Author Topic: What would you build?  (Read 4634 times)

Xev

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Re: What would you build?
« Reply #60 on: January 03, 2019, 12:47:07 AM »
This has been totally educational..

I'm sure glad I totally misread that Microsoft link on End of Life.. I mean.. Things change, and, sometimes radically for the worse and so you have to adapt. I'm glad this isn't one of those times!

Well, hmm. Twice a year for major updates isn't as horrible as it could be. As in: randomly occurring during login, whenever, and often. That, would be bad. Having 18 months before being *required* to install a major update seems totally reasonable.

Now I have to wonder... what kind of data are they pushing out on Regular Updates? As in, if you had to guess, how much data would you guess Microsoft shoves at Windows 10 in a month for Regular Updates?

If Windows 10 actually does turn out to be around 'forever', then, it sure does seem like less sales for Windows over the years.. On the other hand, it would make when you buy Windows irrelevant, which is good for us. I mean, you don't want to be that person that paid full price for a 15 year old OS, 2 years before it reaches End of Life. You want to be the person that bought Windows 15 years ago. Until now.  ?


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Tahquitz

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Re: What would you build?
« Reply #61 on: January 03, 2019, 03:34:03 PM »
Varies.  Most Patch Tuesday releases (1st Tues. Of Each Month) covers zero-day threats, but they tend to be small.  Others including cumulative and monthly roll ups of patches can be as big as 1-2GB.

Where Windows 10  has pros and cons:
-- They have taken away individual control.  When you update, you don't get to pick and choose patches anymore, it's all or nothing.

-- However, if you are on a bandwidth limitation, you can turn Metered Connection to ON in Network Settings.  This ignores patches and updates until you connect to a different Internet Source.  (This has been helpful to me and my Hotspot when my home Internet is down.) The Metered Connection is tied to IP Address, though, so when the IP changes, pay attention.  Most of the time it catches the MAC Address and keeps Metered Connection on.  Sometimes it misses.
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Xev

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Re: What would you build?
« Reply #62 on: January 03, 2019, 06:04:04 PM »
The Metered Connection is tied to IP Address, though, so when the IP changes, pay attention.  Most of the time it catches the MAC Address and keeps Metered Connection on.  Sometimes it misses.

I'm not sure what this problem is. It looks like it has something to do with updating Windows from a different Internet source than normal and then when switching back to the normal source and if the IP isn't the same, Windows uses the router MAC address to identify that it's back on the Metered Connection. Sometimes.

I don't have a portable PC or secondary local Internet source, so, I probably won't be doing this anyway. Sounds like a good option if I had a laptop, though. The thumb drive thing you described earlier....could be doable. We do have a local Internet Café that I could visit with a thumb drive for updates every 6-18 months if I had to.


-- They have taken away individual control.  When you update, you don't get to pick and choose patches anymore, it's all or nothing.


Welllll... we doooo still at least get to choose All or Nothing.

Can I choose Nothing...for 6(12/18...) months...and then download a bi-annual Major update and be completely up to date...? Sounds like the way to go if you want to download the least and still never be more than 6 months out of date. I normally would never go 6 months without updating Windows.... but.. it might be nice to have that option.

If major updates will indeed get me up-to-date, then, this is how my update scenario is starting to look...

-Install Windows.. Get hammered with updates..
-Hopefully be up-to-date enough to be able to download the remaining patches for the month..
-Hopefully be able to download the patches for the next month

-When/if hope runs out (there's more update data than I can download..), stop updating until a Major patch hits.

-Major patch hits - go to Internet Café (or just save up enough data at home for the scheduled event) and get caught up.

-Rinse
-Repeat


It's good we can still at least turn updates off! You don't want to be on a metered account and have automatic 2 gig downloads happening..

So you would estimate regular updates to be ~ 1-2 gigs a month? How large did you say the major 6-month updates are? Can I get my Windows completely up-to-date when I install one...?

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Tahquitz

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Re: What would you build?
« Reply #63 on: January 04, 2019, 08:03:28 PM »
Can I choose Nothing...for 6(12/18...) months...and then download a bi-annual Major update and be completely up to date...? Sounds like the way to go if you want to download the least and still never be more than 6 months out of date. I normally would never go 6 months without updating Windows.... but.. it might be nice to have that option.

