge the incompetent weasel, the reminder-of-the-goal intermissions would've been more tedious.  But the writers knew that Hela needed a surrogate personality if those bits of padding weren't going to drag.  Hooray writers.
When you insult someone by calling them a "pig" or a "dog" you aren't maligning pigs and dogs everywhere.  The same is true of any term used as an insult.

Arcana

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2017, 09:57:24 PM »
But it wasn't her home.  She spent a fair amount of time essentially complaining about (or being confronted with) how not-her-home it was.  But she apparently didn't have any concept of how to make it her home beyond her answer for just about everything - destructively lashing out.  Because she was a one note villain with just slightly more personality than a sky portal.  Which was fine, because she didn't need to have character - she was just there to set Thor on a path and then wait for him at the end of the path.  If not for Skurge the incompetent weasel, the reminder-of-the-goal intermissions would've been more tedious.  But the writers knew that Hela needed a surrogate personality if those bits of padding weren't going to drag.  Hooray writers.

For a one note villain, you've already acknowledged three notes: she has "daddy issues" and resents Odin and by proxy his other children, she only knows how to deal with her problems by lashing out with destruction and death and she bemoans the fact that Asgard has been turned into a peaceful mockery of the kingdom she knew and wants to return it to something that reflects her personality but isn't equipped to do that effectively.