Author Topic: Justice League (Possible Spoilers)  (Read 21280 times)

doc7924

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,315
Re: Justice League (Possible Spoilers)
« Reply #60 on: November 30, 2017, 07:38:59 PM »
Just finished watching Crisis On Earth-X.

I think the WB-DC film unit should feel ashamed they just their asses handed to them by the TV shows. 

THAT was a better "Justice League" movie than the actual Justice League movie.

Far better.

to quote the Three Stooges - "Soitenly"

And I bet it didn't cost $300 million to make.

They probably would have made more money editing this to like two and a half hours and showing this.

DC has real problems making films these days. I think they are too busy making their heroes 'dark' and 'gritty' and nothing in between.

Marvel has a great balance in their films between the drama, characters, humor, action. Some films lean a little more towards one then the other, but overall they are fun, action packed, character driven films.




Golden Girl

  • One Liners and Winky Faces
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,242
    • Heroes and Villains
Re: Justice League (Possible Spoilers)
« Reply #61 on: November 30, 2017, 09:42:09 PM »
Well, DCTV is made by people who love comics, DC movies aren't.
"Heroes and Villains" website - http://www.heroes-and-villains.com
"Heroes and Villains" on Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/HeroesAndVillainsMMORPG
"Heroes and Villains" on Twitter - https://twitter.com/Plan_Z_Studios
"Heroes and Villains" teaser trailer - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnjKqNPfFv8
Artwork - http://goldengirlcoh.deviantart.com

Golden Girl

  • One Liners and Winky Faces
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,242
    • Heroes and Villains
Re: Justice League (Possible Spoilers)
« Reply #62 on: December 08, 2017, 12:44:42 AM »
The Titanic's deck-chairs are getting another shuffle after the Justice League disaster - www.variety.com/2017/film/news/dc-films-justice-league-1202632214/
« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 01:29:53 AM by Golden Girl »
"Heroes and Villains" website - http://www.heroes-and-villains.com
"Heroes and Villains" on Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/HeroesAndVillainsMMORPG
"Heroes and Villains" on Twitter - https://twitter.com/Plan_Z_Studios
"Heroes and Villains" teaser trailer - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnjKqNPfFv8
Artwork - http://goldengirlcoh.deviantart.com

Arcana

  • Sultaness of Stats
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,672
Re: Justice League (Possible Spoilers)
« Reply #63 on: December 08, 2017, 02:18:00 AM »
The Titanic's deck-chairs are getting another shuffle after the Justice League disaster - www.variety.com/2017/film/news/dc-films-justice-league-1202632214/

It sounds like Warner is trying to take some lessons from Disney.  Disney put the movies into the hands of someone familiar with the material and vested in the success of them but *not* beholden to the dictates of the source material.  Kevin Feige likes and understands the comics, but doesn't want the MCU to be a controlled offshoot from them like Marvel Entertainment did.  Warner seems to have gone in two opposite yet similarly unfortunate directions: trying to make them completely independent of DC oversight with Zach Snyder, and then putting them directly into the control of DC with Geoff Johns.  They need to find someone like Feige that loves the material but isn't controlled by the material. 

DC actually did this first with Bruce Timm and the DCAU: someone that loved the material but wasn't owned by the material and could craft something new.  The DCEU needs a Timm or a Feige, someone who believes in the long term future of the franchise rather than just the success of the next movie.  Someone willing to hit singles to load the bases rather than someone who keeps swinging for the fences and whiffing.

Man of Steel, for all its faults, is a decent effort at trying to build something new.  BvS is an attempt to swing for the fences, wasting your one and only chance to incorporate a confrontation between your two biggest marque characters before you've even properly delivered them to your audiences.  And then Justice League tries to swing for the fences again, wasting your one and only chance to unite the JL for the first time before we even know who all the Leaguers are and *while* Superman is dead.  They keep trying to tell punchlines with no set up.

The biggest complaint about Marvel has always been that everything had to be connected and everything had to sell the next thing and nothing had the freedom to be an independent movie and we're all going to get exhausted by all these Marvel movies they think they are going to make year after year after year.  But they believed in the future, and they are getting the rewards for having foresight.

