Author Topic: City of Data Definitions  (Read 4659 times)

ruleofsigns

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City of Data Definitions
« on: September 21, 2010, 07:12:04 PM »
Hi

I want to thank both Red Tomax and the TitanNetwork for the work they have done on City of Data.  I only have one real complaint.   You do not define what you mean by things like ACC, dam, act, and so forth.   

I have been able to decipher all but the Dam.  What scale are we looking at? Is this the brawl index?  or Some other multiplier?

Maybe you should add a page with definitions to make this more accessible.

Thanks again.

Aggelakis

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Re: City of Data Definitions
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2010, 07:25:14 PM »
Damage is actual damage. That's how much damage the attack does without any enhancements or buffs, at level 50.

Brawl Index is "so last year". :p
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Fleeting Whisper

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Re: City of Data Definitions
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2010, 04:32:08 AM »
I don't see DAM used anywhere in City of Data. I see "<type> damage" for attacks, and DMG for damage de/buffs. DEF is used for defense de/buffs, RES for resistance de/buffs (both damage resistance and other forms of resistance, such as heal or knockback resistance), and ToHit for tohit de/buffs. Accuracy buffs (enhancements and Focused Accuracy) use "Accuracy". Regen and recovery use "Regeneration" and "Recovery", rech uses "RechargeTime".

I'm sorry, but I'm lost as to where you're getting lost! ;)

As far as the numbers go, though...
X <type> damage means exactly that, for an unenhanced power of the selected AT.
X% <de/buff> means eactly that, for an unenhanced power of the selected AT.

Things get tricky when you run into a situation such as "X.YZ <de/buff>": the number is the percentage as a real number. So, for example, "DEF(All) +0.2" means +20%, not +0.2%

Things start to get into behind-the-scenes territory if you select "Unspecified" for the archetype. Then, the numbers are actually a scalar value*, multiplied by a modifier dependent on the AT and level; except for damage, the unspecified view should link to the appropriate modifiers table. Some powers use the Ranged_Ones or Melee_Ones table, both of which are 1.0 for all ATs at all levels. Attacks almost always use Ranged_Damage or Melee_Damage, appropriate to the type of attack. Besides being how the game actually calculates things, you can use this to see how a power would look if given to another AT without any changes.

* As Agge says, few people talk about Brawl Index, and haven't for some time. Damage comparisons across ATs use "Damage Scale", which is the scalar value for an attack before being multiplied by Ranged_Damage or Melee_Damage.

For example, if you look at "Unspecified" for Blazing Arrow, you'll see the following:
  • 1.96 Lethal damage
  • 5 * 0.13 Fire damage

That's scale 1.96 Lethal, and 5 ticks of scale 0.13 Fire damage, for a total of scale 2.61 damage. Damage scale is also part of the development process. If you look, a T1 blast is almost always approximately scale 1 damage. A T2 blast is ~1.64. Nukes tend to be scale 3, plus 75% for an extra scale 1.5, plus 50% chance for another 1.5. Damage scale is also a factor when determining recharge time and endurance cost.

ruleofsigns

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Re: City of Data Definitions
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2010, 04:26:49 PM »
Ok, first let me refer you to thispage where my question occurs.  Second, you are correct that there is no Dam.  I meant DMG.  Sorry for the mix up.   I think your last paragraph answered my question.  However, if I wanted to translate a damage scaler of 2.61 into actual damage I would need to know what a damage scaler of 1 meant in points of damage.

I think it is rather odd that we stopped using the Brawl Index, even though it is just a scaler multiple of Brawl's damage to using a scaler multiple that is approximately based off a T1 blast.  Do we know what power the dmg scaler is actually based off of?

I have a degree in math, so this has made me particularly anal about having precise definitions when looking at data tables.  I was able to figure what all the other definition were or based on but the DMG one was not transparent.  I weird in that I like to know the definitions before I try to make conclusions from the data.   :D

Thanks for taking the time to answer me.


eabrace

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Re: City of Data Definitions
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2010, 06:24:11 PM »
I think it is rather odd that we stopped using the Brawl Index, even though it is just a scaler multiple of Brawl's damage to using a scaler multiple that is approximately based off a T1 blast.  Do we know what power the dmg scaler is actually based off of?