It's not designed to be turned off, but the 'nothing' (in all or nothing) is going to Services in Administrative Tools (under Control Panel), and changing Windows Update to manual, not automatic.  That's the simplest way, and least destructive; when you do have time at the Cafe, switch the Windows Update service from Manual back to Automatic, and head to Settings, Updates & Security to get back to normal.  Or if it's major update time, skip the Settings app and go for it.  Instead of Downloading the tool to make an ISO or USB, if its the only computer, just click Update Now and run that app.

There's two other ways to stop updates: Group Policy Editor (not advisable on Home systems, as corrupt policies can happen and the best cure is to start the machine over from scratch) and Registry Editor (which is everything sensitive, and not following instructions to the letter can make your software unbootable, which is the same effect as a corrupt Group Policy setting.)  I'd use those ONLY if disabling the Service for Windows Update fails to work.
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Xev

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Re: What would you build?
« Reply #64 on: January 05, 2019, 01:14:40 AM »
It's not designed to be turned off, but the 'nothing' (in all or nothing) is going to Services in Administrative Tools (under Control Panel), and changing Windows Update to manual, not automatic. 

Yeah, I'd probably do that. It's what I do now in Windows 7.

It sounds like the only difference in Windows 10, is, when I do choose to do an update manually - I have to install everything and can't pick and choose - which, I rarely do anyway - I usually download whatever there is to download.

when you do have time at the Cafe, switch the Windows Update service from Manual back to Automatic, and head to Settings, Updates & Security to get back to normal. 

How am I going to do that with my home-not-portable PC at the Internet Café? I was thinking more to do that thumb drive option you mentioned earlier - where I can download the update to a thumb drive and then take the drive home.


Or if it's major update time, skip the Settings app and go for it.  Instead of Downloading the tool to make an ISO or USB, if its the only computer, just click Update Now and run that app.


The link is for a full install of Windows 10? Are you trying to further confusicate me? : )


The reason I was trying to pin down about how much Windows 10 downloads in a month, is, my data limit is about to go way up. I might be able to handle 2-3 gigs a month. a 5-6gig Major Patch might even be doable every 6 months. If it's not, I can decide what I want to do... which probably means hitting up the Café before my build expires so I can get caught up.

Another thing I am thinking, is... why budget for 3 gigs of windows updates in a month.... if I can just wait 6 months and do a Major update and be completely caught up.. I mean.. I think I can live with being 6 months behind if it means I don't have to deal with 'will I have enough data' for 6 months.

