Author Topic: NCSoft Stockwatch  (Read 714653 times)

TimtheEnchanter

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #560 on: December 05, 2012, 06:51:42 PM »
Something went down with cmgangrel in this thread:

http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,6967.0.html

Beyond that, I couldn't say.

Another departure without a resignation/grievance post?

*sigh*

How can the problem be corrected, if it isn't pointed out?

Colette

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #561 on: December 05, 2012, 06:53:31 PM »
"Yes, there was drama."

I know nothing about this. I've crossed paths with the arbiters here for... call 'em comments made in the heat of the moment. I've found them fair and reasonable. They do a necessary job and deserve our support. Let's hope the Gangrel will cool off and come back soon.

"Can you tell my favorite redside arc was Vernon Von Grun?"

When CoH comes back up, join me in AE, and I'll show you what Von Grun's been up to since. Egad, how I love mad science!

Perfidus

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #562 on: December 05, 2012, 06:55:21 PM »
The way I see it, whatever happened with Gangrel, in the end, isn't even our business anymore. It's between the moderators and him, what with all the posts being gone. We can't bring this up in every thread.

In other news, looks like NC's stock isn't recovering from that nosedive last night. I wish we could have a hidden camera in their offices to see what's being discussed right now.

Kaiser Tarantula

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #563 on: December 05, 2012, 06:58:17 PM »
In other news, looks like NC's stock isn't recovering from that nosedive last night. I wish we could have a hidden camera in their offices to see what's being discussed right now.
I would settle for a hidden speaker in Taek Jim Kim's office, some voice modulation software, and a Korean translator.

Fulcrum

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #564 on: December 05, 2012, 07:01:29 PM »
I would settle for a hidden speaker in Taek Jim Kim's office, some voice modulation software, and a Korean translator.

I would settle for a hidden dead fish in Taek Jim Kim's office.

Nafaustu

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #565 on: December 05, 2012, 07:04:46 PM »
I realize this may be slightly counter to what we're trying to accomplish, but we are dealing with American jobs here.

Me?   I'm a nobody, i've got no connections in the industry.  My marketing degree is rusty and I haven't had to write a resume in at least two years.

That being said, is there anything we can do to help all these people who are getting re-aligned out of their jobs?   I can't think of anything directly, but all of us are much more clever and capable and clever then just me.

johnrobey

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #566 on: December 05, 2012, 07:07:36 PM »
I would settle for a hidden dead fish in Taek Jim Kim's office.

ROFL!!!!!! ;D
"We must be the change we wish to see in the world." -- Mahatma Gandhi         "In every generation there has to be some fool who will speak the truth as he sees it." -- Boris Pasternak
"Where They Have Burned Books They Will End In Burning Human Beings" -- Heinrich Heine

Perfidus

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #567 on: December 05, 2012, 07:09:11 PM »
Consider this, Nafaustu. Last I heard, about 60/80 of Paragon Studios were reemployed. If these people that same level of talent and resolve, I think they'll be just fine. I hope it's the case, the idea of anyone being unemployed in the holiday season, especially if they have a family, just breaks my heart.

Minotaur

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #568 on: December 05, 2012, 07:13:14 PM »
Consider this, Nafaustu. Last I heard, about 60/80 of Paragon Studios were reemployed. If these people that same level of talent and resolve, I think they'll be just fine. I hope it's the case, the idea of anyone being unemployed in the holiday season, especially if they have a family, just breaks my heart.

I don't think it was the Paragon people he meant, the redundancies at NCSoft were something more recent and different, Seattle ?

Perfidus

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #569 on: December 05, 2012, 07:14:13 PM »
No, yeah. He was talking about the Seattle guys, not Paragon. What I was doing was using Paragon as a reference for how quick some of these ladies and gentlemen can find work again. Sorry for that mix up.

Nafaustu

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #570 on: December 05, 2012, 07:32:00 PM »
No, yeah. He was talking about the Seattle guys, not Paragon. What I was doing was using Paragon as a reference for how quick some of these ladies and gentlemen can find work again. Sorry for that mix up.

I got you.   I just feel so...helpless.   And I hate advancement through the misfortune of others.   So as pleased as I am the stock is reflecting poor corporate decision-making, I feel bad for all the little people that are also getting hurt by it.

