Author Topic: What would you build?  (Read 1253 times)

Xev

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What would you build?
« on: June 02, 2018, 05:46:30 PM »
OK, so, it's been more than a few years.. I need to hit Anandtech and whoever else knows something about building PC's, it's getting to be that time again.. Anything special I need to know about anything that's changed in the last, ohhh 10 years or so?

The only thing I can think of that I'd want to migrate is my Pcie video (it's fairly fast and isn't being dropped from support anytime soon) and display. Everything else is too out of date.

I plan to get a cheap USB hard drive, migrate my old stuff (no programs) to it, build the new macheen, then dump all my old junk back on it, re-install whatever, and go about my merry way for the next X amount of years. Hopefully far fewer than this time.

Any bus changes I need to know about...? Any processors that are just that good or bad, to mention? What's good memory to buy, now, speed/cost-wise?

What's the best bang for your buck parts out there, right now?

I'll be getting a Megabyte motherboard. Of what flavor I have no idea. I just like Megabyte due to they make solid non-flexing boards with solid components.

I'll be getting AMD, for a processor. I haven't bought IBM since... the early 386 days, and, I got a steal on a pre-built, once, like 15 or so years ago. IBM really holds no appeal whatsoever, to me, ever since the AMD 386-40(MHz). Personal thing.

Windows 10.. Just because, why get anything older. Or.. does 10 suck? Haven't tried it and I don't need any of the new features (based on the fact that I'm perfectly happy atm with ancient version 7). But. Buying anything but the latest operating system (unless it's super new and everyone is having probs) would be going against nature. Mine, anyway.

Memory... I don't care. Whoever is making reliable, cheap, memory. Dunno how fast it should be or what I need to know about what kind of slot it needs.

I have a place to shop local, for a case, but if someone really wants to share their great experience with a case maker online....

Power supply? 500 watts still get me by? I need to know anything special, here?

OH! duh. The thing I definitely know I want and definitely know I don't know how to shop for... SSD drives.. They have fiiiiinally come down in price which is one of the reasons I'm finally upgrading my PC.

What else... Did I forget anything?





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Exxar

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Re: What would you build?
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2018, 11:25:29 PM »
Personally I can heartily recommend Win 10, haven't had any problems with them and have been using them since they've been released, first at work and later also at home.

The best bang for my buck when I built my current PC last year, was an M2 SSD. "Standard" SSDs are SATA, M2 is a new thingy whereby you plug the disk directly into the motherboard which is hence noticeably faster than SATA SSDs. You of course also have a mobo which supports it. Having my loading times cut to a fraction of what they were before has completely transformed my gaming experience, even if I did go from an average of 20 FPS to 60 FPS on max settings with the same PC. With windows 10, you'll also have ~10 seconds boot-up time.

A 500W PSU is still fine. Don't go with less than 16 gigs RAM. Since you're going AMD, Radeon is probably the way to go, but I already don't remember which nVidia card I bought for myself anyway.

Xev

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Re: What would you build?
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2018, 12:16:15 AM »
^^ This is exactly the info I'm looking for! Thanks.

Since you're going AMD, Radeon is probably the way to go, but I already don't remember which nVidia card I bought for myself anyway.


I thought Radeon and AMD was the logical choice, too, a time or two, so, I strayed from my Nvideas to try... Nuuupe. Back to my GeForce. They just seem more solid in both hardware and drivers/driver updates/actual gaming performance.., whenever I try them. ATI is a venerable name when it comes to video cards (ATI Rage!), but... *shrug*, Nvidea has won me over and even though AMD and ATI are related, now, it hasn't changed anything for me.


Personally I can heartily recommend Win 10, haven't had any problems with them and have been using them since they've been released, first at work and later also at home.

This is what I wanted to hear.




The best bang for my buck when I built my current PC last year, was an M2 SSD. "Standard" SSDs are SATA, M2 is a new thingy whereby you plug the disk directly into the motherboard which is hence noticeably faster than SATA SSDs.

This is the kind of info I'm looking for, too. Since I *will* be motherboard shopping.. If there is a bell/whistle/SSD Bus..., worth noting, that's good info. Thanks much.



Having my loading times cut to a fraction of what they were before has completely transformed my gaming experience, even if I did go from an average of 20 FPS to 60 FPS on max settings with the same PC. With windows 10, you'll also have ~10 seconds boot-up time.