Metered accounts (I use Verizon but it's not just them) are finally getting bigger data limits. I started out with 1 gig... luckily I was still playing CoH and I could play a lot of CoH on 1 gig.. Then, luckily, not long after CoH went away and I started playing a more data hungry Champion's online, my data limit went up again - to 5 gig! That was a big day. Now.. I have 25... and Windows 10 looms.

~~~

I don't have 25 gig yet but I'm told that's what's going to be available here very soon.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2019, 01:22:25 AM by Xev »
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Tahquitz

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Re: What would you build?
« Reply #65 on: January 05, 2019, 03:49:38 AM »
Yeah, obviously a desktop isn't coming with you.  (Unless you're Aubrey Plaza, then you find a way to make it work.)

The upside: ANY device can get the ISO.  If you don't have a Windows laptop or device (Mac, Linux, Android... Haiku?), the same page just displays a link to get the ISO directly instead of the USB/ISO tool.  From there, get the ISO off the device and run Rufus to make the USB drive.
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Xev

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Re: What would you build?
« Reply #66 on: January 05, 2019, 03:25:36 PM »
Yeah, obviously a desktop isn't coming with you.  (Unless you're Aubrey Plaza, then you find a way to make it work.)


That poor guy at the end was suffering from logic bomb shell shock.. "Why would they do it, why!!" lol..

Good ol' Windows 95, too.. so classic. When I was a tech in '95 I just happened to be working for a large corporation that migrated to Windows 95 from Windows for Workgroups (Windows 3.11). Now *that* was a migration. I even got called on to diagnose problems for the executive level head (Vice Pres?) of I.T. (I forget what his title was..) when his laptop gagged and spewed after getting upgraded, which, was a huge coup for the consulting firm I worked for.. His regular support guy wasn't one of us consultants. I'll never forget the call I made from his desk to the Help Desk (we all had a display with Caller I.D. on our phones) ... "Sangita... your performance just hasn't been where we like to see it. We're going to have to let you go..." lol!

"Those monitors are heavy, too, that thing must be 60 pounds" *snicker*

I think I should back up, some.. I think I don't understand how remote updates work.

For some reason I had it in my head that I could take a (n initialized, somehow) USB/thumb drive to a local internet café and download whatever update(s) I need, and then take the thumb drive back home, plug it in, and get up to date.

~~

I'd definitely stick with Windows 7 if support wasn't ending for it. The updates are very manageable and I have my desktop just like I want it. I'm hoping I can still use it on this PC when I unplug it from the Internet. I have no desire to remove Windows 7 from this PC.

I never used a version of Windows that was out of date supportwise but it doesn't sound like a good idea to use a version of Windows that no longer gets security updates, if, I plan to be online with that pc all the time, which, I will be with the new PC.

I'm not going Apple this late in the game unless it's between that and not using a computer..

Linux, I want to try out just to try out, due to it's been around forever and it looks worth trying. And, it runs on the kind of PC I'm used to. If they get Linux to the point where my games run as fast or faster, I might not even mind switching OS's for awhile due to why not, it's been awhile.

So that pretty much leaves Windows 10 now that I understand the pricing better and don't have to go running to Linux - assuming I can handle the Windows 10 downloads. Which, it sounds like I will be able to - especially if I can update remotely using a simple thumb/usb drive if/when I have to.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2019, 03:17:30 AM by Xev »
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Xev

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Re: What would you build?
« Reply #67 on: February 07, 2019, 08:03:26 PM »
Still no new PC!

My largest job from last year still hasn't paid off, soooooo.... I've turtled up.

Meanwhile, sale prices are already better, now, than they were Cyber Monday. If I were to build right now it would clearly be a Ryzen system with an ATI 1050 or better, 16 gig of memory (at least ddr4whatever = pc4 30000), and with at least a 1TB (pcie16/m2, most likely) SSD drive, and, some kind of cheap as possible, fat as possible, external drive (USB would be nice for simplicity/portability) for backups/storage. I still like the last case I found/linked here. I still don't know which way I'll go with Windows - OEM or Full Version. It depends on how big of a deal 20-40 bucks is when the time comes.

Hey! I have a wonder tool for anyone interested. I really like it, anyway. It will tell you about anything you would want to know about your video card. It will even Detect old ones (and new, I'm assuming..)... and give you all this great, specific, info:
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/gigabyte-gtx-660-windforce-2x-oc.b463

That info page was launched from a program. The program tells all kinds of useful info, too. The "Sensors" tab gives realtime data on how close to capacity your fans are running.. how hot the gpu is.. how much electricity the card is using... and all kinds of technical info. Zee program, is here:
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpuz/

Download and run at your own risk, of course. It's the Internet - be careful! I've detected nothing but goodness from this application since I started using it a year ago or so, soooo, I finally decided to pass it on to... You. *shrug* I always appreciated a good tool.

« Last Edit: February 07, 2019, 08:08:29 PM by Xev »
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Tahquitz

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Re: What would you build?
« Reply #68 on: February 11, 2019, 04:57:22 AM »
What's been helpful for comparing parts for me:

https://www.userbenchmark.com

CPU, GPU, HDD, SSD, etc.  Select a device and pick any two products to compare.  You'll get a comparison on performance, price, sales, and reviews across the board.  UserBenchmark also comes with a program to take an inventory of your current computer to add to their database as well.
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Xev

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Re: What would you build?
« Reply #69 on: March 27, 2019, 12:31:09 PM »
Since we were talking about Windows 7...

KB4493132 finally came down to my macheen today (I guess it's been out for days already). These tiny updates are always especially ... questionable to me so I looked it up before installing and what did I find?

Quote
After 10 years of servicing, January 14, 2020, is the last day Microsoft will offer security updates for computers running Windows 7 SP1. This update enables reminders about Windows 7 end of support. More information about Windows 7 end of support can be found at www.microsoft.com/windows7 or you can review the frequently asked questions.