Perfidus

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #571 on: December 05, 2012, 07:37:00 PM »
I admit, I feel torn as well. When I first heard the news, I snickered and actually said "Good" aloud, because of what it represents. It didn't take long for me to realize that this is just NCSoft doing what they do best. Scapegoating foreigners to make up for their own losses and misfortune. And that these are people, hard working people no doubt, now suddenly jobless in the end of the year.

I really do wish NCSoft would just pack their things and get out of the western market all together. (But not before selling their IPs, hopefully.)

Colette

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #572 on: December 05, 2012, 08:04:30 PM »
I appreciate your generous spirit, Perfidus. It speaks very well of you. You too, Nafaustu.

NCSoft could have avoided all this by simply saying, "look, we're moving out of the West. Business stuff. We're putting the City up for sale. Y'all have been great and we hope someone else picks the game up." There would have been no hard feelings at all. But nooooo! No, they gotta try an' destroy it.

So as for the rank and file... sleep with dogs, you will get fleas. The good folks at Paragon have already found that out to their discomfort.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2012, 12:04:48 AM by Colette »

Kaiser Tarantula

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #573 on: December 05, 2012, 08:05:45 PM »
I'm going to paraphrase something I said earlier.

It's NCsoft's fault that their employees are losing jobs, not us.  It was their poor decisions that led to their stock falling.  It was their poor decisions that led to CoH's closing.  It was their poor decisions that led to Paragon Studios being gutted.  Maybe we've hastened things along some, maybe we enjoy the schadenfreude of watching NCsoft suffer.  But we are not to blame for the consequences of their actions.

Had we simply BOHICA* when the closure was announced, Paragon Studios would've still been closed.  NCsoft would still be pulling out of the United States.  It would just be slower and more protracted, with all the underhanded BS involved quietly swept under a rug instead of being pointed out loudly by us.  Workers would still be laid off left and right - NCsoft just would be dealing with a lot less negative press about it.

I'll say it again: actual events would not change.  The only thing we've done so far is point out what is happening.  All of the harm that has been done is NCsoft's doing, and theirs alone - we've just made sure that NC can't count on people ignoring the problem.

It's okay to feel sympathy for laid-off NCsoft employees, especially refugees of Paragon Studios.  I wouldn't want to see anyone lose their job.  But the fact of the matter is, jobs are going to be lost as NCsoft flounders, and they're going to cut American jobs first because those jobs are the least valuable to NCsoft, from the standpoint of NC's leadership.  Until NC's leadership changes their attitude towards Americans, American-made MMOs, and American-run development houses, that's not going to change, and there's nothing really we can do except pressure them to change.

Or pressure them into the ground, whichever comes first.  Given their obstinacy, and their tanking stock price, the latter seems more realistic.

My advice to any non-Korean NCsoft employee - your job security is in very real peril.  If you haven't been laid off yet, it's a matter of months at most.  Start jobhunting now, and bail the minute you get something halfway decent, or as soon as you legally can if you're under contract.  We don't want to see you suffer due to the stupidity of NCsoft.

*Bend Over, Here It Comes Again
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 08:15:38 PM by Kaiser Tarantula »

Perfidus

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #574 on: December 05, 2012, 08:10:11 PM »
Thank you, Colette.

I don't disagree with you, Kaiser. It's acceptable to hate NCSoft and feel glad about their misfortune, but still feel empathy for those whose lives are being negatively affected in the process. That's where I'm at right now, and I agree with the poster (maybe you?) who said those remaining in western NCSoft offices ought to look hard at themselves and what's going on around them. They need an exit strategy.

I'll never understand why Synapse would sign up again to stay with an NCSoft subsidiary. But then, I don't have a family. I have no one to care for but me. I understand he has bills to pay, a family to feed, and a life to live. But I can't be expected to know what it's like.

Colette

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #575 on: December 05, 2012, 08:19:50 PM »
"...actual events would not change.  The only thing we've done so far is point out what is happening...."

Little disingenuous, Kaiser, forgive me.

Look over the memes section. We're actively engaging in a campaign to make NCSoft look bad. I personally made an image comparing NC's management to vampires, not to mention that "NCSoftcore" line. We're cheering their stock plummet. Granted, we were provoked, but we need to own up to that, and accept the moral responsibility for it.