See now, this got a big smile due to... my shiz is old. And. I just recently saw a Youtube video where someone installed Windows in this phenomenally short amount of time onto SSD.. I was, just... drooling. You know? Kinda like with the above info. I used to install PC's all the time for people like me that hadn't upgraded in forever.  I won't mind enjoying that feeling of moving light years ahead in technology.

SOoooo. Nothing exciting with Memory.. Just have 16 gigs of it.. *check*

Have a 500 watt PSU and it's fairly new but I don't know if they've changed motherboard interfaces in the last 12ish years for PSU's that I should look out for. It's probably a weird thing to worry about, but, they do change the interface sometimes.

Now, a processor..... Well, and, can I use my Pcie Geforce 660 in a modern motherboard or is there a newer interface I should watch for..

Thanks Exxar! I feel slightly more up to date (than nearly not at all) already  : )


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Tahquitz

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Re: What would you build?
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2018, 12:33:14 AM »
M.2 comes in both SATA and PCI-Ex varieties, the SATA M.2 is less common for desktops than PCI-Ex.

What's the difference? 

M.2 SATA drives use the SATA portion of UEFI/BIOS.  It's under the same rules of SATA: there's 150MBps, 300MBps, and 600MBps transfer rates (SATA I,II, and III respectively).

M.2 PCI-Ex drives use the PCI-Express portion of your system.  Why this is desired over SATA?  PCI-Express allows max throughput of up to 2.0GBps.  Also, M.2 PCI-Ex drives with NVMe (Non-Volatile Memory Express) has optimizations to make sure an M.2 can consistently reach that 2.0GBps promise, and 3D NAND (chips with Multi Level Cells vs. Single Level Cells) allow more storage on the same volume as a tradeoff: you can use a SLC M.2 for less space but longer life, or a MLC M.2 to get higher capacities with a fair amount of life.

When it comes to performance, M.2 PCI-Ex is where it's at.  M.2 SATA is still handy for laptops, as these chips are far lighter and just as much storage capacity than a 2.5" Laptop Hard Drive.
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Xev

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Re: What would you build?
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2018, 01:50:29 AM »
So Pcie is still popular.. Surely there's a new flavor to look for by now.

Wait... I can't remember being able to put my drives on Pcie, before..., just video. Well, yes... I can see how plugging a drive into modern Pcie might speed things along over SATA...lol.

Well, yes, I'll definitely be going Pcie unless there is a significant enough price difference between it and the SATA version..

What about the drives, themselves? Memory comes in many different speeds... Memory Drives, too? Anything special to look for, besides bus? Maybe the manufacturer? A speed rating? A sweet spot in size? Cup holders?  : )

TQ.. You must either be a technology consultant (and/)or good at Google  : ) Either way, the details are appreciated.

------

Oh hey! A thought.. Pcie is still around and popular.... is the latest version of it compatible with my not too terribly old video card? I mean.. I know it's a shame to build a hotrod and not put in a new video card, but.. It's still plenty fast enough for me. I play on max settings *shrug* only thing is -  I set the fps to 'down' to 60 to keep the fans from flying off the video card.. Likely it will just run even faster in a modern PC..
« Last Edit: June 03, 2018, 02:02:25 AM by Xev »
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Tahquitz

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Re: What would you build?
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2018, 03:03:02 AM »
Wait... I can't remember being able to put my drives on Pcie, before..., just video. Well, yes... I can see how plugging a drive into modern Pcie might speed things along over SATA...lol.

In my daylight hours, I work in technology.

M.2 is a slot on the motherboard.  Except for 'keying', a M.2 SATA slot and a M.2 PCI-Ex slot are exactly the same.  The place you'd find out which one is on the motherboard is the mobo manual, or the tech specs before you buy it.  You have to buy the one your motherboard will support, unfortunately, so if you want PCI-Ex and the motherboard you're looking at to buy says SATA, look at a different motherboard.

Of course, you can add a PCI-Ex expansion card to host a M.2 drive on the card itself.  But with motherboards being made with it from the start, that's one less thing to shop for.

The same goes for memory as well.  It's easier to find a motherboard that has all the slots and ports you need and go from there: the motherboard you want will tell you what processor socket to select a processor from (LGA-1151, LGA-2066, AM4+ etc.), what RAM to get (DDR4 2300, DDR4 3000, etc.) and what devices you can get and maximum count (M.2, USB ports, PCI-Ex slots - the more X16s, the more video cards you hopefully can add, SATA ports, etc.)

