Author Topic: Mission articles  (Read 17381 times)

Sekoia

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Mission articles
« on: September 20, 2010, 02:24:59 AM »
Back in March 2009, I posted this: Ideas for contact/mission articles. Lots of ideas and even some consensus in support of them, but it never really went anywhere.

Well, I'd like to start working on it again. It seemed there was consensus in support of splitting missions out into their own articles. At this point, I'd like to seek discussion and consensus on two points.

#1: Should missions go in the global namespace or should we put them in a new Mission: namespace? The previous discussion seemed to lean towards using the Mission namespace.

#2: What information do we want to leave behind in Contact articles? Is a simple link sufficient? If not, what details are important to keep there?

There's lots more than will need to be ironed out, but those seem like some solid points to start with.

taosin

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Re: Mission articles
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2010, 03:32:36 AM »
I've no real idea of the impact these changes might have, but reducing page size is a good idea in many cases; and having a Mission namespace sounds cool if it makes the same information accessible via different mechanisms (Indexes, for example).

I do value being able to look at a Contact and see all of their information "at a glance"; I could certainly live with clicking on a link on a Contact's page to go to their story arc or missions (if this is what the outcome of these changes are); although I'd like to be able to "flick back" to the Contact easily.

With the delivery of any new tool that evolves the preferred manner for the wiki to handle things, I'd like to see a brief succinct synopsis for editors like myself (and also newcomers) so that we use the new features "properly" and in the manner intended.
• Taosin (Sydney, Australia)

Aggelakis

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Re: Mission articles
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2010, 03:41:35 AM »
Missions should definitely go into their own namespace. It's the most elegant solution, otherwise you clutter the main namespace with hundreds (thousands?!) of short pages that are intended to function as a "stepping stones" for a contact's story arc.

I would keep the souvenir and an overview of the missions (how many missions, enemies, temp powers granted, badges). Otherwise, hide everything else under a link. HOWEVER... (you knew I would try to make wrinkles in this, admit it)

I think there should be a dedicated page for the story arc so that we still maintain a "full story arc layout" like we do now, with all of the missions listed one after the other. I think the best way to do this is to (<onlyinclude> <includeonly>? I can never keep those straight) the non-{{Infobox Mission}} details and transclude them into the story arc page. (Similar to how we are currently templatizing common missions to include in multiple contacts' pages.)

I know *I* prefer to see the whole list of missions so I can scroll through and see what's all left.
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Sekoia

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Re: Mission articles
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2010, 03:55:39 AM »
I could certainly live with clicking on a link on a Contact's page to go to their story arc or missions (if this is what the outcome of these changes are); although I'd like to be able to "flick back" to the Contact easily.

Yep, that's the direction I'm hoping for. I'm hoping to put some sort of {{Infobox Mission}} on each mission article that includes (among other things) a list of contacts that offer the mission; so that would let you flick back easily.

With the delivery of any new tool that evolves the preferred manner for the wiki to handle things, I'd like to see a brief succinct synopsis for editors like myself (and also newcomers) so that we use the new features "properly" and in the manner intended.

That's something that we often overlook unfortunately. :-[ But I think with something of this scope, you're right, it'd be vital.

I know *I* prefer to see the whole list of missions so I can scroll through and see what's all left.

When you're scrolling, what are you looking at? (Or, what aren't you looking at?)

For arcs, I was hoping to put "Previous Mission" and "Next Mission" links in the Infobox for easy browsing. I figured each arc would probably still get its own page, though I figured it'd still serve as an overview instead of transcluding the full thing.

eabrace

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Re: Mission articles
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2010, 05:14:29 AM »
When you're scrolling, what are you looking at? (Or, what aren't you looking at?)

What I am looking at when I'm scrolling through:

1)  The number of missions in an arc.  How many missions are left in this arc?

2)  Mission objectives.  How long is it going to take me to work through the rest and get on to the badge mission?  How many of the remaining missions are "defeat all", and how many can I short?