When you consider that they are even *thinking* about making the first solo Flash movie about Flashpoint?  You're going to reset the DCEU before its even been established? I know some are saying it is the perfect opportunity to reboot everything that isn't working well, but once again you are taking a pivotal event in the DC universe and using it as a throw away premise with no build up.  Who cares if the Flash ruins the DCEU when no one cares about the DCEU?

Flashpoint, Tower of Babel, DC has tons of great story ideas to mine.  But they only matter if they sit on a good foundation.  You can do great things with them if you have that foundation.  Or you can throw them into the wind and think people will care about them just because they are important in the comic books.  Like Batman fighting Superman.  One of the most important things to happen in all of comic books in the 80s, and not a particularly interesting thing that happens in BvS.

It sounds commercial and crass, but the difference between Disney and Warner is that to Warner, these are just movies.  Movies that leverage their DC comics intellectual property.  But that's not what they are to Disney.  Disney did not buy Marvel or Lucasfilms or Muppets or Pixar to just make some movies.  To Disney, these are properties that they expect to nurture and commercialize for decades.  Marvel makes a couple movies a year, but Disney intends to make lunchboxes and TV tie ins and theme park rides and LEGO licensed toys for the next hundred years.  Disney is willing to invest not just money but more importantly time to nurture these properties.  Because they don't care how much money Black Panther makes in 2018.  They care how much money the MCU is going to make for them in the entire 21st century.

LateNights

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 388
Re: Justice League (Possible Spoilers)
« Reply #64 on: December 08, 2017, 05:59:02 AM »
You know what's funny - they marketed JL with the tag line "you can't save the world alone"!!

Ironically, they need two or three decent Superman movies to set the stage for everyone else...

That said, I didn't dislike the movies, but they really aren't on the level they could be - Superman is the most easily identifiable hero in existence - but he's second on the big screen to Batman!?!

(And that doesn't even begin to take into account the gap between Superman's mainstream recognition vs the Marvel lineup, at least up until Marvel started making fun movies.)

Part of the problem with Superman movies is we continually get a rehash of "look, Superman's a nice guy", which makes a boring movie because literally everyone knows that already - it's time they just made a movie about Superman kicking some badguys backside - like an "action" movie maybe...

Then, just sprinkle a bunch of cameos into that movie (or two), to establish a shared universe.

As Arcana says, instead they've all bar wasted what was potentially a great cast with some really odd choices.

Taceus Jiwede

  • Time Traveler
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 978
Re: Justice League (Possible Spoilers)
« Reply #65 on: December 08, 2017, 07:34:24 AM »
I had the same opinion I have of all the other recent DC Movies [With the exception of suicide squad because a blind man could tell it was gonna be awful] it was just tooooo damnnnnn boring.

I don't mind boring as long as there is a good plot or dialogue...but...you know...there wasn't

Arcana

  • Sultaness of Stats
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,672
Re: Justice League (Possible Spoilers)
« Reply #66 on: December 12, 2017, 09:17:41 PM »
Part of the problem with Superman movies is we continually get a rehash of "look, Superman's a nice guy", which makes a boring movie because literally everyone knows that already - it's time they just made a movie about Superman kicking some badguys backside - like an "action" movie maybe...

I think you want to be true to the fundamental nature of the character, but tell a new story.  That's why I think for all its faults Man of Steel had a really good idea going that they didn't execute as well as they could have, but should not have abandoned so quickly with BvS.  MoS tells the story of how the DCEU's Superman becomes Superman: it is an original origin story, where Superman doesn't just fall into becoming Superman, but instead spends years wandering the world trying to find his place, doing some good along the way but not knowing his true potential.

This idea that the truth, justice, red, white, and blue Superman was something Clark had to learn on his own is an interesting idea.  In MoS, Clark isn't just brought up to be a good guy, he is brought up by a father who is genuinely afraid of how the world will view him, and that creates conflict in Clark who doesn't know if he should hide from the world or use his powers publicly to serve mankind.