I declined/Hid the update..

The End Is Near!
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Re: What would you build?
« Reply #70 on: April 08, 2019, 12:51:10 PM »
It doesn't seem like last Cyber Monday was even a very good time to buy.

I've not been watching my sales flyers like a hawk, at all, but, even just lightly scanning them now and then I can see that SSD prices are down, a lot. Memory is at least 20% less...

MS really needs to have a sale! A big sale.. They gave away Windows 10 when they wanted beta testers... Now that Windows 7 support is going away is a good time to brew a new sale. I dunno why I have such a prob plunking down $120 for an OS that is supposed to be around...infinitely, but, I do.

Anyway, I really wasn't impressed, at all, by last Cyber Monday and I think the reason why, at least partially, may have been that it just wasn't a good time to buy. Presently, seems to be a better time and getting better.

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Re: What would you build?
« Reply #71 on: April 08, 2019, 08:18:44 PM »
Microsoft isn't going to discount Windows 10.  In fact, in the shutdown advisory they're pushing to Windows 7 PCs, they're telling people at this point they don't advise applying a Windows 10 upgrade to any system running Windows 7 that hasn't been purchased brand new in the last four years. 

Go buy a new PC is the message they're sending.  If that's the official word, Windows 10 license keys won't be discounted in any way.
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Xev

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Re: What would you build?
« Reply #72 on: April 09, 2019, 01:09:42 PM »
In fact, in the shutdown advisory they're pushing to Windows 7 PCs, they're telling people at this point they don't advise applying a Windows 10 upgrade to any system running Windows 7 that hasn't been purchased brand new in the last four years.

*shrug*

What does that even mean? I could have built/bought a wayyyyyy different PC than you, 4 years ago. I mean, I guess they have to advise... *something*. Sounds like an extremely dumbed down, and probably overly safe, version of recommended System Specs.

I'm really curious how they're expecting their new Infinity License to work. I mean, I'm all for never buying more than 1 copy of Windows per PC and having a version of Windows that works on PCs from here on out.. But.. *boggle*

I'm curious how it's going to turn out for the many many people loyal to Windows 7 that don't want to switch, too, and continue using an OS online with no security updates.

Anyway, it sure seems like a good time for a sale for them! It would make me much more inclined to release the green from my steely grip, now, instead of waiting until the last minute. Plus, it's not as bad being forced to do something if you can get something out of it.
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Re: What would you build?
« Reply #73 on: April 14, 2019, 02:13:09 PM »
Sales are sales and there is always a new one. But. This kinda made my jaw drop a little so I thought I'd share..

WD Elements 10TB USB 3.0 Desktop Hard Drive.... For 150 clams... 150! 10 tb.. WD... Reputable reseller...

wow..

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Re: What would you build?
« Reply #74 on: May 22, 2019, 04:37:26 PM »
Well, it's on again..

Windows 7 support ending, I had a scary login of scrolling letters and numbers on a black screen ~ a week ago and no problems since (whew), STO is removing their 32-bit client... and, well, some key pricing seems way better now than it did on the last Cyber Monday - it seems like a decent time to buy as far as price and performance goes.

So.

Yeah.

I'm looking at setting up a new build again. If anyone has any revelations since last Novemberish.. my eyes and ears are open. Again. Hopefully I'll finally get it over with, this time.

16 gig of memory has gone down significantly and I'll likely be going that route. Ryzen 5's and GTX 1060's look more attainable too, but, I haven't priced how much lower the Ryzen 3's and GTX 1050s are, now - they may still tickle my savingsbone (and seem plenty good enough for me, anyway..). SSD Drives seem to have dropped in price and raised in capacity... Motherboards are not looking much different (edit: except there seems to be less complaints about BIOS, in general, and, complaints about installing Windows onto an SSD?). My case went up a few dollars (off sale) but still looks good. Windows is still nearly the most expensive component on the list and not gone down a bit - which, if they truly believe it will never get upgraded past version 10 (I.E. we don't have to buy it ever again) - seems perfectly reasonable, I guess.

External USB drives seem to be the simplest way to backup TB's of data, and, transfer TB's of data, which, I'll be wanting to do. Thinking about getting one of those, too.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2019, 02:17:29 AM by Xev »
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Re: What would you build?
« Reply #75 on: May 25, 2019, 10:14:57 PM »
It looks like PCIE gen3 m.2 is the fastest SSD out there, atm. The pricing seems pretty reasonable.

I'm thinking to get a fast, but smallll, boot SSD. Whatever's cheapest and reliable looking that's fast. A $50ish drive.. Then, a 1 - 2 TB gaming drive.. And, as large of an external USB drive as I can get for the money (under $100) with which to store things that I don't care how fast they are accessed, and, with which to transfer stuff from the old PC.

I'm gonna get Win10 Retail on USB....

The case is picked out.

The 630 watt PSU I picked out last November should still be fine..

I've got to comb through motherboards again.......

Definitely 16 gigs of memory - PC3000 or (likely) higher.

Processor.... a Ryzen 3 or better. It all depends on what my grand total is, and, what sales are going on at the time of purchase..

Video... a GTX 1050 is more than ample to do the job but my greed for speed and whatever is currently on sale may make me look at a 1060 or even a 1650(? I think it was).

Bottoms line, is, I would like to keep it under $900, delivered. And with a no hassle version of Windows, a good case, a solid motherboard, as fast of a game drive as I can get for a 'good' price (it seems like a good time to buy atm as long as you're OK with 2 TB or less) along with the 2 other drives I mentioned, as fast a processor as I can get, but, really, a Ryzen 3 would satisfy me, and, the fastest 16 gigs of memory I can get for under $100 (something in the PC3000+ range). And a reliable (certifiably so) PSU with enough PS for 50 bucks or less.

And some fries...a large coke...and chocolate shake, plx  : )

I'll see if I can't come up with a more detailed wishlist.

Just putting thoughts to paper and fishing more for any inspiration... There do seem to be more options, now, than when I was looking just 6 months ago.
