Author Topic: NCSoft Stockwatch  (Read 719298 times)

Little Green Frog

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #800 on: December 11, 2012, 09:03:12 PM »
Frog,  I don't think any of us are looking to totally "shut down" ncsoft, but:

I was replying specifically to Golden Girl's vague comments that hinted at nuclear-like behavior. This kind of mindset concerns me because while currently it fuels the efforts to save City, in the end it will turn the whole IP into hot potato no sane company would be willing to handle. But I know what's what and I do agree more or less with all the points you make.

3) To influence this change, though, we have carrots and sticks... and at this stage we're left with more sticks. NCSoft  apparently thinks that people don't care about these things, they won't do anything.  They'll "weather the storm," stick to their old ways, and continue to be a risk to players of their still-existing titles.  If NCSoft's sales falters, they may see that CUSTOMERS DO CARE about this, and realize that a big public reversal in policy may be to their strategic advantage.  If their investors become uncertain, then they'll realize that their investors may care and likewise seek to make changes.  The bigger and broader our impact the more likely they'll have to reconsider their processes. 

With a small exception to this one. But before I begin, let me put things into perspective by reminding you that I started the thread where I pondered possible legal action against NCsoft. Not my proudest moment, but I am hurt too and thus am just as prone to have my judgement clouded as the next person on these boards.

But that being said, going all nuclear is not our best option not because it is not effective, but because it may actually be just a little bit too much. Running an MMO is a business and companies that want to stay on the market need to have a very pragmatical outlook. Currently I would imagine that CoH may be quite a prize being an already developed game with such a dedicated following. That sounds like a great business opportunity: just acquire the code base and the IP rights and there, instant profit. But imagine that the bloodlust takes a permanent hold and CoH story will actually spill to the wider audience with all the negativity and hate. What would a sane business person do after seeing all the bagagge they would inherit with the game? They would stop in their tracks and think what will happen if circumstances change and they will be unwilling or unable to keep the game alive themselves. They will quickly realize they will find themselves on the other end of the bat and become the new "NCstupid". That is very bad for business. So what are they going to do? They will back away. NCsoft will be hurt, but we will be left with nothing.

The important thing is to realize that while we all love CoH, it is not a goose that is laying golden eggs. No company will be willing to do everything just to get a hold of the IP. And because of that we need to be smart about what we do with our efforts. Currently some of us are, but some of us are not. That's a problem.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 09:23:11 PM by Little Green Frog »

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #801 on: December 11, 2012, 09:09:12 PM »
Dividing amongst ourselves, and hurting other gamers/games, will not help us "against" NCSoft, or for City of Heroes.

It's easy to be against something.

It's a lot harder to be FOR something.

In the same vein as not labeling eachothers as sock puppets, sell outs, sparkling pegacorns, etc, let's also try not to reach out for something to attack. Yes, NCSoft wronged us. Yes, I'd be happy for them to crash too. But we arent watching their stock prices because we all got together to watch the company die. "This is a Save Paragon City!" board, not a "Destroy NCSoft!" board, and its important to remember that. Yes, NCSoft having financial leverage against them helps us. Yes, them being in a less than advantageous position helps us.

But I think the more we start encouraging, accepting, going down the route of collateral damage, the less we look like something worth supporting - and this isn't really just about us.

CoH being shut down like it was represents a blow against gamers and -consumers- globally. It shows possible international bias causing harm to consumers who were in good faith supporting a product, and a company, only for everything to go away because someone wanted it to - not because it was harming shareholders or a company at large.

CoH being shut down when older games are still going, some not even in maintenance mode, is a blow against old-but-proffitable. Tripple A titles are not all that the gaming industry wants, or needs right now. They look shiny and pretty, but the smaller scene, indy games, lower budget titles, MMORPGs still making money but-not-WoW-levels, these all still have value.

This is a GAMER cause. This is a GAMER issue.

If someone came in here and said they were an Aion subscriber, as much as that game annoys me for its possible connections to the closing of CoH... if they were throwing their load in with us, I would happily accept them.

Because they could get hurt like us.

Because we were one internet, one gaming community, and one people who enjoy having fun by pressing buttons and having a character do stuff on screen.

Remembering this can only make us stronger :)
Well said.
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Kistulot

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #802 on: December 11, 2012, 09:14:22 PM »
Well said.

Thank you :)

I know I'm saying something a lot of people have already said, but sometimes saying it just so can help :)
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Megajoule

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #803 on: December 11, 2012, 09:21:41 PM »
I, for one, am seeing a lot of anger here.  Anger which is certainly understandable, given the circumstances... but anger is much like fire.  If not carefully tended and watched, fire can burn out of control, indiscriminately, including those who started it.

srmalloy

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #804 on: December 11, 2012, 09:43:45 PM »
IMHO Aion is probably next in line to feel the executioner's axe and not the GW games so it'd be in their self-interest to throw in with #SaveCoH before there needs to be a #SaveAion.