3)  Sometimes, notable NPCs.  Am I going to need a whole team to take down an AV?

What I am not looking at when I scroll through:

1)  Dialogue - both contact and NPC.
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Aggelakis

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Re: Mission articles
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2010, 05:53:47 AM »
I'm looking for pretty much everything Eabrace stated. Enemies. Mission types. How MANY missions...does this mission link to the next, or can I take a break? Pretty much everything but NPC dialogue/clues. I actually do look for the contact dialogue (briefings/etc), as that centers me on where I am in the arc more than mission titles (I basically never pay attention to mission titles) or anything else. All on one page, at a quick scrolling glance.
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taosin

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Re: Mission articles
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2010, 11:33:43 AM »
... and if the mission is timed! Highlighted.
• Taosin (Sydney, Australia)

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Re: Mission articles
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2010, 05:21:56 PM »
When using a Wiki article to follow along an a TF, e.g., I really want to quickly scan the page to find the objective I see in my navbar both outside the mission and inside (that text changes) so I know I'm looking at the right mission. Then, I want to see the objective(s) of the navbar as seen inside the mission. Then, I want to see the Editor's Comment that clarifies the objective.

So, e.g.,:

Mission 1: Go and investigate the warehouse and see if anything tries to kill you.

Navigation Description: Investigate Warehouse.
EdNote: Zones: Kings Row, Galaxy City, Steel Canyon.

Mission Description: Scour Warehouse for Clues
Mission Objectives: Search 3 Desks
EdNote: Though it doesn't say so, this is a kill-all mission.


Mission 2: etc....

Sekoia

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Re: Mission articles
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2010, 03:08:14 PM »
This is pretty big in scope, so it's probably best handled in steps. As a first step, let's move all of the Missions to a new Mission: namespace.

I've configured the wiki to add the Mission: namespace. This namespace will be included in searches by default. It's also configured as a content namespace, so Special:Random will land there sometimes and Special:Statistics will include it in its numbers.

Here's what I propose we do: simply move existing missions to the new namespace, and update the old articles to transclude them. So for example, Azuria has a mission "Take on the Hellions and show them they aren't welcome". This would get moved to an article "Mission:Take on the Hellions and show them they aren't welcome". Then the Azuria article would transclude it as {{Mission:Take on the Hellions and show them they aren't welcome}}.

This single step will consolidate all of the mission material into a single namespace, and will drastically shorten the contact articles' internal representation making them more manageable for editing. However, the contact articles will otherwise look the same.

I think this is a solid step to make. Even if we never progress past this step, it's still worth doing. And if we do progress past this step, this is something that would have to get done first; it's better to do it first, than try to do too many other (more complicated) things at once along with it.

I haven't moved any missions around yet. Are there any objections to moving ahead with this particular step?

eabrace

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Re: Mission articles
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2010, 06:20:23 PM »
Sounds like a good first step to me.

Should we tag them with any categories?  For example:
Code: [Select]
<noinclude>[[Category:Azuria Missions]]</noinclude>
Other tags we might use:
Code: [Select]
[[Category:Story Arc Missions]]
[[Category:Non Arc Missions]]
[[Category:Task Force Missions]]
[[Category:Strike Force Missions]]
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Sekoia

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Re: Mission articles
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2010, 07:42:24 PM »
We should probably categorize them, but I'm not sure how. We currently have some categories started for missions under Category:Mission Templates:

http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Category:Badge_Mission_Templates
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Category:Common_Hero_Mission_Templates (has subcategories by level)
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Category:Introduction_Mission_Templates
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Category:Mayhem_Missions_Templates
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Category:Safeguard_Missions_Templates
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Category:Story_Arc_Templates

For now, I'm inclined to hold off on small specific categories like [[Category:Azuria Missions]]. That's going to create a ton of categories, and it's likely to get handled by templates later. (If we put an infobox or something similar on the page, it'll likely have fields for contacts. Those can trigger such categories, if we want them.)

