Author Topic: Lore Project  (Read 8389 times)

Durakken

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Lore Project
« on: June 01, 2010, 09:17:22 PM »
Guess I should make a page here to discuss this

Working on creating a section specifically to streamline information on Lore...

Main Page: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/User:Durakken/Lore
Guidelines: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/User:Durakken/Lore/Policy

I'd like some feed back on these specific pages... as they are more or less templates...

Primal Earth Page: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/User:Durakken/Lore/Multiverse/Primal_Earth/Marcus Cole
Page: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/User:Durakken/Lore/Multiverse/Primal_Earth/Marcus_Cole

Also... please take a look at the multiverse, races, and technology pages and tell me what you think...

And last... any idea on the powers and archetype sections... The powers section should probably have info on Origins of powers and a list of the basic powers and how they manifest...
« Last Edit: June 03, 2010, 12:14:53 AM by Durakken »

Felderburg

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Re: Lore Project
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2010, 04:32:09 AM »
Hey there! This is a fantastic idea, streamlining the lore/links to the lore. I gave some feedback in your thread over on the official boards too, but here's a comment on the Multiverse page:

You have a sub-section under cosmology titled "regular universes" and then a series of sections under that, including "Physical World"... but then you have a list of universes in another section below the cosmology one. It looks like you've tried to figure out your cosmology issues in the first section of the page, followed by a list of universes. I know it's a work in progress, but it seems that the list of Universes in section 3 ought to go under the sub headings in section 2.

If you do want to discuss the cosmology, you could turn section 2 into a description, with a regular list (not formatted into titles and sub titles) and turn section 3 into the list of known worlds, with a fourth column added to describe which of the categories from section 2 a world falls into.

I notice in the races section you have "god" as a race. Perhaps "Deities" would be more appropriate, as there are quite a few of them?

The issue with powers/archetypes/origins is the point at which they become lore and stop being game mechanics, particularly with archetypes. They're hardly ever mentioned, except for your "ID" card and a few story arcs. I guess what I'm trying to say is we don't want a link to the lore of controllers to talk about how well they "debuff" things...

*edited to add: the "lore only" page for archetypes will need to be done from scratch for many archetypes, since their descriptions include things like "hit points" and "single target attacks." I say that visualizing your page in the lore section as a list of archetypes, with a description of their role in the in game world, followed by a link to their current pages, which are game mechanics-centric. Or you could add a "lore" section (titled "Role in the CoX Universe" or something) to each archetype page, and have your lore page on archetypes just link to that section for each one.

*edit 2: this issue will also come up with things like the invention system, and dual builds... both of which were introduced with canon characters in an immersive way, but which are both clearly mechanics focused, rather than lore based. But I am digressing from the main purpose, which is stream lining lore and how it's all linked together...
« Last Edit: June 02, 2010, 04:50:06 AM by Felderburg »
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Durakken

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Re: Lore Project
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2010, 05:37:06 AM »
The Cosmology Section is for trying to explain how the Cosmology of the universe is set up. Regular universes is a bad term for what is I'm getting at... which is to contrast it from the Netherworld Universes which seem different than the regular universes mentioned. Do a search on the official board or just look three pages back for the thread "CoH Cosmology" which is a discussion of exactly how the multiverse works.


In Races the term god comes from the lore. Look at the rest of the races they are all singular and the singular of gods is god. Although I was thinking about turning Soul, God, Demon, and other spirits into one race of Spirit as there is real mythology and in game lore that supports that Souls can become gods or demons, but then they can't become Fir Bolg or Tuatha... and really it's not established if Human souls and Demons are all the same or if they are just talking about a group of Spirits from the Spirit World or if they are just from a separate plane... which goes back to cosmology and it gets really confusing...

Blondeshell

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Re: Lore Project
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2010, 11:05:23 PM »
It'd be nice to have the characters' ages automatically calculate based on the current date. Otherwise, you'll have to update each one of their articles every year on their birthdays.  ;)

Durakken

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Re: Lore Project
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2010, 11:17:57 PM »
I don't know how to do that. If someone does it would be great if they threw that in there. Otherwise i would have already added it.