At least Aion in the Western market; I don't have the link available here at work, but while researching the history of Korean MMOs I ran across a statement that NCSoft had paid for computer upgrades at many cyber cafes in Korea so that they would have the specs to be able to run Aion, otherwise the game would have fallen flatter there than "City of Hero" did, from sheer lack of ability to play it.

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #805 on: December 11, 2012, 10:47:29 PM »
At least Aion in the Western market; I don't have the link available here at work, but while researching the history of Korean MMOs I ran across a statement that NCSoft had paid for computer upgrades at many cyber cafes in Korea so that they would have the specs to be able to run Aion, otherwise the game would have fallen flatter there than "City of Hero" did, from sheer lack of ability to play it.
Which is why the "hey lets build an MMO on FPS engine XYZ, it'll look awesome" is normally a bad idea.  Back on the old forums someone was asking for a new CoH done on the CryEngine 3 engine.  There's a good reason it's called "Cry"Engine other than the name of the company.
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Aggelakis

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #806 on: December 11, 2012, 11:15:30 PM »
Mod Hat!

Howdy guys. Some folks here are getting a little heated so I would like everyone to stop posting about anything other than watching stocks for a while. Don't talk about bashing NCsoft or another one of their games (past, present, or future), don't talk about supporting NCsoft or another one of their games (past, present, or future), don't talk about race or culture or anything else. This is a stockwatch thread, so let's have a stockwatch thread for a little while. Once we all calm down a bit, maybe the thread can tangent again.
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Colette

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #807 on: December 12, 2012, 12:14:39 AM »
http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/chart?symbol=036570.KS

Stabilized at 156. I still don't like that.

NecrotechMaster

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #808 on: December 12, 2012, 12:31:29 AM »
as long as its not going up then im fine with that, of course drops will give them more prompts to sell

ukaserex

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #809 on: December 12, 2012, 01:39:50 AM »
I'm by no means an expert - but I am very interested in the fluctuation of the stock price. There are so very many variables that come into play, it's enough to drive a sane man mad! As for this crazy blaster, I can't get much worse, so I can look and ponder all I like. One factor that seems to be a telling one is the value of the US dollar. I wish I had powerpoint on my computer; I'd make an overlay of the last years comparison of the Won compared to the US Dollar and NCSoft's stock price. I think, and of course, I could very well be wrong, that NCSoft was not keen to pursue our US dollars because they're just weak. I know my dollar doesn't buy what it used to. As I mentioned before, there's a zillion variables and nobody can nail all the variables down. (at least I don't think so) But, it is food for thought.
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NecrotechMaster

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #810 on: December 12, 2012, 01:46:32 AM »
what you bring up is a possible point, i doubt its the only point, but it could be a possible reason why ncsoft is trying to pull out of the western market (although it would only account for the US, not the EU)

ukaserex

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #811 on: December 12, 2012, 01:49:38 AM »
Heh, well, given (I am Greek, so I can say this!) how the Euro is doing, I'm not sure I would want my business there either!
Those who have no idea what they are doing genuinely have no idea that they don't know what they're doing. - John Cleese

Victoria Victrix

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #812 on: December 12, 2012, 02:35:39 AM »
*cough*
Rumor hath it that Carbine is only getting "axe delayed" notifications in 2 month increments now.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 12:17:28 AM by Victoria Victrix »
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TonyV

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #813 on: December 12, 2012, 02:39:06 AM »
It sure would be nice if some people could Save COH without continually bashing GW2.

Well, a few things are going on here that make the issue complex.

I have no ill will towards Arena.Net, Carbine, or other studios that NCsoft acquired.  As far as I'm concerned, they're a lot of like Paragon Studios.  They have developers, artists, writers, managers, marketers, etc. that all work hard, and as far as I know, they have their dedicated communities just like we have ours.

To be honest, I fear for Arena.Net.  If what I think is happening is actually happening--NCsoft looking to shed all third-party studios and do all development basically run out of Seoul--then anyone that works there (or Carbine) should either 1) be in imminent fear for their job, or 2) be prepared for a massive change in (micro)management that will not bode well for their happiness and artistic integrity.

Which brings me to my first important point: If we are successful, there's a pretty good chance that we might actually be helping Arena.Net.  How's that?  Because if we are able to get NCsoft to free up the IP to City of Heroes, it is a template for how companies like NCsoft should ideally operate: When they're done with a game and want to move on to something else, instead of just kicking communities to the side, they can open up the possibility for other companies to acquire it.  I have no idea who runs Arena.Net, but whoever it is, wouldn't it be nice if when they get to the point where we are, instead of having to go through all of this heartache and strife and layoffs and such, their management can negotiate with NCsoft and, once NCsoft sees that it won't destroy their company, acquire the rights to Guild Wars so that that community can continue on?  Wouldn't it have been nice if Richard Garriott had been able to get the rights to Tabula Rasa so that the Paragon Studios management team and investors could have had a much easier time in negotiations to keep City of Heroes from shutting down?