Start with the motherboard and processor.  The rest will be clear from there.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2018, 03:23:29 AM by Tahquitz »
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Xev

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Re: What would you build?
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2018, 03:50:26 PM »
Yup, this is what I'm trying to do (your methodology) and this is the kind of info I'm looking for, thanks.

I'm totally out of date, guys... Not only have I not built a PC in over a decade, I completely changed professions. I landscape, now..lol (After many years of being a tech type person - I mostly did it for health reasons (too much sitting!) and due to most people around here don't have PC's, they have cell phones).. I've been at least as buried trying to figure out how to build an outdoors PC as I ever was trying to build one out of metal.

So, cool. Thanks for the help  : )

I think 1 thing I misunderstood right off the bat is there is apparently a difference between pcie (what I know) and pcieX. At first, I thought we were just spelling it different.. Also, I thought M.2 was just what the SSD drive manufacturers were calling their interface to Pcie(x...) I did not realize it was new tech.

What you are saying about figuring out what slots you need.... is exactly what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to figure out what the new tech is (where we are going) and what's hot and what plugs into what, these days. What's the video card bus of choice.. The hard drive bus of choice.. The memory bus of choice.. did any connectors change - like for power supplies or my Pcie(no X, that I recall...) Geforce..

Like you say... I need to figure out if the motherboard I'm getting has all the slots I need. Which means I need to figure out what slots are out there, today, and what to plug into them. And then pick what I think is where the tech is headed/what is fastest for the buck/what's most supported. That kinda thing.

Your guys' info is very helpful. Thanks. I'm so far behind.. But, you know what? This is nothing compared to when stuff changed all the time..  huh? When every few months there were new slots/connectors/interfaces - new tech - and your custom built gaming PC was top of the line for maybe a month or two and then it was nearly completely obsolete. I'm not feeling overwhelmed, just need to catch up.

