Author Topic: Sad yet hopeful news  (Read 2565 times)

Blackgrue

  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 65
Sad yet hopeful news
« on: September 27, 2012, 11:40:30 PM »
I spoke with someone in touch with people at Cryptic, he made a suggestion to me that after Champions Online gets a few more updates they are going to include the Paragon City history within Champions' backstory. Particularly after it gets the Foundry feature that Star Trek Online enjoys.

Sad, but possibly hopeful that at least the IP won't die.
Virtue native

Main characters:
Diz the Goblin
Projekt Redstorm

Atlantea

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 869
Re: Sad yet hopeful news
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2012, 11:50:45 PM »
I spoke with someone in touch with people at Cryptic, he made a suggestion to me that after Champions Online gets a few more updates they are going to include the Paragon City history within Champions' backstory. Particularly after it gets the Foundry feature that Star Trek Online enjoys.

Sad, but possibly hopeful that at least the IP won't die.

Someone "in touch with"

"a suggestion"

Okay. This is friend of a friend situation. It's pure speculative theory. And I can already tell at least part of it is BUNK.

There is not even the slightest HINT that Cryptic is negotiating for the IP at this time.

Also - how would you "integrate" two completely separate intellectual properties in official fashion into the same game like that?

Sorry. I'm not buying it.

What I CAN buy is the idea that when the Foundry FINALLY is put into Champions that WE - the percentage of COH refugees who choose to make Champions our home (some permanently, some as simply a place to hang our hats pending a ressurection of COH) can and most probably will make non-canon missions referencing Paragon City characters and events.

I think you're getting your wires crossed with your contact. I think he's thinking and theorizing about US making Paragon Missions in the Foundry - not that Cryptic would make Paragon an official part of Champions.

That's my theory anyway.

Would it be cool if it were possible? That's debatable. Some people would love that option - others wouldn't. I'm kind of in the middle ground - even assuming it's possible (and that's a BIG if) it could be done well, or it could be done horribly.

If it were someone like Melissa Bianco writing it though... That would be a definite plus right there.

But still - to re-iterate:  I don't buy this rumor on the face of it. It doesn't pass my "bullshit detector" test. Sorry.
"I've never believed in the End Times. We are mankind. Our footprints are on the moon. When the last trumpet sounds and the Beast rises from the pit — we will KILL it."
— Gen. Stacker Pentecost

Osborn

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 188
Re: Sad yet hopeful news
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2012, 12:01:26 AM »
As somebody who will probably move on in some capacity to Champions Online if CoH gets buried for good, presuming that Plan Z doesn't spring up very fast and very well, it'd be nice to see Champions getting some more serious and less cartoony story lines going and it'd be nice to see STO and Champions getting developers who might actually do something with Champions.

I always felt Champions had a stronger ground floor base than City of Heroes (more colors to costume parts, customized glow, asymmetrical costumes, free form power selection, faster and more dynamic combat, better handling of travel powers), but then built everything off that weaker than anything City of Heroes ever could (weaker story than CoH, worse graphics, far less actual powers even if CO's selection is more free form, less costume and color options overall, less power customization options overall than CoH, less facial structure and skeletal options than CoH, waaaaay less content than CoH, etc.). CoH Developers could do a lot of good there, if given even a fraction of the budget they had over in CoH.

All that qualifying stuff said, I wouldn't want them to move over to CO until CoH is actively dead, if they can help it, and in either case I'm extremely doubting the viability that Cryptic will do this anyways, because the whole point of this mess is trying to wrestle the CoH IP out of NCSoft's clammy hands. CoH already has rights to the CoH engine. It's not the technology they need, it's the actual rights to Statesman, Positron, Paragon City, Arachnos, etc.

Cryptic couldn't do anything with that IP for the SAME REASONS we can't.

Burnt Toast

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 547
  • Tastes Good!
Re: Sad yet hopeful news
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2012, 12:34:32 AM »

I think this person you are referring to you was either speaking completely out of their backside.



I spoke with someone in touch with people at Cryptic, he made a suggestion to me that after Champions Online gets a few more updates they are going to include the Paragon City history within Champions' backstory. Particularly after it gets the Foundry feature that Star Trek Online enjoys.

Sad, but possibly hopeful that at least the IP won't die.

downix

  • Phoenix Project Technical Lead
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,964
Re: Sad yet hopeful news
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2012, 12:39:36 AM »
Cryptic couldn't do anything with that IP for the SAME REASONS we can't.
Not necessarily. Cryptic might have included a perpetual access license to the IP. This is likely, considering that textures and some models are shared between the two games. No license, and Cryptic could not do this.

Victoria Victrix

  • Team Wildcard
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,869
  • If you don't try, you have failed.
    • Mercedes Lackey
Re: Sad yet hopeful news
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2012, 12:42:45 AM »
Speaking with authority as someone who works daily with IPs (Intellectual Properties)--

Either the person who you were speaking to does not understand IPs, or you do not, or possibly both.

Without PURCHASING the IP of City of Heroes, CO cannot legally include any part of it in CO.  Furthermore, if players in CO were to use the Foundary to CREATE City of Heroes stories including trademarked entities like Paragon City, Statesman, Positron, etc, CO would be obligated to delete them, and NCSoft would probably come down on them like Captain Hammer tm, just as they would if players created stories with Superman tm, Batman tm, or Wolverine tm.