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Re: What would you build?
« Reply #76 on: May 26, 2019, 10:36:58 PM »
Quote
Grand Total: $900.15

Wellll, how is that for coming close to my bottom line price of $900 delivered...?

For that price I end up with a very nice looking ($120..) gaming motherboard complete with nice looking wi-fi and audio, from Gigabyte, and, a very nice looking GTX 1660 from the same people. That's the combo I use now, too - GB mb and video.

I skimped on processors a little and for < a measly (for a modernish processor!) $65 decided to toss in a Ryzen 3

Memory is G. Skill "Ripjaws" PC 28800.. Good company and the price was there, nice speed.

The drives are where I saved some money but I also kinda went the Hinky route.. I'm going to be able to transfer data very easily and without spending hardly anything for a crummy USB 2.0/3.0 port device by using a $20 128 gig thumb drive. And, I'm going to get a super fast boot/game drive - very high benchmark rated Pcie m.2... but... I'm not going to have a dedicated game drive (do I really need one for CoH - STO - CO in this kind of rig??), and, I won't be able to transfer all my video - so - if I want to still view it then I need to either keep this PC going, or, eventually get another drive. It won't have to be a very large drive, either - maybe 500 gb.

Anyway... I thought it was cute how close I came to my price and yet still didn't hardly compromise (Only on the processor and storage - storage is pretty easy to fix and I'm thinking that the processor isn't going to matter due to I don't play anything very new and can't see how I'd have the time to even if I wanted to play anything from this decade..).

Here's a benchie! (they didn't have ripjaws ddr4 3600 so I took the 3200, which, is a lil slower but pretty close. ). Not too shlabby.

Userbenchmark PC Build Comparison

Baseline Bench: Game 81%         Desk 102%      Work 61%
                **Aircraft Carrier**     **UFO**      **Destroyer**

CPU: AMD Ryzen 3 2200G $84
GPU: Nvidia GTX 1660 $210
SSD: Mushkin Pilot NVMe PCIe M.2 500GB $73
RAM: G.SKILL Ripjaws V DDR4 3200 C16 2x8GB $86
MBD: Gigabyte X470 AORUS ULTRA GAMING $110
Total: $563

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Re: What would you build?
« Reply #77 on: June 04, 2019, 08:00:54 PM »
Oh this is getting exciting..

$882 Delivered!

And that's with all the goodies (same stuff as above, too). Except that there's only 1 500 gig SSD drive....(I wanted a dedicated Game SSD, but, that will probably have to wait)) and big thumb drive to cheaply transfer crappy USB 2.0 data. I just can't see spending money on USB 3.0/2.0 - but, I don't want to have to have both PCs running and use a data cable (saving me like $3..), either, sooooo, this is the compromise.

I could save money on video and probably still be very happy, but, I'm probably not going to. I'm thinking to keep an eye on processor sales, too. More Moar, ya know. I'm kinda in a time crunch with wanting to build a new PC before 7/18, otherwise, I'd just watch the daily sales and start picking off things from my wish list one at a time.

I'll sure be glad when this is over! In so many ways..
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Xev

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Re: What would you build?
« Reply #78 on: June 16, 2019, 11:48:27 PM »
Well, we went from Exiting, to, man I have to get this done..

I've got my plastic all loaded up and ready to be discharged.. Now it's just a matter of finalizing my choices and placing the order.

I'm placing a Heads-Up, here, in case anyone wants to offer any last minute advice. I plan to post what I plan to order, before I order, in case anyone can find any Red Flags or has any last minute suggestions.

It's been so long since I built a PC, and, I have no contact whatsoever with any PC users. I do come here, a lot, though... so... I'm picking brains, here. I'll have a Wish List posted...soon.

I'm in the market for a new mouse, too, now... Mine died this morning as I was logging in to order PC parts.. It did so in a way that it even made problems going into BIOS settings. It wigged Windows out. I thought something on my Mainboard was going kaput, but, then, I finally figured out it was 'just' the (newest part on my PC, by FAR!) mouse.. I keep dropping the dang things on my wooden floor.. And they always fall butter-side down (buttons to the floor..). It's especially frustrating for someone as Cheap as I am, who gets sickened by Waste that I can't really, presently, Afford..

Anyway! Final Wish List(s) coming today or tomorrow. Actually, you can view the one below for starters. I probably won't stray from that build unless I spot something similar/better for the same price/cheaper. I *think* they won't let you make a build on that website with parts that aren't rated to work with each other.

I have to say that this is by *far* my most overdue/stressful PC build, ever. I will be *so* glad when it is done - and I'm online - AND I can still get into my online mail and etc.. Some places like to bind to the PC you normally log into. I had serious problems keeping my 30 year old online e-mail account from hackers not so long ago and sure am not looking forward to trying to log in on another PC due to I hope that the 30-mile long password I have for it, that is like the 3rd 30 mile long password I had to make when recovering the account, is recorded properly! I also hope they don't tie my old Outlook account to my old Windows (AND) pc.. I've nearly lost that account recently and it was a bitch proving it was mine even though I'd been logging in to the account on the same PC for well over a decade.

Screw Windows validation problems, I'm getting a Full Retail Version on USB drive, delivered. The last couple of versions of Windows I had were just a pain in the ass. Vista was OEM, and this version 7 is an Educational copy. I just hope that Outlook and some of my other online accounts don't give me problems when I log in with a totally new Windows and totally new PC.

Stress stress stress.. I'll be *so* glad when this is Over and things are all back to 'normal'!

Thanks so much for all the input, here! Like I said, I have no input, at all, where I am. And it's been since ~ 2005 or 2006 since I built a new PC. I think I've finally researched everything to death! I feel fairly comfortable with my decisions. But, I would sure appreciate being graded/reality checked. If I end up wanting to order anything different than what is in the build list, below, I'll post it (should be) today or tomorrow.

I really want to get this thing ordered within the next couple of weeks, finally..
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Xev

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Re: What would you build?
« Reply #79 on: June 17, 2019, 12:00:03 AM »
As promised, a Wish List..

I haven't combed through it for better options in a couple of weeks but I am doing so, now. I *think* all these things plug in together and go vroom!

https://secure.newegg.com/Wishlist/PublicWishlistDetail?ID=7089977