A few high-level categories do seem appropriate though. More specific categories can be migrated in later.

Aggelakis

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Re: Mission articles
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2010, 12:40:15 AM »
Item the first
So what happens when a bunch of contacts have the same mission name? e.g. "Get him!" from Bob Dole and "Get him!" from Jim Bean and "Get him!" from Aunt Jemima.

Instead of specially flagging conflicting missions only, I propose instead to incorporate the Story Arc name into every mission.

[Contact: Bob Dole]
Mission: Without Wit - Inventing the internet
Mission: Without Wit - Get him!
Mission: Without Wit - Let's pretend he never said that


[Contact: Jim Bean]
Mission: It's Happy Hour - There can be only one
Mission: It's Happy Hour - Jim Bob Billy Joe Jedediah
Mission: It's Happy Hour - Get him!


[Contact: Aunt Jemima]
Mission: Makin' Pancakes - Get him!
Mission: Makin' Pancakes - These pancakes taste great


This has the possibility of creating long page names, but it won't have duplicate mission names except for the very few times a story arc will have missions with the same name. Those we can solve with "(#)" on the end, for duplicated mission names after the first one (so "Get him!" "Get him! (2)" "Get him! (3)")

For missions that exist outside story arcs, I suggest adding the contact name instead of the story arc name -
Mission: Aunt Jemima - Bake those biscuits!
- and for missions outside story arcs that are common to multiple contacts, go with similar to what we've been doing -
Mission: Common - Talk to the Security Chief (Atlas Park)

Item the second
What are we designating a "mission"? For instance, The Pilgrim has a one-mission story arc that involves eleven different mission parts.

IMO, all of the eleven parts should go in one mission page; they're simply parts of the mission "Join Ouroboros".

However, they are all missions in and of themselves, and as such could technically all be separated out into individual Mission: articles.

For a less extreme example, Azuria's first mission is a two-parter, a defeat some Hellions mission and then a door mission. It's followed by four more single-serving missions. Would this mini-arc be five Mission: articles (the two parts of the first mission all in one article) or six Mission: articles (separating the two)?

Keep in mind that you only get the Briefing text at the beginning of the first part of the multi-part missions. Otherwise, calling/visiting the contact between missions only gives us Unnecessary Solicitation.





(which btw, only somewhat related, we totally need to rename "Unnecessary Solicitation" to something less weird sounding, like "Unsolicited Exchange")
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Sekoia

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Re: Mission articles
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2010, 01:02:26 AM »
Item the first: I can get behind those suggestions.

Item the second: Yeegads, that's an ugly question. I'm inclined to keep multi-part missions together, but I can see an argument for the other direction as well.

(which btw, only somewhat related, we totally need to rename "Unnecessary Solicitation" to something less weird sounding, like "Unsolicited Exchange")

Honestly, I think both of those sound weird. :P Mission Architect calls this "Still Busy Dialog", I believe.

eabrace

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Re: Mission articles
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2010, 01:06:57 AM »
"Still Busy" isn't a bad idea.  Makes it easier to figure out if you're familiar with AE, too.
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Aggelakis

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Re: Mission articles
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2010, 01:27:35 AM »
I thought of Still Busy, but in the wiki context and the general game context (outside of MA), being "busy" generally refers to being completely full of missions ("too busy" subheader on every contact page). Do we risk the confusion?
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Sekoia

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Re: Mission articles
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2010, 06:06:36 PM »
Okay, I drafted something that coveres article scope and naming. Please give feedback! :)
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Paragon_Wiki:Mission_articles

eabrace

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Re: Mission articles
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2010, 10:03:14 PM »
Looks pretty good.  The explanations laid out are short and concise and (at least to me) convey all the necessary information for how to name a mission article.
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eabrace

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Re: Mission articles
« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2010, 10:15:55 PM »
On a related note:

I was looking at the TipChoice template after trying to iron out Alignment/Tip terminology.