The damage scalar comes directly from in-game power definitions - no calculation required to get those numbers.  It is more accurate than Brawl Index because not only does Brawl not actually do the same amount of damage for each AT, it isn't even proportionally accurate between the primary and secondary sets on the same AT.  (For instance, Blasters at level 50 have a melee damage modifier of -55.610 and a ranged modifier of -62.562.)

For example.

Brawl has a damage scale of 0.360000.  This is true regardless of the entity using the power.  Tankers, Masterminds, Contaminated Brawlers... Brawl's damage scale is always 0.360000.

But how much damage would my Tanker actually do to a target (not accounting for resistances) if he hit it with Brawl?  Well, for that value, we multiply by the Melee Damage attribute modifier for Tankers at my level.

Level 1:  0.360000 * -9.600 = -3.456
Level 25:  0.360000 * -27.468 = -9.88848
Level 50:  0.360000 * -44.488 = -16.01568

Compared to the Melee Damage attributes for Blasters:

Level 1:  0.360000 * -10.000 = -3.6
Level 25:  0.360000 * -34.334 = -12.36024
Level 50:  0.360000 * -55.610 = -20.0196

So, what would our Brawl Index for those Tanker values be if we say that the Blaster's Brawl damage is our baseline?

Level 1:  0.9600
Level 25:  0.8000
Level 50:  0.8000

So, even Brawl Index isn't constant from level to level.

Further, when trying to compare the effectiveness of different powers Brawl Index is even less useful.

Comparing Foot Stomp to Blackstar (@ level 50, Blaster baseline):
Defender Blackstar: (4.875000 * -30.586)/-20.0196 = -149.10675 / -20.0196 = 7.4480
Corruptor Blackstar: (4.875000 * -41.708)/-20.0196 = -203.3265 / -20.0196 = 10.1563
Tanker Foot Stomp:  (1.420000 * -44.488)/-20.0196 = -63.17296 / -20.0196 = 3.1555
Brute Foot Stomp:  (1.420000 * -41.708)/-20.0196 = -59.22536 / -20.0196 = 2.9583

Notice that the Brawl Index value for Foot Stomp and Blackstar change depending on which AT you're looking at.  So, the answer you get will depend entirely on which ATs you're looking at.

If, however, you're only looking at the damage scale of the powers, Foot Stomp is 1.42 regardless of AT and Blackstar is 4.875 regardless of AT.  It's much easier to compare the powers that way.

And, let's imagine for a moment, that we want to see how much damage a level 50 Defender could do with if we proliferate Foot Stomp into a new Defender Ancillary Pool.  Using Brawl Index, there's just no real basis for comparison - especially since the BI would vary depending on ATs.  But if we use the damage scale and AT modifier:

Defender Foot Stomp:  1.420000 * -30.586 = -43.43212

We know exactly how effective the power would be.
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Fleeting Whisper

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Re: City of Data Definitions
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2010, 09:07:15 PM »
However, if I wanted to translate a damage scaler of 2.61 into actual damage I would need to know what a damage scaler of 1 meant in points of damage.

I think it is rather odd that we stopped using the Brawl Index, even though it is just a scaler multiple of Brawl's damage to using a scaler multiple that is approximately based off a T1 blast.  Do we know what power the dmg scaler is actually based off of?
Translating scalars (damage or otherwise) into the actual value is simply a matter of multiplying the value by the appropriate attribute modifier. Damage scalars have nothing to do with T1 blasts, rather T1 blasts are balanced by having the same (with a little bit of variance) scalar.

I see now where your confusion was coming from. Indeed, those tables display damage scalars, so the value should be multiplied by a value from the Melee_Damage or Ranged_Damage table, as appropriate. Alternatively, you can simply look at the page for a single powerset or a single power, rather than all the powersets for the AT, and you can view the calculated value (scalar * multiplier), rather than the scalar by itself.