There is also the issue that people are angry at NCsoft, and that anger is naturally going to seep out into all aspects of the company.  The sad fact is that if I go buy Guild Wars 2, that's going to put money into NCsoft's pocket, and I don't want that to happen.  Too many people in my humble opinion are seeing this as some sort of deliberate lash-out against Arena.Net, but it's not--not any more than buying a nice steak dinner (or whatever food you happen to like) at your favorite restaurant is deliberately spiting poor people because you could have eaten rice and beans instead and given the difference in cost to a feed the homeless.

There is also the matter of trying to do a greater good.  NCsoft shut down Paragon Studios and City of Heroes with virtually no warning and for no reason that's discernible to most people.  If we pitch such a fit that it hurts NCsoft--really hurts them financially and PR-wise--then isn't it plausible that other movers and shakers in the industry, many of them larger than NCsoft, will take notice?  If Sony, Blizzard, Perfect World, CCP or whoever sees NCsoft take a major hit because of this, how eager will they be to simply shut down a game like NCsoft did?  Not very, I'm wagering.  Someone had mentioned how mean we're being to Beastyle, who still (as far as I know) works at NCsoft in Seattle.  Look, I like the guy.  But as long as we're talking about hypothetical damage to his career, why aren't we taking into account the hypothetical damage to, say, Sean McCann's career if we don't do all we can to send the industry a message?  Or to Black Pebble?  Or to Zwillinger?  Or anyone else who is at another company now?

Also, one thing that you have to consider is that a lot of people--myself included--are really sore because they are convinced that money that was earned on City of Heroes was funneled into at least the development of Blade and Soul, and quite possibly Guild Wars 2 as well.  I know that some people dispute this, but I have my reasons (more than just "I feel this way...") for believing that in spite of their reasons, it's true.  Now don't get me wrong, I don't begrudge Guild Wars 2 players their game, and really, I don't even care very much one way or the other about Blade and Soul.  But to turn around and shut down our game and our studio after we played a role in helping to build NCsoft is extremely betraying, and I certainly understand why some people might have ill will towards those game even not necessarily through any fault of their own.

My point is, you're going to have to learn to accept that most people here are going to be anti-NCsoft and, by extension, some (not all) are going to take some of that anger out on other NCsoft titles.  You also need to recognize the difference between bashing NCsoft and bashing Guild Wars 2.  The two are not the same, any more than if I said, "NCsoft was incompetent" (which they were) by extension means, "Paragon Studios was incompetent" (which is DEFINITELY not true).

You don't have to like it, you don't have to agree with it, you're not going to get banned or anything for being the oddball out, and a small minority of people might even agree with you.  And there are plenty of topics and discussions that have little or nothing to do with NCsoft if you don't want to get into it.  But I'm going to warn you up front that if you post messages that are pro-Guild Wars or pro-NCsoft or pro-Blade and Soul, there's a really good chance that you're going to get a moderate to strong negative response.  You can go there if you want, but I suggest that you have a thick skin and stay far away from anything that could be considered trollish.

JWBullfrog

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #814 on: December 12, 2012, 02:39:46 AM »
*cough*

I have certain inside information that Carbine is only getting "axe delayed" notifications in 2 month increments now.

In other words, the axe is being held over their heads in a threatening manner, followed by "well you get another two months" when the two month deadline runs out.

I feel very sorry for them. Carbine doesn't deserve this.
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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #815 on: December 12, 2012, 02:55:42 AM »
Nor does ArenaNet and I truly, deeply and sincerely hope they can get shut of NCSoft before NCSoft threatens them with "monetize EVERYTHING" or we shut you down too."
I will go down with this ship.  I won't put my hands up in surrender.  There will be no white flag above my door.  I'm in love, and always will be.  Dido

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #816 on: December 12, 2012, 04:01:55 AM »
GG, I know we're all working for the same goal here - saving CoH - but as with any battle, while there are often several ways to win, there are countless ways to lose.

We cannot afford to lose the moral high ground. We can't afford to treat collateral damage frivolously and I would very much appreciate if you and everyone else tried to shoot around those who are uninvolved, but in the way, rather than through them.

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #817 on: December 12, 2012, 04:04:17 AM »
Anyway, back on topic, looks like someone spent their "buy our stock back up" budget again.

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #818 on: December 12, 2012, 04:55:45 AM »
*cough*

I have certain inside information that Carbine is only getting "axe delayed" notifications in 2 month increments now.

In other words, the axe is being held over their heads in a threatening manner, followed by "well you get another two months" when the two month deadline runs out.

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V-Mink

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #819 on: December 12, 2012, 06:39:36 AM »
*cough*

I have certain inside information that Carbine is only getting "axe delayed" notifications in 2 month increments now.

In other words, the axe is being held over their heads in a threatening manner, followed by "well you get another two months" when the two month deadline runs out.
Is there the possibility that, should NCsoftcore decide to "recoup" its "losses" and drop said axe on Carbine, that they will spin it as the fault of the once-and-future COHmmunity?  Or would that be too blatantly Sirrocco-level chutzpah?