Shouldn't it be possible for characters to have up to three options on a tip?  For example, shouldn't a Vigilante have Hero, Vigilante, and Villain options from the same tip depending on where they open it?  Or are you not able to open a tip obtained in the Rogue Isles when you travel back to Paragon City?  (Still figuring out some of the specifics of the system myself.)

At any rate, if there is a possibility of three options per tip, this might come in handy.

Code: [Select]
<includeonly>{{#if: {{{align3|}}}
|{{{!}} align="center" width="90%"
{{!}}-
{{!}} align="center" width="33%" {{!}} {{divbox| {{#switch: {{{align1|}}}
| hero
| Hero  = blue
| villain
| Villain = red
| black
}}|[[File:Align Status {{ucfirst: {{{align1|Missing Input [align1]}}} }}.png{{!}}24px]] {{uc: {{{align1}}} }}|''{{{choice1|Missing Input [choice1]}}}''}}
{{!}} align="center" width="33%" {{!}} {{divbox| {{#switch: {{{align2|}}}
| rogue
| Rogue  = yellow
| vigilante
| Vigilante = yellow
| black
}}|[[File:Align Status {{ucfirst: {{{align2|Missing Input [align2]}}} }}.png{{!}}24px]] {{uc: {{{align2}}} }}|''{{{choice2|Missing Input [choice2]}}}''}}
{{!}} align="center" width="33%" {{!}} {{divbox| {{#switch: {{{align3|}}}
| hero
| Hero  = blue
| villain
| Villain = red
| black
}}|[[File:Align Status {{ucfirst: {{{align3|Missing Input [align3]}}} }}.png{{!}}24px]] {{uc: {{{align3}}} }}|''{{{choice3|Missing Input [choice3]}}}''}}
{{!}}}
|{{{!}} align="center" width="90%"
{{!}}-
{{!}} align="center" width="50%" {{!}} {{divbox| {{#switch: {{{align1|}}}
| hero
| Hero  = blue
| villain
| Villain = red
| black
}}|[[File:Align Status {{ucfirst: {{{align1|Missing Input [align1]}}} }}.png{{!}}24px]] {{uc: {{{align1}}} }}|''{{{choice1|Missing Input [choice1]}}}''}}
{{!}} align="center" width="50%" {{!}} {{divbox| {{#switch: {{{align2|}}}
| rogue
| Rogue  = yellow
| vigilante
| Vigilante = yellow
| black
}}|[[File:Align Status {{ucfirst: {{{align2|Missing Input [align2]}}} }}.png{{!}}24px]] {{uc: {{{align2}}} }}|''{{{choice2|Missing Input [choice2]}}}''}}
{{!}}}
}}
</includeonly><noinclude>{{Documentation}} [[Category:Alignment Templates]]</noinclude>
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Aggelakis

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Re: Mission articles
« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2010, 12:40:31 AM »
There is one tip option available to heroes: hero/vigilante.
There are two tip options available to vigilantes: hero/vigilante, or vigilante/villain. There is never a triple option; tip missions obtained in Paragon City will be hero/vigilante, tip missions obtained in Rogue Isles will be rogue/villain.
There are two tip options available to rogues: hero/rogue, or rogue/villain. (Same as above.)
There is one tip option available to villains: rogue/villain.
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taosin

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Re: Mission articles
« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2010, 05:05:24 AM »
Okay, I drafted something that coveres article scope and naming. Please give feedback! :)
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Paragon_Wiki:Mission_articles

Very clear and Concise, I like it.

Perhaps create a category for editors to read that includes all the guides and canon for editing the wiki and creating new articles, and have this article as part of that?

Is there anywhere written how to see a list of mission templates and then create the appropriate mission article? (I may be missing something here)
• Taosin (Sydney, Australia)