Author Topic: Faction templates  (Read 3488 times)

Sekoia

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Faction templates
« on: January 19, 2012, 04:26:51 PM »
We make widespread use of faction templates, which we keep organized at Category:Enemy Link Templates. All are based on {{Enemy Link}}.

Originally, the game had very well defined, static factions. Then they started making changes that allowed them to be more flexible with what they stuck in that field, allowing them to change it on a given mob on a whim from one place to another. So what originally started as a fixed, concrete bit of identifying information has now evolved more into a descriptive piece of flavor.

A good example of this is "Famous Singer". In one of the recent SSA arcs, Johnny Sonata has "Famous Singer" listed as his faction. I would argue that there is no "Famous Singer" faction. It's a custom descriptor tossed on the character to be more interesting in the arc. It's a very different kind of thing than, for example, "Circle of Thorns".

I'm concerned that we're starting to slip down the slope into giving each and every one of these "factions" its own template and treating it just like we would a real faction. I just don't think that's constructive. I think the faction/enemy link stuff should be reserved for actual factions.

For the custom-named factions, I propose we start handling them differently. There's two cases here:

Sometimes, a custom descriptor is given to a group of enemies from a well-defined faction. For cases like this, I propose we extend the Enemy Link templates so that we can call them like so:

{{Enemy Arachnos|custom=Disgruntled Arachnos}}

Which would render as:

Arachnos (custom faction: Disgruntled Arachnos)

The other case is for special enemies who aren't from existing factions and are just sort of on their own. For that, I propose a new template {{Enemy Custom}}, to be used like so:

{{Enemy Custom|custom=Famous Singer}}

Which would render as:

(icon) Famous Singer (custom faction)

I don't know what icon we'd use. Maybe we'd also even want to allow the icons to be overridden on a case-by-case basis -- though I don't think we should create special icons for each and every one of these kinds of things. The point of the icon is that they're visually identifying for a known faction. One-off icons miss the point of that.

Thoughts? Or suggestions for a better solution?

eabrace

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Re: Faction templates
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2012, 05:04:05 PM »
I think a single template to accommodate all of the custom factions would be appropriate.  It would certainly save us from having to create a new template every time they create a one-off faction for a single NPC.

I think a default icon (probably the gladiator badge image) with an option for overriding the image would probably be our best bet.
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GuyPerfect

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Re: Faction templates
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2012, 07:43:34 PM »
Hey now, we've been over this! "Faction" is not the right word for Enemy Group!

At least people are finally referring to Alignment as something other than "faction."

Sekoia

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Re: Faction templates
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2012, 07:54:33 PM »
Hey now, we've been over this! "Faction" is not the right word for Enemy Group!

Neither are the right word for things like "Famous Singer".  ;D

Thirty-Seven

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Re: Faction templates
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2012, 09:54:54 PM »
As you know, I went through and created icons for all of the "factions" that used the ridiculously unhelpful Gladiator badge symbol... and I LOVE this idea.  I would suggest a slightly different approach in terms of the text that is displayed, but that is relatively minor and easy to fix.

To use your template call, I would prefer if:
{{Enemy Arachnos|custom=Disgrunted Arachnos}} yielded something more like: (ICON) Disgruntled Arachnos
Then, clicking on Disgruntled Arachnos could LINK to the regular arachnos page... no real need to add addition text in my eyes.

That brings us to the unique and one off groups like Famous Singer, and Demon Hunter:
{{Enemy Custom Faction|custom=Famous Singer}} would yield (ICON*) Famous Singer
In this case, we might need a new logo/icon that refers only to custom groups, and then use the Gladiator icon only for ordinary factions that have yet to have a logo/icon created for use with them.  However, this brings up an important question... where would Famous Singer's enemy link template LINK to?  Do we make a Custom Faction Name page that details the uses of this with what enemies are involved in which groups?  Or something more generic?  No where, it is just text and not a link at all?

Sekoia

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Re: Faction templates
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2012, 04:13:03 AM »
To use your template call, I would prefer if:
{{Enemy Arachnos|custom=Disgrunted Arachnos}} yielded something more like: (ICON) Disgruntled Arachnos
Then, clicking on Disgruntled Arachnos could LINK to the regular arachnos page... no real need to add addition text in my eyes.

I'm not sure... but I'm willing to try it that way. Nice thing about doing it as a template is that we can easily change the behavior later if we determine it's not working as well as we'd like. :)

However, this brings up an important question... where would Famous Singer's enemy link template LINK to?  Do we make a Custom Faction Name page that details the uses of this with what enemies are involved in which groups?  Or something more generic?  No where, it is just text and not a link at all?

I'd say just leave it as text and not link anywhere. We don't need to have it link anywhere if there's no place appropriate to link to.

Thirty-Seven

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Re: Faction templates
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2012, 06:19:18 PM »
I'd say just leave it as text and not link anywhere. We don't need to have it link anywhere if there's no place appropriate to link to.
Good call on that... as I was typing that last option, it was the one that made the most sense to me, but I wanted to make sure.