~~~

Yay!

Amazon has Logitech MMO Mice (like the one that just died on me that I want to replace) for 30 bucks! They're ~ 60 on Newegg and 50 wasn't uncommon  as a common price a year or so ago when I got the one I have now. I'm a little leery to buy another one after wearing my last one out so fast ... but $30 makes the decision less.. traumatic. (ha). Which is good due to I don't really have any good alternative and am not in shopping mode - am in Buying mode. I did exhaustive (you know me!) research on mice when I got the MMO and there doesn't seem to be anything any better out there, for me. Too bad they haven't come up with a cordless version of it by now! hate cords. *All* cords.

Anyway, yay  : ) When I saw them for 60 bucks on Newegg my heart sunk. Mine can't even be 2 years old. And I was like "the price went UP...?"

A cordless laser from Logitech is tempting and those things are built to last, but.. I'm sick of shopping, the lasers are probably still $60+, and 30 bucks/20 buttons/just get it over with sounds good.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2019, 01:08:07 AM by Xev »
Some Faves:

Jooc  ~L50 TW/Ele Brute> Senge  ~L50 Claws/Fire Brute> Leezard  ~L50 Claws/Regen Scrapper> Kosmoz  ~L50 Fire/MM Blaster>  Xev  ~L50 Ice/Emp Troller>