In Game Advertisements

[TimtheEnchanter]

Another thing is... are radio missions randomly generated as far as story content? Always wondered about this. Because if so, sponsors could also pay to just get their name in one of the random strings for those missions, and then instead of recovering the weapon prototype, it's research from an IRL cancer institute being held for ransom, a GM prototype clean-energy engine being sold off on the black market, or whatever you like.

Very interesting the stuff that is coming up in this thread now. It's something I've mused over in the past as bizarre ideas for financially sustaining online environments.

[Spellcaster Hana]

I'm all for this idea since this is part of the "making noise" our community is doing.

[Knightslayer]

Another thought for something that could work as an in-game "store" type thing:

Movie theaters. (Yes, I just suggested somebody see if they could make a mock-up of one in the base-building contest thread; this is why.) As an example of how to do it without risking "I'll just record the movie with my game-recording software," it could interface with Netflix software. Players could either pay-per-movie from Netflix (or a proprietary) database, or use their Netflix (or proprietary) account to access the menu. Options to have your hero or party silhouetted, MST3k style, or have them not visible would be available, depending on how you want your movie-going experience to play out.

In-game movie theater screens could play actual movie trailers, or the like. There's no risk of those being recorded in a way that would be copyright-violating; the whole point of trailers is for people to see them.

I'd settle for trailers and Netflix ads/links in the in game theaters.
And even then I'm not sure how such stuff would accept the bandwidth and stuff (I suppose it could work if it went through a Netflix player instead of through the game itself).
Definitely an awesome plan on paper, not sure how feasible it is tech wise. (One for you tech savvy people? )
It'd be great for the RPers though! No more fastforwarding movie dates!

[Segev]

In this post, I start getting very pie-in-the-sky, but it's in line with developing tech to make CoH as much a "casual hang out" as a MMO (which should help bring in advertisers).

This is a bit ancillary, as well. It's taking it from "simulated world" to also being "augmented reality."

iPhones and similar mobile devices have fairly decent cameras capable of motion video capture and real-time image processing (to a limited extent). An app to enable your mobile device to use bluetooth to ping other mobile devices carrying the same app and say, "the guy carrying me is so-and-so," combined with some image-processing tech to identify where people's heads are, could enable holding a phone up and seeing the in-game name tags and titles over a real-world player's head. Obviously, this would be a voluntary thing, used for "cool, I wanted to meet you IRL" situations; it must be turn-offable so people don't feel over-exposed should they not want to be recognized out of game.


Take this a step further, however, and you could allow people to take photos of themselves and input that into the avatar generator (to get body/build type) and build their characters' costumes around it. Why is this relevant, you ask? Aside from vanity "my character really does look somewhat like me" things, the app listed above could be further designed to use bluetooth to take from the viewed-person's mobile device the avatar construct and use image-processing tech to superimpose the avatar over the person's image in the camera.

Suddenly, the hero-view app allows us to look at each other through our phones and see our in-game avatars, moving as if in the real world.


Alone, this doesn't help attract advertisers, but it's a cool and fun augmented reality toy for social networking and meeting each other IRL if we want to. However, we could also "hang" ads in real-world locations, either with QR codes that advertisers can put into their otherwise-purchased real-world ads that would trigger special images and/or video in mobile devices using this ap to look at them, or by having locations actually recorded and recognizable by the app and putting virtual ads in them.

Truly ambitiously - this isn't likely to be realistic any time soon - if a real-world store made its in-game retail space modeled after a real-world location and set up the network in that real-world location to talk to mobile devices running this ap, people could look through their phones to see heroes who were there only virtually. Doing the reverse might be a bit too "big brother" esq for most people's comfort, as cool as being able to see "real people" walking through the virtual store might be. (This would involve cameras around the real-world store that placed the real world people in the virtual store.)


Like I said, pie-in-the-sky stuff, but amusing to think about.

[QuantumHero]

Sorry to go missing on you all...kinda had the vigilante hat on yesterday.

