Author Topic: Mission articles  (Read 25985 times)

Felderburg

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Re: Mission articles
« Reply #40 on: September 22, 2011, 04:42:09 AM »
That is true, I didn't think of that.  I just wanted to make the infobox as comprehensive as possible. :shrug:


Edit: I see that Azuria has her missions all in the new format, but it seems to me like her article is just as long.  Is she just not finished?
« Last Edit: September 22, 2011, 04:51:09 AM by Felderburg »
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eabrace

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Re: Mission articles
« Reply #41 on: September 22, 2011, 02:02:13 PM »
Edit: I see that Azuria has her missions all in the new format, but it seems to me like her article is just as long.  Is she just not finished?
Azuria's page appears the same on the surface now as it did before the missions were moved to the Mission namespace.  That's intentional.  Casual users won't have to adjust to anything new.

The changes are all under the hood.  Before moving missions to their own namespace and transcluding, the source of the page was 11,452 bytes.  It is now 3,145 bytes.
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Felderburg

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Re: Mission articles
« Reply #42 on: September 22, 2011, 05:13:39 PM »
Azuria's page appears the same on the surface now as it did before the missions were moved to the Mission namespace.  That's intentional.  Casual users won't have to adjust to anything new.

The changes are all under the hood.  Before moving missions to their own namespace and transcluding, the source of the page was 11,452 bytes.  It is now 3,145 bytes.

Ok, that's good, because as a semi-casual user I prefer the way contacts look.  However, I have to note that in the original archived thread, it looked like the intent for this change was to make the actual appearance short and more streamlined, so I was just wondering about that.

Also, to satisfy my curiosity, is the change in bytes really important?  I mean, don't the new mission articles + contact articles add up to the same amount (or more) of bytes?  I know enough to know how to edit an article, but I'm no computer person, so that reasoning will need to be explained.

Additionally, this format change really out to be publicized.  I had seen individual mission articles, but had no idea what they were meant for, or that the contacts' articles were being changed to transclude until it happened to be brought up in another thread.  For example, Lt. Harris' article was just finished, but it was done in the old format.  Additionally, a casual user seeing a typo or something will have to know to edit the individual sections of a contact, rather then the main edit button, otherwise they'll be wondering what the heck is going on when they don't see the dialog they wanted to edit.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2011, 05:19:22 PM by Felderburg »
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GuyPerfect

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Re: Mission articles
« Reply #43 on: September 22, 2011, 05:19:47 PM »
The data size issue was how much text was being loaded into the edit box at once. That's generally not a problem nowadays, but older browsers (I think IE6 among them) would stop loading characters at 32kb and you'd lose article data.

eabrace

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Re: Mission articles
« Reply #44 on: September 22, 2011, 05:41:04 PM »
Additionally, this format change really out to be publicized.  I had seen individual mission articles, but had no idea what they were meant for, or that the contacts' articles were being changed to transclude until it happened to be brought up in another thread.  For example, Lt. Harris' article was just finished, but it was done in the old format.

I have to admit I've been guilty of adding new contacts and missions without using the Mission namespace myself quite frequently.  I need to be more conscious of that since it's a matter of habit for me to do it the old way.

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Additionally, a casual user seeing a typo or something will have to know to edit the individual sections of a contact, rather then the main edit button, otherwise they'll be wondering what the heck is going on when they don't see the dialog they wanted to edit.

In my mind (emphasis!), as soon as a person clicks "Edit" for the first time, they've stepped from "casual user" to "semi-casual user" or "casual editor".  So, when I mention casual users, I'm speaking specifically about people who only look up information on the wiki for reference, not anyone who actually enters or corrects information.  I know most of my SG members would often point out things on the wiki to me if they found errors so that I could fix them, but not one of them ever registered a Titan ID or considered editing a page themselves.  Those are the kind of people I have in mind when I say "casual user".

Your definition of casual user is probably different from mine.

That being said, I think in most cases that if someone spots an error, they're going to click on the nearest, most convenient "Edit" link.  And most of the time, that's not going to be the one at the top of the page.  If they click the "Edit" link at the top of a mission, they'll be taken to the Mission's page to edit, which is where they want to be.  They'll only end up looking at a transclusion reference if they click the "Edit" tab at the top of an article.
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Felderburg

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Re: Mission articles
« Reply #45 on: September 22, 2011, 06:03:39 PM »
Your definition of casual user is probably different from mine.

That being said, I think in most cases that if someone spots an error, they're going to click on the nearest, most convenient "Edit" link.  And most of the time, that's not going to be the one at the top of the page.  If they click the "Edit" link at the top of a mission, they'll be taken to the Mission's page to edit, which is where they want to be.  They'll only end up looking at a transclusion reference if they click the "Edit" tab at the top of an article.

You're probably right about our definitions.  At any rate, in my personal experience, when I started editing the wiki, I used the top page edit button.  I still tend to use it most often, rather than section edit buttons.  I don't know why that's the case, but it is what it is...  and I operate under the assumption that if I do something, at least a few other people will as well.  Which is why this change needs to be publicized.

Now, getting to definitions...  I would say I categorize people into readers, casual editors, and editors (more of continuum than three distinct groups, but this'll work for now).  A casual editor is someone who, seeing a typo, or something missing, or whatever, says "I can fix that!" and proceeds to do so.  They generally don't create articles, they don't frequent the forums, they just fix minor things.

Now, when someone starts moving up to full on editor, they start creating pages, making larger edits, contributing more.  However, they haven't seen the forums.  So, in the case of Lt. Harris, for example, the user creating that page may not* have seen the forums.  They saw an article that they could contribute, and decided to add it.  They've only seen the majority of contacts, still in the old format, and thought "Hey, if I just copy this, and put in the correct info, I'll be done!"