Keep in mind I'm learning wiki mark up code as i go, scouring the wiki for info already there, reading, writing, and deciding formating and such so it all works together... For example right now I'm trying to figure out how to list Freedom Phalanx, whether to link directly or create a new page as the page already there has most of what i want, but stuff i don't want and doesn't link back so it would be a little confusing... So things like the age auto updating would be cool... I don't see the point of learning how to do it for such a small thing out of all the other things.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2010, 11:23:53 PM by Durakken »

Sekoia

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Re: Lore Project
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2010, 11:41:00 PM »
It'd be nice to have the characters' ages automatically calculate based on the current date.

I just imported a Wikipedia template for this: {{Age}}.

Durakken

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Re: Lore Project
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2010, 11:46:41 PM »
Thanks and added ^.^

Durakken

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Re: Lore Project
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2010, 06:09:05 AM »
Does anyone know where the source of this information is?

http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Marcus_Cole#Background

I need it for the Elite Five reference...



Also, a number of the timeline references are out of date due to CoV site doesn't work something like that

also also, Statesman's electrical abilities...power wise... anyone got a clue on how it should be called? Electric control seems wrong.

eabrace

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Re: Lore Project
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2010, 11:22:12 AM »
The CoV site not working is more an issue with the fact that when they redesigned the CoH website, all of the links we had to the official site were broken.  We've fixed what we could as we've come across them, but some things (i.e. Paragon Times articles) are just plain gone.

Statesman's electrical abilities derive from his Incarnate abilities.  When he drank from the Well of the Furies he gained the powers of Zeus.  I don't think we'll be able to give a proper name to those abilities until we see the Incarnate system introduced in Going Rogue.  Until then, it might be best just to call them "Incarnate" abilities.
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Durakken

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Re: Lore Project
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2010, 01:06:07 PM »
I see...

Well don't bother with the Timeline... After scouring it over and over again it's not really all that reliable and I've just decided to rewrite it, correct it, and cite everything properly as it gives a good base for guiding what i need to find for the lore... even though it's jacked up >.>


Statesman's Electrical ability I was thinking about calling it Divine Lightning since it seems in the lore that they separate magical and divine abilities as being separate... Don't really need the Incarnate system as this is lore based, not mechanic based, but it'll likely add to the lore information somewhere.

Felderburg

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Re: Lore Project
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2010, 01:43:08 PM »
The timeline's okay, although looking at it I notice there are 2 (possibly 3) types of citations used... now that's jacked up.

Anyways, regarding the comments on the use of "God" in the races section: I realize the term comes from CoH itself, it's just that there are multiple gods, so a plural would perhaps be better? Especially given the connotation of the term "God" in our culture. Might be best to make it clear you mean "the bunches of CoX gods" rather than "the One big deity" of some religion.

Anyways, I feel that most of my comments on your project are nitty-gritty details type things, when you should probably be focusing on the larger, general sorting of lore related things, so sorry about that.
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I'm working on sorting the Lore AMAs so that questions are easily found and linked: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Lore_AMA/Sorted Tell me what you think!

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Durakken

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Re: Lore Project
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2010, 02:34:28 PM »
The entire war of the gods section is wrong... the source says something completely different than what the timeline says... it's ok I'm fixing it ^.^ and not to mention Merulina is a godlike being and not a god.

A god is a god. Let people want to think what they want. If they can't come to grips with their terminology that's on them. All races are in the Singular. All races in the list are capitalized. To change it would be silly.