While City of Heroes has never had any direct control over Cape radio or the other streaming stations why not place them within this as well, invite advertisers to steam and/or appear in game with a discount for the package deal?  Allow up to three featured sponsors per webcast.  There are rules about sponsorship vs advertising and I have to look up how the apply to web tations but sposorship should be fine at minimum.  We would obviously have to work out details with official reps from those internet stations or have them on the ad board for a reborn COH...but it should be viewed as an opportunity for all parties.

And wouldn't it be nice if those in game boom boxes could actually pick up those streams?  There are some potential concerns with that but something to think about

[Segev]

Another marketing ploy that honestly CO could probably use as well as CoH, but would go entertainingly hand-in-hand, perhaps, with the "in game retail space" idea:

There is very promising tech in the 3D printing arena. It isn't something that is going to be marketable to home users reasonably soon, but producing a unit intended for sale to toy stores and other retail outlets so they can print, say, figurines of a hero made in the avatar-builder that CoH uses could be interesting. Players could shop online in-game or just go to their friendly local store with their avatar saved in a special format on a thumb drive or something. Or they could log on at the store and grab their character for printing. The store either pays CoH rent for the device or pays a royalty for each printing, and keeps the rest.

If I remember correctly, you can make some pretty fantasy-esq and sci-fi-esq avatars (maybe even orcs, goblins, elves, and the like) with the CoH avatar-generator; there might be market here for custom gaming figurines, too.

[dwturducken]

OK, the ideas in this thread are getting some really good traction, but one thing that occurred to me that I have not seen addressed is the effect in real terms of clicking on the ad. Do we want to have an actual pop up, because I still maintain software on my computer to stop that sort of thing, including the dynamic ad banners in web pages.  I'm all for billboards and posters and rewarding our attention to them, but, if I'm in a fight with an AV or Elite Boss and accidentally click a poster, I'm gonna be extremely pissed if the game goes into the background and an ad webpage opens.

[Segev]

I confess to only sharing "my vision" here. This is how I would do it were I in charge - and that is...not likely. (I wouldn't mind being so, but realistically, unless I get hired as a consultant for such a thing - which is totally outside my actual field of expertise - it's only slightly more likely than me winning the lottery by buying just one ticket.)

But. I see it as being as close to "real life" ads as possible, but with gameplay and convenience elements thrown in. Good heavens, no, there would be no "send game to background; here's a web page" ads. Clicking on ads would open, at most, in-game objects (e.g. for picking which Inspiration you want as your reward), and largely, even THAT likely wouldn't be necessary, since such things are generally automated in the game so they do not interrupt the ability of the player to keep his character alive.

[QuantumHero]

I confess to only sharing "my vision" here. This is how I would do it were I in charge - and that is...not likely. (I wouldn't mind being so, but realistically, unless I get hired as a consultant for such a thing - which is totally outside my actual field of expertise - it's only slightly more likely than me winning the lottery by buying just one ticket.)

But. I see it as being as close to "real life" ads as possible, but with gameplay and convenience elements thrown in. Good heavens, no, there would be no "send game to background; here's a web page" ads. Clicking on ads would open, at most, in-game objects (e.g. for picking which Inspiration you want as your reward), and largely, even THAT likely wouldn't be necessary, since such things are generally automated in the game so they do not interrupt the ability of the player to keep his character alive.

Segev I um put your name in for the Plan Z side ad team actually   Because whether we end up on Plan A, Q, or Z if the community is involved...we NEED in game marketing.  I hope it wasn't presumpive of me...but its where you belong

As for the adds what if they went to a tab for viewing later (tip missions) or hit the side of your screen like tool tips?

[Segev]

If there's really a call for ads to have a "read this later for more info if interested" sort of thing, the most stylish in-game way to do it, I think, would be to include any ads you've clicked on that have that sort of thing as options in your Newspaper. When you open it up, you have the usual list of missions, and some ads you've selected for later viewing. You can open and read the whole ad the way you open and read the other "articles" that wind up providing missions.