This could have set up a very interesting idea in the DCEU: Superman Year One.  How do you reconcile the boy scout good guy with the real world.  Nolan asked that very question in his Dark Knight series and came up with a unique take on the Batman.  In Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy, the Batman is a much more literal invention of Bruce Wayne: a symbol he first creates, then embodies, and then eventually lets go all in the service of helping Gotham City.  In the comics and in other media, Bruce Wayne is shown to be unique in different ways: his dedication, his intelligence, his drive, his monomaniacal focus on his version of justice.  In Nolan's movies, Bruce Wayne is shown to be unique in a kind of George Washington way: he has the ability to assume this enormous power as the Batman, and then he is ultimately willing to give it up when that power is no longer needed.  The Batman becomes what the movies told us all along he would become: a symbol that transcends the man.

The DCEU needs to create its own take on Superman in the same way to make audiences want to know more about him, and care about what happens to him in the movies.

ryuplaneswalker

  • New Efforts # 17,000!
  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 190
Re: Justice League (Possible Spoilers)
« Reply #67 on: January 21, 2018, 01:58:41 PM »
So, we live in a timeline where a Jumanji starring THE ROCK...out performed Justice League in the Box Office.

saipaman

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 921
Re: Justice League (Possible Spoilers)
« Reply #68 on: January 21, 2018, 05:41:31 PM »
Paddington Bear 2 was a better movie then Justice League.

Tenzhi

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,677
    • My DeviantArt Page
Re: Justice League (Possible Spoilers)
« Reply #69 on: January 21, 2018, 05:42:32 PM »
So, we live in a timeline where a Jumanji starring THE ROCK...out performed Justice League in the Box Office.

To be fair, it *was* starring THE ROCK.  And it looked pretty fun in the trailers.
When you insult someone by calling them a "pig" or a "dog" you aren't maligning pigs and dogs everywhere.  The same is true of any term used as an insult.

doc7924

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,315
Re: Justice League (Possible Spoilers)
« Reply #70 on: January 21, 2018, 06:33:55 PM »
To be fair, it *was* starring THE ROCK.  And it looked pretty fun in the trailers.

Well that may bode well for the Black Adam film.

I love the Rock. Started out in the WWF as Rocky Maivia and every one HATED him. And not hated him like a heel - hated him.

Eventually when he turned heel and started just being "The Rock" - the fans took to him.

Wrestlers are actors - some a lot better then others. And he just has a gift. And I understand in real life he is a super nice guy to boot.

ryuplaneswalker

  • New Efforts # 17,000!
  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 190
Re: Justice League (Possible Spoilers)
« Reply #71 on: January 22, 2018, 12:57:34 AM »
Well that may bode well for the Black Adam film.

I love the Rock. Started out in the WWF as Rocky Maivia and every one HATED him. And not hated him like a heel - hated him.

Eventually when he turned heel and started just being "The Rock" - the fans took to him.

Wrestlers are actors - some a lot better then others. And he just has a gift. And I understand in real life he is a super nice guy to boot.

I am not saying that The Rock is a bad actor, not by a long shot (I actually remember the exact moment "THE ROCK" as a character was created), he has just been in some really poor movies, if Ten Years ago I said "A Jumanji reboot with The Rock in it will out perform Justice League." I would have gotten laughed out of town :P

hurple

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 595
Re: Justice League (Possible Spoilers)
« Reply #72 on: January 22, 2018, 02:33:52 PM »
Paddington Bear 2 was a better movie then Justice League.

Crisis on Earth X was a better Justice League movie than the Justice League movie...

hurple

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 595
Re: Justice League (Possible Spoilers)
« Reply #73 on: January 22, 2018, 03:07:11 PM »
I am not saying that The Rock is a bad actor, not by a long shot (I actually remember the exact moment "THE ROCK" as a character was created), he has just been in some really poor movies, if Ten Years ago I said "A Jumanji reboot with The Rock in it will out perform Justice League." I would have gotten laughed out of town :P

He's also been in some really good movies.  But, not many...




doc7924

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,315
Re: Justice League (Possible Spoilers)
« Reply #74 on: January 22, 2018, 03:47:57 PM »
He's also been in some really good movies.  But, not many...

Certainly more the Hulk Hogan. Roddy Piper should have had a much better movie career then he did. He was a great actor and a funny guy as well.


AmberOfDzu

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 179
Re: Justice League (Possible Spoilers)
« Reply #75 on: March 17, 2018, 02:06:26 AM »
I've finally seen this movie, and it does feel ... impatient. It does jump along to things too quickly, imo. They do lose opportunities to do character development, and without it, each of the new team members feels flat and uninteresting -- they are just collections of their spoken lines. The potential seems to be there for them, but the film doesn't explore it.