Let me digest this latest info over some Sunday laundry.... : ) thanks, again.


~~~~~~~~


M.2 is a slot on the motherboard.  Except for 'keying', a M.2 SATA slot and a M.2 PCI-Ex slot are exactly the same.


So.. M.2. is the new hard drive Storage bus of choice when it comes to performance. Specifically, M.2 Pcie..x



the motherboard you want will tell you what processor socket to select a processor from (LGA-1151, LGA-2066, AM4+ etc.)

Any recommendations on processor? Anything especially bangy for the buck or to avoid? (AMD)

what RAM to get (DDR4 2300, DDR4 3000, etc.)

Pretty much the same question as above except substitute 'memory' for 'processor'  : )

Once I research and digest the above info and come up with specific hardware (what video card bus to have - and is that compatible with what I have, and which exact SSD and memory to get), the motherboard choice should be fairly clear. I'll go with Gigabyte just due to my history with them and pick the one that has the slots I need.

No more Seagate!... *sigh* now I have to come up with a new favorite "hard drive" manufacturer. My first PC with no moving parts except fans..
« Last Edit: June 03, 2018, 04:16:01 PM by Xev »
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Tahquitz

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Re: What would you build?
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2018, 06:21:47 PM »
Well, if you're asking directly...

Yup, this is what I'm trying to do (your methodology) and this is the kind of info I'm looking for, thanks.

Quote
I think 1 thing I misunderstood right off the bat is there is apparently a difference between pcie (what I know) and pcieX. At first, I thought we were just spelling it different.. Also, I thought M.2 was just what the SSD drive manufacturers were calling their interface to Pcie(x...) I did not realize it was new tech.

Both initialisms.  They both stand for PCI-Express.  PCI-E and PCI-Ex are the same thing.  Sometimes I get lazy and cut off the X.

Quote
So.. M.2. is the new hard drive Storage bus of choice when it comes to performance. Specifically, M.2 Pcie..x

M.2 is the new name of NGFF (Next Generation Form Factor), or Intel's way of making a slot that resembles Mini-PCI-Ex on a laptop into a hard drive connector as well as an accessory connector.  More info...

The numbers of a M.2 module refer to sizing.  22mm is the default width, with 40, 60 and 80mm lengths.  So if you're looking at a 2280 M.2, it's 22mm wide by 80mm long.  The longer modules have room for higher capacity when it comes to SSDs.  Shorter ones have less capacity.  It's physics.  (There are short M.2s with high capacity, but you pay out the nose for it.)

What I'd go with? A M.2 2280 SSD with NVMe (make sure the motherboard has a M.2 PCI-Ex slot vs. a M.2 SATA slot first).

Quote
Any recommendations on processor? Anything especially bangy for the buck or to avoid? (AMD)

Don't worry too much about Meltdown and Spectre in the news, because damn near everything is affected and there's still no clear path for regular users to 'immunize' their systems.  You can't win for ideal security at the moment. 

Intel had the "tick/tock" cycle where every even year they'd do a die shrink and every odd year, they'd optimize their platform to take the most advantage of it.  After 14nm, it's been fundamentally broken, we've been on 14nm with Intel the last 4 generations of the Core i Series.  So anything in the last four years is good.  From the latest releases, Intel is making processors with "as many cores as you can afford" with Core i3 falling by the wayside for Core i5, i7 and now i9.  The most expensive, Core-i9 7980 is 18 cores (36 threads total) for $1999. (Building such a system is well past $4,000 altogether.)  For gaming, media creation, and heavier workloads, I'd lean towards Core i5/i7.  If you tend to run one application at a time and multitasking isn't a major deal for you (maybe one browser open while playing a game), you can get away with a Core i3.

Intel's most popular processors for gaming tend to be the Core i7-X700 (6700, 7700, 8700 depending on the generation you want), and the Core i5 6400 and 7400 chips, which are quad core.  The newest chip at the same Core i5 tier (Core i5 8400) is hex core (6 cores) with a price bump to match.  All three are in the $150-180 price range price-wise.

AMD has been at Intel's heels with budget systems that didn't quite meet up with Intel's bar, but with the die shrink slowdown, AMD is catching up.  Their hot ticket right now is Ryzen.  These processors not only get within 5-10% of Intel's performance, but also do it with more threads available.  The main difference between AMD's method to accomplish the performance and Intel's is more of a voltage draw and a larger surface area for the chip.  But even with that, the price difference is not too far off.  In the comparison link above, Ryzen is more expensive (both boxes have no coolers, as the 2600X would be $30 higher), but when the advanced ones are compared (Ryzen Threadripper 1950X vs. Core i7 7900) it's splitting hairs.  Ryzen comes out cheaper, but Intel accomplishes 4% better performance with less threads for a $60 difference.  (Both are over $800, which is too rich for my blood.)  AMD is getting much better in competing with Intel lately.

Definitely give the Ryzen 5 (Ryzen 5 1600 and Ryzen 5 2600X) and 7 (Ryzen 7 2700 and Ryzen 7 2700X) a look.  The X models have a cooler in the box, which is recommended as most AM4 motherboards are hard pressed for matching brackets for new coolers.  (That was my experience last summer, it might have changed since then.)  The 1500X is $189 MSRP, while the 2700X is about $400.  Intel just released a Core i3 processor this last iteration (Coffee Lake) squashing the rumor that Core i3 was being discontinued. If you want to look at AMD's offering, check out Ryzen 3.  Quad core for about $96.  Not bad in any man's english.