Heck, for sponsored missions, those ads could HAVE missions associated with them. (Sponsored missions would have to be arranged carefully, as stated before, though if there's a Foundry-type mission-building system, "sponsoring" a mission could just be a way to get your self-made mission into the newspaper listings. Somebody has to find your ad in-game, click on it, then choose it from the list of Newspaper missions, but they don't have to hunt through the "normal" means of locating one.)

Putting them in other areas, like the tool-tips or the like, could also work; it would depend and could probably use some play-testing just to see how players like it best.


I don't mind helping out with "plan Z" in that capacity; I warn you that my expertise is in Computational Intelligence, and not marketing, but I'm happy to help. My whole personal goal here is involvement because I have...an idea...that would be greatly aided by an MMO as a development bed. Like all of you, I sincerely hope CoH is saved - preferably by IP being sold and Paragon Studios continuing to run it (whether independently or as a subsidiary of another company) - and to be able to work with them on it in the future. But if "plan Z" is how it works out, then I'll be quite happy to help with it as I can.

[Battle Ant]

I'm sorry, but if "Plan Z" is turning into City of Advertising, I'll just let City of Heroes die with dignity. Once you let in advertisers, you have lost control of the game. If it was limited to a .jpg pic of their product on a billboard, that would be one thing, but they will want to inject tracking code and other crap ware. Once that advertising money starts rolling in, they know they have you just like a drug dealer. If I am going to pay a subscription to play a game, I come there to play the game. I don't want to play City of Facebook.

[Segev]

I'm sorry, but if "Plan Z" is turning into City of Advertising, I'll just let City of Heroes die with dignity. Once you let in advertisers, you have lost control of the game. If it was limited to a .jpg pic of their product on a billboard, that would be one thing, but they will want to inject tracking code and other crap ware. Once that advertising money starts rolling in, they know they have you just like a drug dealer. If I am going to pay a subscription to play a game, I come there to play the game. I don't want to play City of Facebook.

Well, 1) you wouldn't be paying a subscription unless you wanted to. It's a free-to-play model.

2) They can WANT all they like, but ultimately the game creator does control it. Anything that drives players away by making it more annoying is going to ultimately diminish ad revenue, something that many web designers seem to be learning these days as ads become less intrusive. (They can still be problematic, but I have noticed that we get fewer popup-swarms and that the number of obnoxious talking banner ads has gone down, lately.)

3) The goal would be to integrate the ads so that they "fit in" as much as they do in the real world. They are pictures on billboards, storefronts that are real stores (or are, themselves, at least references to said stores as a subtle sort of ad), product placement, etc.

[DrakeGrimm]

Well, 1) you wouldn't be paying a subscription unless you wanted to. It's a free-to-play model.

2) They can WANT all they like, but ultimately the game creator does control it. Anything that drives players away by making it more annoying is going to ultimately diminish ad revenue, something that many web designers seem to be learning these days as ads become less intrusive. (They can still be problematic, but I have noticed that we get fewer popup-swarms and that the number of obnoxious talking banner ads has gone down, lately.)

3) The goal would be to integrate the ads so that they "fit in" as much as they do in the real world. They are pictures on billboards, storefronts that are real stores (or are, themselves, at least references to said stores as a subtle sort of ad), product placement, etc.

The goal is to create ad revenue as unobtrusively as possible, similar to watching a movie. Yes, that's right, that awesome action movie you just watched contains massive amounts of advertising! Don't believe me?

Action Hero Man drives a Ford! That's an ad. Ford paid the studio money to make sure Action Hero Man drives a Ford car. Does this disrupt your ability to enjoy the movie? Not a bit! But somewhere in the back of your mind, your subconscious is now going "Man, Action Hero Man is so cool, I wish I had a car like his."

