Author Topic: More Plan C+ questions: Paragon Wiki, Ouroboros Portal, and other repositories  (Read 5031 times)

chaparralshrub

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If Plan A is saving Paragon City, Plan B is getting another company (ideally Cryptic, or whoever hires the former Paragon devs) to buy CoH, then Plan C or D consists of archiving Paragon so that we can reference it and use it at some later time, hopefully in conjunction with with another company, or possibly by ourselves (plans Y and Z in City Sunset).

So, we need to archive as much as possible.

Paragon Wiki, probably the best source out there, belongs to Titan, and will stay up as long as we do, and even lose this battle, we're not going to give up easily.

Who owns Ouroboros Portal? Are they likely to be going anywhere any time soon?

I know that there are other CoH wikis and other data out there, but sadly I think one of them is on the Paragon site, and we have no control over whether that's going to stay up or not (maintaining a webpage is less costly than maintaining servers for an MMO, but there's no reason NCSoft won't simply bury it, too, if they are intending to bury CoH).

Are there any other archives/repositories of information out there that we need to catalog and/or protect?
« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 04:13:02 AM by chaparralshrub »

Codewalker

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Ouroboros Portal is a Titan Network site and is hosted on the same server as Paragon Wiki. The same login as you use for the forum should allow you to log in there. As long as there is interest, I don't think it will be going anywhere.

I don't believe the wiki admin staff is quite as active on that site as it's relatively low-traffic, but if it were to become more heavily used I'm sure that could change.

eabrace

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Ouroboros Portal is a Titan Network site and is hosted on the same server as Paragon Wiki. The same login as you use for the forum should allow you to log in there. As long as there is interest, I don't think it will be going anywhere.

I don't believe the wiki admin staff is quite as active on that site as it's relatively low-traffic, but if it were to become more heavily used I'm sure that could change.
I can't speak for the rest of the admins, but I try to make sure I check the recent changes over at the O-portal at least once a day.  (Paragon Wiki I check probably more like at least once every hour or two.)
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Thirty-Seven

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I check Ouro roughly daily for Recent Changes, and PWiki more like twice as much... but as of late, neither as often as I used to.

Thirty-Seven

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I know that there are other CoH wikis and other data out there, but sadly I think one of them is on the Paragon site, and we have no control over whether that's going to stay up or not (maintaining a webpage is less costly than maintaining servers for an MMO, but there's no reason NCSoft won't simply bury it, too, if they are intending to bury CoH).
I don't know of a wiki that is actually part of Paragon Studios.

chaparralshrub

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http://paragonwiki.com - who owns them?

Codewalker

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http://paragonwiki.com - who owns them?

Evil Incarnate. (Wikia; tried to find a link to a description that isn't owned by them, but they're such shameless search engine spammers that it's almost impossible)

However most of what's there is just an old, out of date copy of Paragon Wiki, since that's where it lived briefly.

If there's anything unique there that needs to be archived, sounds like a job for Rigel Kent. :P

eabrace

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Wikia.

Long story short:

Once upon a time (September 2005), Paragon Wiki was a little independent site all on its own, sitting on a server that was paid for and maintained by TonyV.  Wikia approached Tony a few times, offering to take over the hosting costs and responsibilities for Paragon Wiki in return for moving all of its content under the Wikia umbrella.  Eventually, Wikia and Tony found an amicable agreement and Paragon Wiki moved to Wikia (August 2007).  Over the next year, Wikia started modifying their advertising models and we started seeing things like advertisements embedded directly into articles, making it look like they were actually part of the wiki's content.  We finally decided we'd had enough and exported the entire contents of the wiki by virtue of the GNU FDL content license, transplanting it here into the Titan network (October 2008).  After a little armwrestling, we were able to get the Paragon Wiki name back from Wikia, at which point they re-branded their wiki the "City of Heroes Wiki".

That's the version without all the intertubes drama.  ;D
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eabrace

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If there's anything unique there that needs to be archived, sounds like a job for Rigel Kent. :P
Now, now.  Rigel's extended an effort to bury the hatchet.  But he is just about the only person who's making edits over there "that other wiki" lately.
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Codewalker

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Now, now.  Rigel's extended an effort to bury the hatchet.  But he is just about the only person who's making edits over there "that other wiki" lately.

I meant that more of as a "he would be the best person to talk to about the Wikia site" rather than a dig at him... Maybe with a tiny bit of humor mixed in -- if we can laugh at it then it's easier to get past.

chaparralshrub

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Either way, point being, there's not much over there that we don't have over here.