And I'm hoping people will start helping me with this as Statesman has taken me 2 days off an on to get done mainly do to format changes, citing, and finding the info... I'm hoping once I get the framework done, like it almost is people will add it where it needs adding. Doesn't seem to be working yet >.>

Blondeshell

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Re: Lore Project
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2010, 05:04:37 PM »
Just to chime in here with a tidbit from my project (the CCG) that might help clarify the Statesman page.  His Signature Power is called Zeus' Lightning Bolt on his card, with his powersets being Invulnerability and Super Strength.  Sometimes heroes have a power that doesn't fit nicely into the design of their regular powersets, basically a one-off power.  If that's what your people entries are going to have, I'd suggest using the "Signature Power" term to maintain some consistency through the wiki, at least until we learn more about the Incarnate system.

Durakken

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Re: Lore Project
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2010, 11:35:50 PM »
So the basic framework is pretty much done... so I guess it's time to look for whether or not it should be moved to the main wiki... to go beyond what I've done already would result in double the work with re-editing all the link necessary to move the pages...

http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/User:Durakken/Lore

Aggelakis

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Re: Lore Project
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2010, 12:18:03 AM »
IMO, having the basic framework done does not say whether this is good enough to be included in the wiki.

IMO, everything that has so far been included in your lore project works just as well on their main wiki pages. The Lore/Primal Earth/Statesman page? All that can be included on the Statesman page (or is there already).

I am voting against the project currently. Until you figure out something to the project that can't be simply added to the main wiki pages, my vote won't change.
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Durakken

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Re: Lore Project
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2010, 12:33:47 AM »
IMO, having the basic framework done does not say whether this is good enough to be included in the wiki.

IMO, everything that has so far been included in your lore project works just as well on their main wiki pages. The Lore/Primal Earth/Statesman page? All that can be included on the Statesman page (or is there already).

I am voting against the project currently. Until you figure out something to the project that can't be simply added to the main wiki pages, my vote won't change.

The fact that it took 2 days to compile and reference all of that information for Statesman shows how bad the format of the main wiki is for Lore. That 1 page alone proves my reasoning. Especially considering it's Statesman... the character with the most information about him that should be easily found.

Yes it could be added to the Statesman page that is already but why? People looking for Lore want Lore and people who are looking for mechanics and such want that. Separating the two is the best way to best serve both types of people looking for information.

Aggelakis

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Re: Lore Project
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2010, 12:36:41 AM »
What about the people, like me, like most players, who want both lore and mechanics?

Who are you to say that lore and mechanics can't go on the same page? There's plenty of that already existent on the wiki.

My position does not change. Improve the wiki, sure, add lore to the existing pages... you have yet to show that this project can't be incorporated into the main wiki pages.
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Durakken

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Re: Lore Project
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2010, 12:54:49 AM »
"Improve the wiki"

How does adding more to a badly formatted and confused page help?

Why is it badly formatted? I dunno why, but it is obviously confused, and because it is trying to incorporate lore and mechanics it does neither well and not to mention that the format doesn't extend to other pages so the overall wiki looks more confused as it is currently.

If I go in and fix all the pages that are currently up it would be like creating a new main thing anyways and it wouldn't be as well linked together and easy to find your way around. So to ask to do that you get less from the overall work that is being done.

Felderburg

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Re: Lore Project
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2010, 02:37:10 AM »
How does adding more to a badly formatted and confused page help?

I would argue that the Statesman page is not confusing in the least. I think a middle ground here, with an easier way to format/guide people through linking to lore specific sections would be nice, but there doesn't need to be an entirely separate lore wiki/project.

I will also say that there are indeed some pages that are completely useless for lore. The Shadow Shard page, for example, tells me pretty much zero information whatsoever (http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Shadow_Shard).
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I'm working on sorting the Lore AMAs so that questions are easily found and linked: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Lore_AMA/Sorted Tell me what you think!

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Durakken

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Re: Lore Project
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2010, 02:51:56 AM »
I would argue that the Statesman page is not confusing in the least. I think a middle ground here, with an easier way to format/guide people through linking to lore specific sections would be nice, but there doesn't need to be an entirely separate lore wiki/project.

not confusing... Confused. As in it doesn't know what it is trying to convey to the reader so it ultimately conveys very little.