Author Topic: There is Hope: Keep Fighting  (Read 8318 times)

Victoria Victrix

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Re: There is Hope: Keep Fighting
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2012, 11:22:44 PM »
If you use game-canonical content (characters, images, graphics) in an ad that NCSoft does not like, NCSoft can have it removed immediately for trademark infringement (MUCH faster way to move than copyright infringement), copyright infringement, and just plain "they didn't pay to use it."

This is how several bands have managed to get their music pulled from political ads that they do not approve of.

HOWEVER

If you use the game to create an original character(s), images and graphics that are NOT game-canonical, even if NCSoft does NOT approve, they have a much harder time getting it removed.  This is how political ads are able to stay on air or on net when they have blatantly stolen video footage from their opponents and reused it to reflect their stance.  There's no clear way to say "but they stole the use of my animation engine!"

Edit: I really need to finish statements before I move on to the next paragraph, /em facepalm.
I will go down with this ship.  I won't put my hands up in surrender.  There will be no white flag above my door.  I'm in love, and always will be.  Dido

P51mus

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Re: There is Hope: Keep Fighting
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2012, 11:24:01 PM »
Well, I suppose one thing it would do is see just where NCSoft wants to stand, publicly. They wouldn't do a C&D on a wiki because it supports their game, rather than competing with it. It's basically free work the fans were doing for them. If they don't like the ads when the ads come up, though...

...it will be telling, but it also could, if it comes up bad, hurt our attempts to keep both carrot and stick out there.

So yes, get some legal advice, if at all possible. I think it not a bad idea, save for that risk. Just keep the ads positive, promoting good things worth saving about CoH. Keep all negativity about NCSoft out, if at all possible. (I think the stuff fans have produced mostly lives up to that standard, fortunately.) "We want NCSoft to sell the IP before the game dies" is okay. That's not painting them as villains, merely as "needing to be persuaded."

I'm pretty sure any attempts to shut down ads would just bring more attention to them.  Remember, with the internet came the Streisand effect.

[EDIT: fixed link ~Agge]
« Last Edit: September 29, 2012, 04:03:08 AM by Aggelakis »

ThorsAssassin

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Re: There is Hope: Keep Fighting
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2012, 11:25:04 PM »
Thanks for posting this Khep! :)

Well, sorry to be the discouraging realist, but do keep in mind the following facts:

1. Thor's Assassin is not an official; he's a blogger. There is a move in the professional gaming community to save CoH, but as far as we know that could be just within Paragon, what's left of it. We already knew that Paragon is trying to scrape together something; we just don't know what.

2. We know what some of those key elements are going to be: first, this movement needs money to pay NCSoft for whatever NCSoft is willing to part with. Second, it will need cooperation on NCSoft's part - we still don't know what plans NCSoft had, or how CoH didn't fit into them. If NCSoft is planning on releasing another MMO or something and doesn't want CoH to compete with it, then they will do what they can to kill any attempt to revive it. Last, keeping CoH up and running, or raising it from the dead, will require staff to maintain it. I'm sure all of these things are currently on the negotiating table.


Point 1 - It's true I am a blogger but it's also true that I am as invested in the saving of this game as anyone. What is also true is that I went to the community dinner as a supporter of Paragon Studios, the community and the SaveCoh campaign. I return as a messenger who cannot reveal everything I learned due to protecting the employees and former employees of Paragon Studios.

What I CAN safely say is that it's not just Paragon and the community here, hell it's not even just the professional gaming community. Some of the people involved that could affect change and make a difference aren't in the gaming industry, don't even know why there is even an uproar over it. They see it as just a game and it's our job as the ones invested in the game and community to adequately relay just what this game and community mean to us. They need to know why it is something worth saving in the first place. They have no idea what it's like to be in a virtual community. So go out there and yell it from the rooftops to make them understand that.

Point 2 - This is the part where I cannot say a lot about. Though it's more than money needed, it's the process it would take to separate Coh from NCSoft and all the complications that go with that. They are in constant negotiation though and are actively trying to find a way to make it happen. Wish I could say more on this because it was inspiring what is taking place behind the scenes.

« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 11:34:26 PM by ThorsAssassin »

emu265

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Re: There is Hope: Keep Fighting
« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2012, 11:28:49 PM »
Thanks for posting this Khep! :)

Point 1 - It's true I am a blogger but it's also true that I am as invested in the saving of this game as anyone. What is also true is that I went to the community as a supporter of Paragon Studio, the community and the SaveCoh campaign. I return as a messenger who cannot reveal everything I learned due to protecting the employees and former employees of Paragon Studios.

What I CAN safely say is that it's not just Paragon and the community here, hell it's not even just the professional gaming community. Some of the people involved that could affect change and make a difference aren't in the gaming industry, don't even know why there is even an uproar over it. They see it as just a game and it's our job as the ones invested in the game and community to adequately relay just what this game and community mean to us. They need to know why it is something worth saving in the first place. They have no idea what it's like to be in a virtual community. So go out there and yell it from the rooftops to make them understand that.

Point 2 - This is the part where I cannot say a lot about. Though it's more than money needed, it's the process it would take to separate Coh from NCSoft and all the complications that go with that. They are in constant negotiation though and are actively trying to find a way to make it happen. Wish I could say more on this because it was inspiring what is taking place behind the scenes.

Wow.  Um, as much as I'd love to know what you heard in full, what you just said was pretty uplifting.  So, they are actually trying to sever Cities from NCSoft, huh?  This pleases me.

Victoria Victrix

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Re: There is Hope: Keep Fighting
« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2012, 11:30:27 PM »
Thanks ThorsAssassin.  Thank you very much.  This is what I have been getting the sense of from Brian Clayton, but of course he can't actually tell me much.

Did not hear from Brian midweek, but I have the feeling he figured ThorsAssassin would probably pass on all that was "legal" at this point.  I usually hear from him late Sunday night, which seems to be when he catches up on email.
I will go down with this ship.  I won't put my hands up in surrender.  There will be no white flag above my door.  I'm in love, and always will be.  Dido

DrakeGrimm

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Re: There is Hope: Keep Fighting
« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2012, 11:31:46 PM »
/em HoldTorch
We are the crazy ones, the mavericks, the dreamers, the forgotten sons. We color outside the lines for fun. We are the crazy ones! - "The Crazy Ones," Stellar Revival

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ThorsAssassin

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Re: There is Hope: Keep Fighting
« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2012, 11:39:24 PM »
Thanks ThorsAssassin.  Thank you very much.  This is what I have been getting the sense of from Brian Clayton, but of course he can't actually tell me much.

Did not hear from Brian midweek, but I have the feeling he figured ThorsAssassin would probably pass on all that was "legal" at this point.  I usually hear from him late Sunday night, which seems to be when he catches up on email.

You are very welcome Merecedes! It was Brian who we mostly heard from at the dinner, he actually sought us out as players to give us updates. He was the one that was carrying the spirit and is someone working hard to save the game. He actually spent more time with us then he did with the team. I have a pic there where Matt had to come seek him out haha.

But it was definitely encouraging to hear him talk with such zeal. Last thing I heard from him when I left was "It's isn't over yet" and that gave me a big smile.

chaparralshrub

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Re: There is Hope: Keep Fighting
« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2012, 01:25:08 AM »
Thanks for posting this Khep! :)

Point 1 - It's true I am a blogger but it's also true that I am as invested in the saving of this game as anyone. What is also true is that I went to the community dinner as a supporter of Paragon Studios, the community and the SaveCoh campaign. I return as a messenger who cannot reveal everything I learned due to protecting the employees and former employees of Paragon Studios.

What I CAN safely say is that it's not just Paragon and the community here, hell it's not even just the professional gaming community. Some of the people involved that could affect change and make a difference aren't in the gaming industry, don't even know why there is even an uproar over it. They see it as just a game and it's our job as the ones invested in the game and community to adequately relay just what this game and community mean to us. They need to know why it is something worth saving in the first place. They have no idea what it's like to be in a virtual community. So go out there and yell it from the rooftops to make them understand that.

Point 2 - This is the part where I cannot say a lot about. Though it's more than money needed, it's the process it would take to separate Coh from NCSoft and all the complications that go with that. They are in constant negotiation though and are actively trying to find a way to make it happen. Wish I could say more on this because it was inspiring what is taking place behind the scenes.