What I'd go with: Depends on the budget.  If you want the processor to be $200 or less, a Core i5-8400 is $20 less than Ryzen 2600/2600X.  If less than $150, I'd be all about Ryzen 3.  Core i3-8300 is $120, but the Ryzen 3-2200G is $27 less for a -11% performance hit.  Now for the first time in 5-6 years is a good time to make a budget desktop!

Quote
Pretty much the same question as above except substitute 'memory' for 'processor'  : )

Memory will become clear when you get the processor and motherboard lined up.  Generally, faster memory will slow down for a slower motherboard, but you don't want to overspend, either.  A DDR4-2333 motherboard will take DDR4-3200, so if there's a sale and you want capacity over speed, that's fine. 

If speed is what you're after, then look carefully at the support page of a motherboard before buying it.  Some motherboards have native support for memory speeds out of the box, some require certain processors (more $$) or firmware updates to support faster speeds.  Be safe and get the native speed memory first.  If you get memory with an overclock speed and the motherboard doesn't support that maximum, you might be stuck not being able to start your new machine.  Also, timings still matter.  The timings are the four numbers you see in memory specs (16-18-18-38 as an example).  The first number, the CAS Latency, is the easiest comparison between two memory modules: think golf.  (Lowest number wins.)  CAS Latency is also the dividing line between cheap memory and better memory.  Cheap memory modules ("Value" or "Budget" named ones) have slower timings, where the gaming and enterprise memory are quicker at a higher price.

What I'd go with: 8GB is the new normal.  16GB or 32GB is better if you can afford it, but I would not build a system with less than 8GB anymore.  Don't worry too much about memory at the onset, this is something you can upgrade later.

Quote
Once I research and digest the above info and come up with specific hardware (what video card bus to have - and is that compatible with what I have, and which exact SSD and memory to get), the motherboard choice should be fairly clear. I'll go with Gigabyte just due to my history with them and pick the one that has the slots I need.

No more Seagate!... *sigh* now I have to come up with a new favorite "hard drive" manufacturer. My first PC with no moving parts except fans..

Like mentioning Anti-Virus providers in public discord, saying what brand you use in parts will always be divisive.  There's just as many vocal haters of Seagate as there are Western Digital.  If the hard drive doesn't fail in AT LEAST 5 years, you got your money's worth out of it, no matter what anyone says.  Longer is better, of course.

What I'd go with: Pick two hard drives.  You'll need a SSD hard disk for your operating system, but those trade speed for capacity.  ($100 for an SSD gets you around 128GB or less, $100 for a platter Hard Disk is 2-4TB.)  Then get a regular Desktop Hard Disk for room to grow.  Put your operating system and one or two FAVORITE games (online ones) on the SSD to mitigate load times.  Everything else (videos, music, single player games, etc.) on the big drive, where patience is a virtue.

Good luck in your adventure! :D
« Last Edit: June 03, 2018, 07:19:12 PM by Tahquitz »
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Xev

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Re: What would you build?
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2018, 10:34:57 PM »

What I'd go with: Pick two hard drives.  You'll need a SSD hard disk for your operating system, but those trade speed for capacity.  ($100 for an SSD gets you around 128GB or less, $100 for a platter Hard Disk is 2-4TB.)  Then get a regular Desktop Hard Disk for room to grow.  Put your operating system and one or two FAVORITE games (online ones) on the SSD to mitigate load times.  Everything else (videos, music, single player games, etc.) on the big drive, where patience is a virtue.

Good luck in your adventure! :D

This, would be my thinking, since..... SSD became available, basically.. Yes. Yes. Yes.

I plan to upgrade on Cyber Monday. Which is, way far away, I know... but... taking into account that I watch them go by every year and this year I am hoping I don't have to... it's not so bad. And, not being in a hurry is nice. No rush decisions.

I said 'hotrod' when referring to building, up there, somewhere, but, that is a relative term... I mean.. Honestly.. If you get top of the line when top of the line is top of the line, how top of the line is it, really? I mean... say... a few years down the road. I try to go for that sweet spot where performance is good enough that everyone gives things a good rating - but I don't spend more than, like, $300... on anything.

If you enjoy Consulting, TQ, for the record, I enjoyed your consultation. That's all there is to it. Find out what someone is looking for and them gorge them with Relevant facts on the subject until they can make an informed decision. Sell them a ton of PC's once they picked out their flavor, show them how to migrate. Brag to your friends about the price tag  : )

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Xev

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Re: What would you build?
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2018, 02:20:14 PM »
As I awoke to a T.V. with a randomly appearing NO SIGNAL (lil hiccup with automatically powering on, this morning..) I was reminded of something I can enjoy again when my PC isn't falling apart.