AHM drinks Coca-Cola. This is another ad. Coca-Cola paid the studio money to have AHM promote their beverage by drinking it on screen. Is this intrusive? No. AHM has to drink something during that heart-warming dinner scene with his estranged daughter, and the studio might as well get paid for it.

Now we start getting more subtle. Next time you re-watch the movie, check out the back ground of scenes. AHM owns a Sony television, with a Playstation 3.(Ad!) His coffee maker is a Mr Coffee.(Ad!) His washing machine is a GE.(Ad!)

"Product placement" is still advertising, and if done correctly, is almost "invisible" while still putting all of those brands into your subconscious. Oh, and one more example. Remember that awesome car chase scene with AHM and the bad guy? Check out the billboards in the background. More advertising!

[Battle Ant]

Well, 1) you wouldn't be paying a subscription unless you wanted to. It's a free-to-play model.

2) They can WANT all they like, but ultimately the game creator does control it. Anything that drives players away by making it more annoying is going to ultimately diminish ad revenue, something that many web designers seem to be learning these days as ads become less intrusive. (They can still be problematic, but I have noticed that we get fewer popup-swarms and that the number of obnoxious talking banner ads has gone down, lately.)

3) The goal would be to integrate the ads so that they "fit in" as much as they do in the real world. They are pictures on billboards, storefronts that are real stores (or are, themselves, at least references to said stores as a subtle sort of ad), product placement, etc.

1. So subscribers would see no ads, stores fronts, etc. You can guarantee that?

2. So traffic trackers and the like are OK to put on people's computers as long as they do not see them?

3. I have no problem with a picture on a billboard or a soda can with "Pepsi" on it as long as there is no underlying code attached to it. I do dislike the "storefront " idea. Like I said before, this is not City of Facebook. I came here to play a game with friends, not buy snow tires or feminine hygiene products. The only store we need was like the Paragon Store.

[Segev]

1. So subscribers would see no ads, stores fronts, etc. You can guarantee that?

I will not guarantee that. It may be that there is a "turn off ads" option, but turning them off would turn off those soda cans and billboards. See DrakeGrimm's post on this.

2. So traffic trackers and the like are OK to put on people's computers as long as they do not see them?

Define "traffic tracker" in this case. It's never okay to load spyware on people's computers without their knowledge AND consent. Nor would it be permitted, if I were the one in charge (if I'm not, I can't speak for those who are, and it would be an interesting turn of events for me to be so; I can, however, speak to my "vision" of it as I've been brainstorming in this thread).

3. I have no problem with a picture on a billboard or a soda can with "Pepsi" on it as long as there is no underlying code attached to it. I do dislike the "storefront " idea. Like I said before, this is not City of Facebook. I came here to play a game with friends, not buy snow tires or feminine hygiene products. The only store we need was like the Paragon Store.

So don't. Don't go into the store areas. Ignore the product placement as you do in an action movie. Just go in and kick butt and save the day as per normal. It's not like you're going to be forced to watch commercials before you can go play a mission or something.

"City of Facebook" is something I can't comment on; I don't use Facebook enough to know what you think you're referring to.

[Battle Ant]

Define "traffic tracker" in this case. It's never okay to load spyware on people's computers without their knowledge AND consent. Nor would it be permitted, if I were the one in charge (if I'm not, I can't speak for those who are, and it would be an interesting turn of events for me to be so; I can, however, speak to my "vision" of it as I've been brainstorming in this thread).
So don't. Don't go into the store areas. Ignore the product placement as you do in an action movie. Just go in and kick butt and save the day as per normal. It's not like you're going to be forced to watch commercials before you can go play a mission or something.

"City of Facebook" is something I can't comment on; I don't use Facebook enough to know what you think you're referring to.

 Sorry for using the incorrect name. "An ad tracker is defined as a tool which tracks ad campaigns to provide return on investment information  (http://www.adtrackerreviews.com/ad-tracker.html)" These are little programs that send data off your hard drive back to the company doing the advertising. The problem is that no one can see what information is being sent because they run in the background unseen. These trackers are a MAJOR invasion of privacy. Sure the advertiser can say that they are only collecting game statistics and the like, but are they really? Plus, gamemakers force customers into having to use them by you accepting the EULA. If I am paying a subscription, why do the advertisers feel I need to pay them with more information about myself?