I will go down with this ship.  I won't put my hands up in surrender.  There will be no white flag above my door.  I'm in love, and always will be.  Dido

DrakeGrimm

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 742
Re: Sad yet hopeful news
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2012, 12:44:35 AM »
Speaking with authority as someone who works daily with IPs (Intellectual Properties)--

Either the person who you were speaking to does not understand IPs, or you do not, or possibly both.

Without PURCHASING the IP of City of Heroes, CO cannot legally include any part of it in CO.  Furthermore, if players in CO were to use the Foundary to CREATE City of Heroes stories including trademarked entities like Paragon City, Statesman, Positron, etc, CO would be obligated to delete them, and NCSoft would probably come down on them like Captain Hammer tm, just as they would if players created stories with Superman tm, Batman tm, or Wolverine tm.

This.

* DrakeGrimm truffle shuffles out of the thread
We are the crazy ones, the mavericks, the dreamers, the forgotten sons. We color outside the lines for fun. We are the crazy ones! - "The Crazy Ones," Stellar Revival

"We put ourselves in "the attitude of heroes"--and we all became a little more heroic." - VV

Olantern

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 282
Re: Sad yet hopeful news
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2012, 12:46:08 AM »
This seems unlikely from an IP rights standpoint.  It would require Cryptic/Perfect World to buy the right to include CoH backstory elements in an online game.  They could certainly make an offer to do so, but given the lack of motion we've seen so far out of NCSoft, it seems unlikely that NCSoft would be willing to sell that right.  Note that the right to use a story element like this is totally separate from the right to use technical assets like models or game code.  The fact that there's a license for one part of the IP doesn't mean there's a license for the whole.

I could imagine CO ultimately including something meant to pay tribute to CoH, though, in much the same way that CoH tip missions include allusions to popular authors, comic book characters, the game's developers, etc.

Guardia

  • Underling
  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • Ninja Pirate
Re: Sad yet hopeful news
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2012, 12:48:37 AM »
The folks who hold the Champions license would ALSO have to give permission to merge the settings.

And their storylines have been around for DECADES longer than CoH.




-np

zybron

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 100
Re: Sad yet hopeful news
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2012, 01:14:01 AM »
The folks who hold the Champions license would ALSO have to give permission to merge the settings.

And their storylines have been around for DECADES longer than CoH.




-np
Cryptic (now PWI, I guess, but possibly still just Cryptic) owns the rights to Champions. They bought all of it when they decided to create CO.

Shadowe

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 146
  • Just don't tell Manticore...
Re: Sad yet hopeful news
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2012, 01:36:39 AM »
Can you imagine Steve Long's cries of anguish if the official Champions setting were to be uprooted that way? Youch.

Hero games have enough trouble launching stuff without the need to completely rewrite their main setting book.
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise. ; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise ; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.* FFM: I think you're mostly wise in this instance, apart from one part.

downix

  • Phoenix Project Technical Lead
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,964
Re: Sad yet hopeful news
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2012, 02:26:42 AM »
Can you imagine Steve Long's cries of anguish if the official Champions setting were to be uprooted that way? Youch.

Hero games have enough trouble launching stuff without the need to completely rewrite their main setting book.
Might not need to be that extreme. Portal corp access does wonders, and Champions did allow for cross-dimension travel.

steelrat70

  • Underling
  • *
  • Posts: 12
Re: Sad yet hopeful news
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2012, 05:53:40 AM »
Forgetting the fact that due to legal considerations this is incredibly unlikely, for me it'd be amongst the worst of possible outcomes.

I can't stand CO.  Losing CoH to it would be worse than losing COH altogether imo.

dwturducken

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,150
  • Now available in stereo
Re: Sad yet hopeful news
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2012, 02:01:15 PM »
If you want to get technical (What? Here? Ridiculous!), Cryptic purchased the IP for Champions outright and licensed it back to Hero. Part of the deal was the integration of the MMO with the 6th edition Hero rules. (That's taken from their website, and I've admittedly not done the due diligence to locate a corroborating source; I'll take that up with my journalism instructor...)

One of the side benefits of the activity in the Plan Z forum is that, should it come to the point where NCSoft and Paragon do not reach an understanding, but the possibility of selling the IP is still on the table, finding a backer or backers is less impossible if Titan Networks or one of its subsidiaries has a proof of concept available to show that we are actually serious about this.

Also, +5 to VV for the Dr. Horrible reference!
I wouldn't use the word "replace," but there's no word for "take over for you and make everything better almost immediately," so we just say "replace."

Omega Mark V

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 145
Re: Sad yet hopeful news
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2012, 03:18:59 PM »
Put it this way:

I bought CO thinking it would be "CoH2." I got a lifetime sub. I've hated it.

If they would do SOMETHING with the game to make it better, I may play it.

If CoH is gone, and SOMEHOW Cryptic would get the license/backstory for it, which I highly doubt, it'd be interesting.

Nonetheless, until CO doesn't suck, I won't play it.
- Omega Mk. V