For one thing, accepting moral responsibility and reflecting on our actions is a large share of what separates us from them, and keeps us "blueside." I applaud Perfidus' reflection, while urging us all to accept the costs and continue.

(Aside: I just realized one of the things I love most about the superhero genre: staying "blueside" is part of one's identity and character, and there are clear and unmuddied limits. You're obligated to choose your side every single day. What a healthy and useful ethical lesson to teach people!)
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 08:31:23 PM by Colette »

Enson Red Shirt

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #576 on: December 05, 2012, 08:39:36 PM »
don't just watch the stock trade it :) when it nose dives buy a bunch when it start to recover sell to the bid that panicks people and they sell too also if you own many shares and dump alot fast you trigger automated HFT systems and can cause a stock havock i have been trading theis stock since the closure anouncement and i just sold 18,000,000 shares in another company to free up more capital you folks keep up the good no make that great work in telling the world about ncsofts wrong unethical doings and i'll keep ruining their stock individuals and non koreans make up about 70%
of their shareholder base i may be a Red shirt here but i am Doctor Evil everywhere else www.evilincorporated.us

chasearcanum

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #577 on: December 05, 2012, 08:44:23 PM »
Making NCSoft look bad when they make boneheaded decisions isn't necessarily "bad."

1) Raising a mirror to the ugly isn't wrong. 
2) It serves as a lesson for others.  If the public spectacle of a floundering NCSoft public opinion gives other companies pause and causes them to more carefully weigh their options, then we may prevent this spectacle in the future.
3) Many of us had made clear that we would laud their merits should they come to a community-minded resolution.  With a little maneuvering and some support from us, they can easily ride the wave of celebration if the game were rescued.


Kaiser Tarantula

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #578 on: December 05, 2012, 08:50:06 PM »
Little disingenuous, Kaiser, forgive me.

Look over the memes section. We're actively engaging in a campaign to make NCSoft look bad. I personally made an image comparing NC's management to vampires, not to mention that "NCSoftcore" line. We're cheering their stock plummet. Granted, we were provoked, but we need to own up to that, and accept the moral responsibility for it.

For one thing, accepting moral responsibility and moral reflection is a large share of what separates us from them. I applaud Perfidus' reflection, while urging us all to accept the costs and continue.
I can understand the point you're trying to make.  Yes, we are deliberately engaged in the creation of anti-NCsoft memes and cheering as NCsoft tanks.  I mentioned the latter outright.

But I gotta ask - would any of those memes or images even exist, had NCsoft not given them reason to? Meme images get generated for virtually everything - what we're doing is no more evil than, say, a political cartoon in your morning newspaper.  Furthermore, how much damage have they actually done?  Has our negative press campaign been directly attributable to the loss of someone's job yet?

This is why I say actual events would not change.  Eliminate the folks (including myself) watching NCsoft's stock like a vulture.  Eliminate the meme campaign.  Eliminate all the negative press thus far that we've produced.  There still exists a ton of really stupid business decisions that NCsoft has made, and that other outlets have reported on, that would lead to their stock price tanking.  NCsoft's apparent goal is to pull back from western markets - everyone who has been fired would probably still have been fired.

I will admit, there is hate here for NCsoft - but when asked, most people will agree that the hate doesn't extend to NCsoft's ground level employees.  Only its leadership (or more correctly, their high-ranking employees demonstrating a startling lack thereof).  Yes, NCsoft tanking as a company will harm the people employed by that company, but that's something we can't help.  Maybe we should launch a campaign offering to help laid-off NC employees find new jobs in their area?

I say that if NCsoft doesn't want bad press, they should stop giving people reasons to make bad press.  Common wisdom says that you don't kick a hornet's nest unless you're comfortable with the idea of being swarmed afterward.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 09:07:11 PM by Kaiser Tarantula »

SARobb

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #579 on: December 05, 2012, 09:00:22 PM »
Common wisdom says that you don't kick a hornet's nest unless you're comfortable with the idea of being swarmed afterward.

Or if you have a 1988 Chevrolet Luv truck to dive into the second one of those little buggers shows it's face... just sayin'  ;D
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