Waking up Lost in Space!

I replaced my TV with a PC ~ the time dvd's came out. So using it like a TV is nothing new. One day I realized... hey.. why use an alarm clock when I can just have my PC boot up and queue up the next episode of (whatever) Lost in Space...?

It's just so much better than *wonnnnnk wonnnnnnk wonnnnnk*

Ever since my virus scanner's parent company changed hands my PC has been a grindfest when it boots, and, I've already lost 2 drives due to heat (note to self: do not stack so many drives so close to each other when indoor temps get well above hot) and due to they've been through a few moves and are old. Having the PC boot and then play a video was grinding the only hard drive platters I had left away, so, I had to stop.

Looking forward to that lil thing in life returning. : )

*pushes up glasses in middle where Band-Aid has repaired the broken part*

Doesn't everyone use their PC as an alarm clock?

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Xev

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Re: What would you build?
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2018, 05:17:25 PM »

What I'd go with: 8GB is the new normal.  16GB or 32GB is better if you can afford it, but I would not build a system with less than 8GB anymore.

Can you translate for me, some...?

DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Intel Z170 Platform / Intel X99 Platform Desktop Memory

Which specification(s) are actually important? Should I go motherboard/processor shopping before I ask this question?

Is DDR4 standard nowadays or is it one step up or down? Is 3200 something to brag about? How about PC4 25600...? I never heard of this. I never heard of the remainder, there, either.

I get promo stuff from Newegg (good gear, good prices, good reviews, been around awhile) regularly and today there were some deals on memory. SOooooo.... I thought I'd start window shopping.



What I'd go with: 8GB is the new normal.  16GB or 32GB is better if you can afford it, but I would not build a system with less than 8GB anymore.

I'm thinking to save some money up front, here, by just getting (1) 8 gig stick and adding another one, later. I don't like mixing memory is one problem with this and another is that I don't know if that's possible to just have 1 stick of memory installed, or, if I need to install in pairs or if there's anything else I'm not thinking of atm...  : ) How many memory slots are typical nowadays, anyway? At least 2?

If I can get a real steal on 16 gig (in the next 5 months...) then that seems like the way to go. Then again.. I only have 4 gig, now, and do pretty well (in an old OS..). Maybe I never even need 16.. until it's even cheaper. As long as my games don't get memory hungry, I'm good. They seem to be doing fine, now, but I don't run anything extra in the background.

Cheap storage seems like a simple solution. I already got an ad for a plenty large drive that is backwards compatible to USB 2 so I can copy all my old junk, and for $60. I don't really care how great the USB Drive is (this one happened to be a Seagate..) due to it won't see very much use and will be more of a backup drive than anything. I'll be a lot more picky when browsing SSD's.
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Re: What would you build?
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2018, 03:57:07 PM »
My gaming rig is top of the line for 2008 (remember Abit motherboards?) and I built it myself so reading this thread has been very enlightning and I'm sure many others are getting schooled too. Thanks to everyone who is contributing!
The only thing I've changed in my rig is I bought an AOI (all-in-one) CPU Water Cooler by Cooler Master last year. Some games like XCOM and especially XCOM2 are CPU intensive games and XCOM2 was bogging my framerate and actually overheating my CPU to the point of crashing the game, but with the water cooler I never even drop framerate anymore.
I mention this ONLY because as your new rig becomes "old" having a water cooler will allow you to not notice how old it's getting as games get progressively more CPU intensive.
Water coolers are a highly debateable subject with lots of people saying they don't help, and maybe they won't on new rigs, but on old rigs running newer games they definitely make a huge difference.
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Re: What would you build?
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2018, 06:44:57 PM »
My gaming rig is top of the line for 2008 (remember Abit motherboards?) and I built it myself so reading this thread has been very enlightning and I'm sure many others are getting schooled too. Thanks to everyone who is contributing!
The only thing I've changed in my rig is I bought an AOI (all-in-one) CPU Water Cooler by Cooler Master last year. Some games like XCOM and especially XCOM2 are CPU intensive games and XCOM2 was bogging my framerate and actually overheating my CPU to the point of crashing the game, but with the water cooler I never even drop framerate anymore.
I mention this ONLY because as your new rig becomes "old" having a water cooler will allow you to not notice how old it's getting as games get progressively more CPU intensive.
Water coolers are a highly debateable subject with lots of people saying they don't help, and maybe they won't on new rigs, but on old rigs running newer games they definitely make a huge difference.