I did not expect a response to my post - thank you so very, very much for clarifying! This is indeed good news! If you are still in touch with them, tell Paragon that this forumer wishes the best possible for them! :)


And thank you very much for your insights on intellectual property, Ms. Lackey (not to mention your deservedly award-winning books)! :)

Kheprera

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Re: There is Hope: Keep Fighting
« Reply #28 on: September 29, 2012, 01:47:40 AM »
FWIW I would trust TA with the lives of my kids.

I know how passionate he is about CoH (just look at his commissioned art gallery).  His words brought my hope back.

sass

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Re: There is Hope: Keep Fighting
« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2012, 02:12:47 AM »

LOL Khep .. I have entrusted TA with my kids - am STILL entrusting TA with my kids .. they adore him!!  - so .. you're right there!   ;D

I didn't go to the coh dinner - but I"m so proud to be part of this community.  Keeping my fingers and toes crossed too ....

Segev

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Re: There is Hope: Keep Fighting
« Reply #30 on: September 29, 2012, 03:16:37 AM »
Some of the people involved that could affect change and make a difference aren't in the gaming industry, don't even know why there is even an uproar over it. They see it as just a game and it's our job as the ones invested in the game and community to adequately relay just what this game and community mean to us. They need to know why it is something worth saving in the first place. They have no idea what it's like to be in a virtual community. So go out there and yell it from the rooftops to make them understand that.
Perhaps these "people involved that could affect change and make a difference" would be some to whom an invitation to attend our Media Day event we're working to organize. Would you be able to extend that invitation to them?

zoser

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Re: There is Hope: Keep Fighting
« Reply #31 on: September 29, 2012, 04:10:21 AM »
This was a morale boost that I sorely needed, thanks a mill, TA. If dedication, creativity and will in themselves were enough, we'd have this one in the bag already, sadly there is more and the silence from the NCSOFT side is hard to take. But I will not give up - if we manage to pull this one off, we have made gaming history. But mostly we will have saved our home!

We are heroes, this is what we do! I must remember that.

The-Hunter-JLJ

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Re: There is Hope: Keep Fighting
« Reply #32 on: September 29, 2012, 05:50:00 AM »
(grin) I never liked Statesman, really. He just rubbed me the wrong way. Oh well.

zoser

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Re: There is Hope: Keep Fighting
« Reply #33 on: September 29, 2012, 10:04:05 AM »
You should have enjoyed mission 5 of "Who will die?" then ... :)
Anyway, let's hope that the City survives his passing - we will certainly do all we can to make that happen!

chaparralshrub

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Re: There is Hope: Keep Fighting
« Reply #34 on: September 29, 2012, 04:43:32 PM »
Actually, I find that scene to be anticlimactic. But I'm more upset about season 6. I rather like Manticore, and I'd like him to be happier.  :'(


Oh well, here's some inspirational music.

And, if the city doesn't get saved, then maybe this is the fate of the world without the city

We have to keep this up, fellow villains (and heroes)! The Stars are Right!
« Last Edit: September 29, 2012, 04:50:21 PM by chaparralshrub »

Cold Bob

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Re: There is Hope: Keep Fighting
« Reply #35 on: October 02, 2012, 06:33:25 PM »
/;holdtorch  :)

Tahliah

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Re: There is Hope: Keep Fighting
« Reply #36 on: October 02, 2012, 07:11:55 PM »
/em holdtorch

Knightslayer

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Re: There is Hope: Keep Fighting
« Reply #37 on: October 02, 2012, 07:25:59 PM »
(grin) I never liked Statesman, really. He just rubbed me the wrong way. Oh well.
Did you read Web of Arachnos and the Freedom Phalanx, JLJ?
They at least show a different side of him than the aloof jerk he is in the comics.

Blacjac84

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Re: There is Hope: Keep Fighting
« Reply #38 on: October 02, 2012, 07:37:49 PM »
ThorsAssassin kinda confirmed what I suspected was going on, but at the moment, it really a speculation.  If indeed NCSoft is severing ties with CoH, then I think the obvious deal that's being haggled is what will NCSoft get in return.  Until the real news finally comes out, we'll just have to wait and see.