I notice quite a few images, mostly of characters and enemy groups, that seem not to be working on PW, but hopefully we have those on our computers somewhere.

And it sounds like these wikis are all that we currently have - which is a shame, perhaps. Maybe our "Play City of Heroes" campaign to keep the server traffic up should double as a surveying campaign to catalog as much of CoH as we can in the time that remains so that we will have it all for Paragon Wiki!

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What do you believe is not preserved?

eabrace

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I notice quite a few images, mostly of characters and enemy groups, that seem not to be working on PW, but hopefully we have those on our computers somewhere.
Please point those out if you find anything that appears not to be working properly on Paragon Wiki.  If something's broken, we need to be on top of that.

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Maybe our "Play City of Heroes" campaign to keep the server traffic up should double as a surveying campaign to catalog as much of CoH as we can in the time that remains so that we will have it all for Paragon Wiki!

Yes, if you feel that there's something specific missing from Paragon Wiki, let us know.  (Keeping in mind that PW is intended for info that isn't player generated.  That's the purpose of the Ouroportal wiki.)
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chaparralshrub

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What do you believe is not preserved?

Maps - we have maps of all of the zones, but not all of the missions.

Dialogue - all of the mission dialogue has been catalogued to my knowledge, but not the clues or the dialogue spoken by spawns in the zones, some of which are pretty amusing (e.g. Tsoo ninjas saying "those who live by the sword tend to get shot by those who don't").

Costumes - most of the major characters have images of them seen from the front, but not the side and back.

Animations - nowhere have I seen a catalog of all of the different animations that different models are capable of performing.

Enemy groups - some of the enemy groups are missing members. For example:


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Yes, if you feel that there's something specific missing from Paragon Wiki, let us know.  (Keeping in mind that PW is intended for info that isn't player generated.  That's the purpose of the Ouroportal wiki.)

Example: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Crey#Field_Agent

The Crey agents come in a variety of different appearances, costumes, and hairstyles. The female Crey agents available in Architect, for example, are brunettes and wear black outer suits with long pants, while the female Crey agent here is pictured with chestnut brown hair, a green tie, and a miniskirt.

eabrace

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Maps - we have maps of all of the zones, but not all of the missions.
In the Mission Objective Template there is a parameter for map (obtainable by "/whereami").  Most just haven't been recorded.

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Costumes - most of the major characters have images of them seen from the front, but not the side and back.
This one is of no concern.  All of that data can be obtained right off of your hard drive.

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Enemy groups - some of the enemy groups are missing members. For example:
The Crey agents come in a variety of different appearances, costumes, and hairstyles. The female Crey agents available in Architect, for example, are brunettes and wear black outer suits with long pants, while the female Crey agent here is pictured with chestnut brown hair, a green tie, and a miniskirt.
These can also be pulled from your hard drive.
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chaparralshrub

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Quote
In the Mission Objective Template there is a parameter for map (obtainable by "/whereami").  Most just haven't been recorded.

This is what we need to do then.


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This one is of no concern.  All of that data can be obtained right off of your hard drive.

Great - I do not know how to access them, but as long as someone here does, they aren't lost!


Sounds like the maps are what we need to get - and while we do it, we keep the server traffic up, as a side benefit! :)

Flashtoo

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Even if we can't find anyone else to buy the IP, these repositories are still useful to us, the players - as long as we have all the source material saved, campaign settings for tabletop games can be written. Not the same, I know, but it would leave us with something should our efforts fail.

chaparralshrub

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Quote
Even if we can't find anyone else to buy the IP, these repositories are still useful to us, the players - as long as we have all the source material saved, campaign settings for tabletop games can be written. Not the same, I know, but it would leave us with something should our efforts fail.

This is why I'm pushing that we do this, for exactly this reason!

Also, if somebody does wind up making CoH2, or even a spiritual successor, these repositories will be useful as inspiration if nothing else - especially if it's plan Z and we're the ones who are making it.

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I've already recreated my Fortunata and my Time manipulator, both of whom are pretty heavy concept-driven - complicated concepts; the Fortunata is an attention-manipulating demigod while the Time manipulator, better represented by Kinetics (he predates Time), treats time as a substance that can be moved around and stolen from enemies rather than a process that can be sped/slowed/reversed - in Mutants and Masterminds 2nd Edition. By doing so I have determined exactly how flexible the rules are... a friend of mine has an even-more-convoluted Peacebringer, and she managed to even build him.