Cooling is extremely important in gaming. As soon as things start heating up, performance goes down. Video is what overheats faster than anything on my PC.  Not so much now that my place doesn't get so hot in summer, but, still, the thing with video in my experience has been that I can push it about as hard as I want until it overheats and then I gotta start backing things down. In Winter, with not so new games like CO and STO, I didn't really have to do any backing down but if the air goes out in summer things get backed down until they are turned off (the final backing down level)..

Hard drive heat was killing me in recent years. As was the summer heat.. I should have known better than to stack 4 drives right next to each other and let them spin in a room as hot as this one used to get. lost 2 drives that way. The 2 in the middle..

So yeah, cooling is important.

Usually I don't have CPU cooling problems, though. Isn't that what you're water cooling? "CPU Water Cooler". I mean, if the thing gets hot enough (I think it didn't, once, this Winter) the fan will spin faster, but it doesn't burn up like my video or that pile of hard drives did. I run my pc on a desk with an open case that has a small fan blowing across the front to *pull out* the hot air and I air dust frequently..  Sooo, that probly makes a difference. With worse airflow and a dusty heatsink my CPU would have a harder time staying cool and I'd probably hear the fan working harder.

Water cooling is pretty old school and current school, just like air cooling.

I never tried it though..

PC's and Water??? nuuuuu

After all this time it still sounds too far out to cool a PC with water. That's interesting to hear your experience. Air cooling is simple but it still breaks. I'm waiting for a CPU fan to go out, right now.

So what's the deal with water cooling, anyway? Is it expensive? Is it just for CPU's? Where does the water go? Is it tricky at all? Bulky? Doesn't the water get hot eventually (apparently not..)? Do I need antifreeze? hehe (well, water does get old and moldy ya know..)

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Floride

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Re: What would you build?
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2018, 10:39:08 AM »
So what's the deal with water cooling, anyway? Is it expensive? Is it just for CPU's? Where does the water go? Is it tricky at all? Bulky? Doesn't the water get hot eventually (apparently not..)? Do I need antifreeze? hehe (well, water does get old and moldy ya know..)
I should've mentioned that the appeal of Abit motherboards was that they were overclocked from the manufacturer, which automatically makes my CPU run hotter than normal.
AOI (All-in-one) Water Coolers are sealed systems (AKA user friendly water coolers) but other more expensive ones require filling, and sealing, and drilling, and custom mounting, and hair pulling and headaches.
Mine was $60 on newegg. I'm not trying to promote anything, but if you're curious to see what it looks like here's the link.
Mount the heatsink, plug the heatsink's wires into CPUFAN on the mobo (it's a dummy plug. Mobo's go bonkers if nothing is plugged into CPUFAN).
Then mount the radiator assembly to the inside rear of the case and plug the fan wires into SYSFAN on the mobo and set the SYSFAN to the highest speed in your BIOS.
The water automatically circulates as fast as possible the whole time, so you don't have to worry about setting some arbitrary flow speed and crossing your fingers.
I will say I got reeeeally lucky that I actually had room in my case for the radiator assembly and it cleared the mobo and the graphics card. Definitely measure and make sure the AOI you want will physically fit BEFORE buying one. Their bulkiness is their achilles heel.
They do make them for GPUs too but you shouldn't need one unless your making a bitcoin mining farm.

The only caveat here is that, for $60, I probably could've gotten a kickass conventional heatsink/fan setup that may or may not have been just as good. So like I said, it's a highly debateable issue.
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Xev

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Re: What would you build?
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2018, 01:09:16 PM »

They do make them for GPUs too but you shouldn't need one unless your making a bitcoin mining farm.

Ohh reaaally.. That's interesting (too)..

You and I must have completely different computing experiences in some ways. I can push my video card (and the ones before it..) to the point where its fans start screaming wayyyy before I can push my CPU so far as to do so.

A CPU Cooler was an interesting idea< to keep the overall case cooler, but a video water cooler... now, we're getting interesting.


The only caveat here is that, for $60, I probably could've gotten a kickass conventional heatsink/fan setup that may or may not have been just as good. So like I said, it's a highly debateable issue.

I wouldn't spend 60 bucks on a fan/heatsink hehe. Not unless pricing has reeeeally changed.

I have heard/read... for decades, that Water Cooling beats air cooling hands-down. It just always sounded too far out and complicated and messy for some reason.

I will say I got reeeeally lucky that I actually had room in my case for the radiator assembly and it cleared the mobo and the graphics card. Definitely measure and make sure the AOI you want will physically fit BEFORE buying one. Their bulkiness is their achilles heel.

Yeah.,.. never enough space.. Very important consideration. I have to check out your link later. Would have done it already but I'm already skipping chores this morning so I gotta get back to it.

Good info  : )
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Re: What would you build?
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2018, 08:45:41 PM »
Cooling seems to be a... consideration, at least, with SSD drives.