So that's why this change needs to be publicized.  How?  I don't know, but it ought to be done, to prevent more articles being created improperly.

*I don't know if this is actually the case with the two people who worked on that article.
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eabrace

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Re: Mission articles
« Reply #46 on: September 22, 2011, 08:54:13 PM »
So, in the case of Lt. Harris, for example, the user creating that page may not* have seen the forums.  They saw an article that they could contribute, and decided to add it.  They've only seen the majority of contacts, still in the old format, and thought "Hey, if I just copy this, and put in the correct info, I'll be done!"

And there's nothing inherently wrong with that, really.  It's not that much work for someone who spends a lot more time editing and is more familiar with the state of where we're headed (probably because they frequent the forums) to come along and polish the article into its final form by moving the individual missions to the Mission namespace.  Honestly, the hardest part in creating a new contact article is just getting all of the info down.  Formatting's the easy part.

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So that's why this change needs to be publicized.  How?

The easiest way I can think of would be to leave a note on the contributing editor's User Talk page to make sure they know about the newer format.  But since we still haven't gotten all the old articles converted, it's not that big of an issue yet.

Quote
I don't know, but it ought to be done, to prevent more articles being created improperly.

As long as people are adding the info, I'm not that worried about format as the new info is being introduced.  The only clear case I can see where I'd actually step in and interrupt (for now, anyway) would be if someone started converting an article from the newer format to the older format.  :)
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Felderburg

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Re: Mission articles
« Reply #47 on: September 22, 2011, 09:35:17 PM »
Honestly, the hardest part in creating a new contact article is just getting all of the info down.  Formatting's the easy part.

Fair enough.  Thanks to everyone who explained stuff to me in this thread; I'd been away from CoX and the Wiki for a while, so I didn't know what was going on.
I used CIT before they even joined the Titan network! But then I left for a long ol' time, and came back. Now I edit the wiki.

I'm working on sorting the Lore AMAs so that questions are easily found and linked: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Lore_AMA/Sorted Tell me what you think!

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eabrace

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Re: Mission articles
« Reply #48 on: September 23, 2011, 03:31:58 AM »
Fair enough.  Thanks to everyone who explained stuff to me in this thread; I'd been away from CoX and the Wiki for a while, so I didn't know what was going on.
Welcome back.  :)

If nothing else, bringing up the subject for further discussion reminded me that we never got very far converting all of the existing content into the new format.  :D
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eabrace

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Re: Mission articles
« Reply #49 on: September 30, 2011, 06:47:32 PM »
Quick general question on missions regarding story arcs:

Do we also intend to move the Souvenirs to the Mission namespace?  I ask because I noticed that the Division: Line souvenir is currently located in the Mission namespace and categorized under Angus McQueen Missions.  By contrast, the souvenirs for the other arcs I've run into so far (A Faultline in the Sands of Time, A Hand of Iron, The Library of Souls, The Tsoo Coup, The Vahzilok Plague, and The Wheel of Destruction) are located in the Main namespace and categorized under Souvenir Templates.

I don't have a problem with it if we want to move the souvenirs as well, but I'd like to straighten that out while I only have to backtrack through a handful of arcs so I can hit the rest as I go.

In either event, I don't know that I agree with categorizing them under "missions".  If we want to move them to the Mission namespace, I would suggest a "souvenir" category.
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Re: Mission articles
« Reply #50 on: September 30, 2011, 06:56:28 PM »
I really don't think Souviners belong in the Mission: namespace; that's the first step towards completely undermining the point of having a separate namespace for missions. Let's keep them in the Main namespace.

For that matter, those story arcs you link to don't belong in the Mission namespace, either. If we want a separate article for an arc, it should go in the main namespace. (ie. "A Faultline in the Sands of Time" instead of "Mission:StoryArc A Faultline in the Sands of Time")

The Mission namespace is intended for missions. Neither souvenirs nor story arcs are missions.

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Re: Mission articles
« Reply #51 on: September 30, 2011, 08:59:07 PM »
I agree on keeping the Souvenirs in the main namespace.  I just wanted to bounce it off of everyone else rather than making a decision on my own.

I suppose I can see your point on the arcs.  I had moved them to the Mission namespace because - in my mind, at least - an arc is simply a collection of missions, so it made sense to me.  But I can move them back without much effort.
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Re: Mission articles
« Reply #52 on: September 30, 2011, 09:27:14 PM »
Story Arcs and Task Forces are in the same boat as collections of missions. In fact, I would say that a Task Force is a specialized kind of Story Arc. So wherever we put Story Arcs, we should also put Task Forces, IMO. Or vice versa.

If we want to separate out arcs from the main namespace, then I'd recommend we create a special namespace for them of their own -- distinct from the main and Mission namespaces. I'm perfectly content keeping them in the main namespace, but am not opposed to a special namespace if we can come up with an appropriate name that works for the different kinds of arcs.

Somewhat moot if the articles get moved, but still worth noting: The Mission namespace is an article namespace, not a template namespace. (The naming scheme you used with the StoryArc prefix feels very templately to me.) Even though we transclude from it, those are still all articles of their own right. They come up in searches and everything. (In fact, that's part of why I feel the namespace should be restricted to only missions. If it were a supplemental template namespace, I wouldn't really be as opposed to stuffing mission-related stuff in it.)

eabrace

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Re: Mission articles
« Reply #53 on: October 12, 2011, 05:20:57 PM »
StoryArc templates have now been moved back from the Mission namespace to the Template namespace.
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