The movie seems not to fit together well to me, but I can't put my finger on the details. Generally, it's the color, the action, the timing, the effects; there's moments, but they don't rise very far. The previews show the scenes better than the movie does, such as the early scene with Wonder Woman spoiling the bomb attack at the bank.

The plot was too simple. If BvS was too complicated, and the editing dropped too much of it for most audiences to follow, this one was too simple. There could have been dramatic build-up, but instead, it's boom! and the big bad is all over the screen. There's too much action in it, and not enough storytelling. I don't get the storytelling such as it is, either; as was mentioned up-thread, this was their one and only chance to put the team together, and it was not very interesting. A few minutes' worth of previews told it better, again.

To me, not being a comics expert, the real draw of any movie is the story and character development. No movie without it can succeed, and no movie with it can fail. Good stories let me overlook terrible vfx and camera shooting. Bad storytelling can't be saved by anything else. One story I've looked for all these movies to tell is why is Superman such a good person? The first movie touched in it here and there, but it could have been the centerpiece of the plot. They've had three movies to explain that to me, and I still don't see a compelling reason for it.

I'm sure they'll make more movies just out of momentum, but I'm afraid they're going to go like the Batman movies back in the '90's did.

Golden Girl

  • One Liners and Winky Faces
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,242
    • Heroes and Villains
Re: Justice League (Possible Spoilers)
« Reply #76 on: March 18, 2018, 04:42:45 PM »
The new Infinity War trailer highlights just how hopelessly incompetent WB's handling of the DC IP has been - and going to be an amusingly suitable punishment for them that if Darkseid ever shows up in a movie, the majority of the audience are going to think that he's a rip-off of Thanos.
"Heroes and Villains" website - http://www.heroes-and-villains.com
"Heroes and Villains" on Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/HeroesAndVillainsMMORPG
"Heroes and Villains" on Twitter - https://twitter.com/Plan_Z_Studios
"Heroes and Villains" teaser trailer - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnjKqNPfFv8
Artwork - http://goldengirlcoh.deviantart.com

saipaman

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 921
Re: Justice League (Possible Spoilers)
« Reply #77 on: March 18, 2018, 04:52:46 PM »
I've reached the point that I'm watching Marvel trailers to see how good the movies are going to be and watching DC trailers to see how bad the movies are going to be.  I'm sure I'm not alone in that position.


doc7924

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,315
Re: Justice League (Possible Spoilers)
« Reply #78 on: March 18, 2018, 11:29:39 PM »
The new Infinity War trailer highlights just how hopelessly incompetent WB's handling of the DC IP has been - and going to be an amusingly suitable punishment for them that if Darkseid ever shows up in a movie, the majority of the audience are going to think that he's a rip-off of Thanos.

The major thing I think Marvel does right is that these feel like real people who just happen to have super powers. (Which was Stan Lee's idea with the FF and Spider-man and others when he created them)

DC is like playing Mortal Kombat - all big fights and effects but no real characterization.


hurple

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 595
Re: Justice League (Possible Spoilers)
« Reply #79 on: March 22, 2018, 01:33:05 PM »
You know what's funny - they marketed JL with the tag line "you can't save the world alone"!!

Ironically, they need two or three decent Superman movies to set the stage for everyone else...

Part of the problem with Superman movies is we continually get a rehash of "look, Superman's a nice guy", which makes a boring movie because literally everyone knows that already - it's time they just made a movie about Superman kicking some badguys backside - like an "action" movie maybe...


I think even more of a problem with Superman on the big screen, and to some extent TV, is that they continually make him WAY too powerful for anything to be even a remote threat to him.  That's why the Man of Steel movie had to start with the first villains Superman faces are the exiled Kryptonians (which kinda ruins the whole Superman as last Kryptonian thing, doesn't it?)

 Just like Justice League and Flashpoint, that is a story that needs built to, not to open with.

Byrne had the right idea in the comics when he relaunched Superman in the 80's... Tone down the powers to a more reasonable level, where the climax to the film doesn't have to be Superman literally stopping an earthquake!