 I use the term "City of Facebook" because that is what Facebook does.. It gathers all the information about a person that it can just to sell products. Every app or game you play on it has the distinct purpose to sell you something. I don't want "Plan Z" to be like that. I do not want to give up my privacy just to be able to play the game. Some of the posts in this thread come across like people saying "I'll give up my rights to privacy for a free game"

As I said before, I have no problem with a picture or and object bearing a product's name as long as the game is not bombarded with them. Information gathering is a whole other monster. Would you tolerate salespeople knocking on your door at different times of the day, everyday and writing down everything they can about you, your family, your household etc ? Then why tolerate it when they do it to your computer which probably holds even more of your sensitive information?

[Segev]

Sounds like something a) we've not mentioned as options in this thread and b) that a good anti-malware program should be able to control. I know Avast! blocks a lot of things until I give them permission; a similar program might find a market in people who want these "invisible info gatherers" made visible and blockable.

[Knightslayer]

The goal is to create ad revenue as unobtrusively as possible, similar to watching a movie. Yes, that's right, that awesome action movie you just watched contains massive amounts of advertising! Don't believe me?

Action Hero Man drives a Ford! That's an ad. Ford paid the studio money to make sure Action Hero Man drives a Ford car. Does this disrupt your ability to enjoy the movie? Not a bit! But somewhere in the back of your mind, your subconscious is now going "Man, Action Hero Man is so cool, I wish I had a car like his."

AHM drinks Coca-Cola. This is another ad. Coca-Cola paid the studio money to have AHM promote their beverage by drinking it on screen. Is this intrusive? No. AHM has to drink something during that heart-warming dinner scene with his estranged daughter, and the studio might as well get paid for it.

Now we start getting more subtle. Next time you re-watch the movie, check out the back ground of scenes. AHM owns a Sony television, with a Playstation 3.(Ad!) His coffee maker is a Mr Coffee.(Ad!) His washing machine is a GE.(Ad!)

"Product placement" is still advertising, and if done correctly, is almost "invisible" while still putting all of those brands into your subconscious. Oh, and one more example. Remember that awesome car chase scene with AHM and the bad guy? Check out the billboards in the background. More advertising!

And pretty much every computer is from Dell. (just pay attention to the logos on them, pretty sure NCIS and CSI's labcomputers are all Dell, the ones in Bones too probably, not to mention all the cop and spy series.)
And I'm pretty sure fashionistas will be able to pick out several well known clothing brands too.

[QuantumHero]

Spyware deliberately placed on a computer is something I will *never* condone.

All add counters should be server side only.

And all advertising should be immersion building or neutral...anything that takes away from the experiance is just not acceptable.

We are also never required to accept a specific advertiser or campaign.

Also please remember that product placement and properly managed advertising revenue will allow the free to play model to continue.

Will it really bother you to find a starbucks coffee cup or a can of pepsi sitting on an office desk in your mission...or does that actually tell you more about the person who you are tryin to rescue?  How about cases of hammermill paper?  An HP printer?  How about a brand of car drving by?  A jimmy John's bicyle rider?  A billboard for tigerdirect?

The idea is that these things exist all around you, you can just let it exist as a subtle part of theworld OR there are insentives to OPTIONALLY take part in missions where a brand is featured in a way that does NOT detract from our world.  I.e. protect the Motorola office building.  Save the pizza boy.  Get back the Colonel's secret recipe. (Kfc).  You are not required to take these missions but you will get real life and/or in game rewards for doing so.

As for storefronts of whatever kind, you have the option to walk right by, if contacts which are occasionally inside a building with a real world logo on it bother you that much...don't take thatparticular mission even if it has nothing to do with the brand.