What a simple technology, huh? Nice short names.. SAMSUNG 970 PRO M.2 2280 512GB PCIe Gen3. X4, NVMe 1.3 64L V-NAND 2-bit MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) MZ-V7P512BW.

I'm looking at the ad and I was like, wha...?

Hard drives are the new video card, huh? Used to be, and for the longest time, that video was the place things were happening. You still want a good video card as a #1 priority, but less so, now that Storage finally is catching up and finally giving us something new to be 'excited' about.

That SSD, above? It looks like a half stick of memory in the pic. SSD's fail, just like hard drives, it seems. They only are warrantied to write to themselves so many times and for so long. They also appear to generate heat. I had a feeling this would be the case. I haven't done the comparison, but, I am guessing that SSD's use a lot less power than HD's, relatively speaking.

It's an interesting tech. TQ suggested and I totally agreed that a good strategy is to get a big, fat, cheap but good, traditional hard drive (they're everywhere) and a small, fast SSD (whatever's the biggest and cutting edgest for the buck at purchase time)... After doing just a tiny amount of shopping, I'm seeing some fairly cheap older tech (all SATA, I suppose, didn't look that close) SSD drives.. This might add something into the mix.

This is definitely an evolving tech and the biggest change to PC's since 3d video cards. Not that there is a lot of competition (multi cores.. bigger data busses..), but still.. It's been awhile since something has fundamentally changed with PC's.

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Re: What would you build?
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2018, 05:40:53 PM »
Even though Cyber Monday is still months away I'm actually feeling a little rushed due to the only thing I've spent any time researching is ... Windows?? of all things. I'm also seeing that I should start getting stuff, now. I've been getting some good looking sales in e-mall and not *everything* I want is going to be on sale on one day. Most likely.

I do think I'm going to try and get 16 gig on sale and not cheap out with 8 with the option to upgrade, later. That's about as far past Windows shopping as I've gotten. I'm also shooting for the fastest SSD I can afford for games and I'm not real concerned about size, due to I don't plan to put much on it.

I'm tempted to throw Windows and Windows programs on their own SSD... And then toss games on their own SSD. The Windows SSD can be tiny (cheap) and can run independently from my games SSD. (That's how I always did my hard drives, or, I would at least partition off Windows.) And then get the best bang for the buck hard drive for all else. The focus, being, on getting the currently best Game drive that I can justify the cost for - while shoving other things onto their own drives so that the games drive only has to 'spin' for games. I'm nonstop getting offers for small $30 SSD drives - maybe one of those can be my Windows drive - even if they aren't top of the line I'm hoping they'll boot Windows in a similar timeframe as the more expensive ones - which is mainly what that drive will be judged by - how long it takes to boot Windows.

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Re: What would you build?
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2018, 05:35:06 PM »
Wth is up with Video.....?

Did I miss something?

Is real time ray tracing as cool as it sounds?

That's about where the cool ends..

Man! I thought when I kept getting ads for $650 video cards that those were the top of the line just based on the price. You know, the cards that are generally double the price of the price most gamers pay for their very respectable video.

Then, I get an e-mail for new G-Force cards that ... *start* at $1k

$1,200 non-specialty video cards??

I haven't seen anything like that since the AutoCAD worship days.

I thought the trend on Video cards since some years now was less room for innovation and more downward pricing..?
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Re: What would you build?
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2018, 11:28:56 PM »
GeForce's RTX line (2080, etc.) are the announced ones that will be super-pricey for a raytracing-hybrid approach to games who implement it.  For those not on the bleeding edge, GTX cards will still be produced I'd wager, but the numbering has me curious... whether they're pushing these as a 'breakthrough' and keep releasing GTX 11XX cards for now, until the GTX either falls out of favor (I don't see 9-10 years of two separate lines) or RTX cards become cheap enough for them to stop being a difference between value and performance graphics (think how Apple rolled out Retina High DPI displays on their hardware... the once premium took a few years before it became Apple's standard.)

In any case, I avoid graphic cards expensive enough to take the place of a used car.
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Xev

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Re: What would you build?
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2018, 04:33:14 PM »
I've not seen video cards priced that far out since the specialty card days.

I mean... 1.2k for a video card goes way beyond paying a little extra to be on the bleeding edge...! The far out price that no normal person would pay should be ~ $650 these days I'd think..

Vive la revolution. Sounds like we're paying for tech that most games likely won't benefit from presently. I just hope it's as big a jump in tech as it is in price, and, that price comes way down soon enough.
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