Author Topic: Why its time for war (figuratively)  (Read 2774 times)

Sleepy Wonder

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Why its time for war (figuratively)
« on: October 04, 2012, 06:36:27 PM »
Nobody likes war. Nobody wants war, but somehow, we always find ourselves led to it eventually.

Why? Because a quick look at the history of any war will tell you one thing. One side or the other failed to compromise.

Listen. We've all been holding our fire for too long now. We tried to negotiate, we tried to be civil and we sent NCSoft the equivalent of our "declaration of independence". People, to include TonyV, have gotten not even a reply. King George has basically laughed at us.

Now I know what you're thinking.. NCSoft is a corporation, City of Heroes is their IP and this isn't really war. I get that.

But the answers we have all been shoveled simply don't add up. To quote some politician here, "The Math Doesn't Add Up."

Why doesn't it add up? It's simple really.. NCSoft clearly sees City of Heroes as a non-bread winner. What do they have to lose by selling the IP if they believe it to be unprofitable enough? Why would they be afraid of competition if the game clearly has no clear future to them? If they are afraid of the current team picking it up and doing better with them.. well why couldn't they do better before? SOMEONE made this decision not to sell ultimately, if negotiations ever really did take place. Their head must roll.

So clearly NCSoft HAS NOT exhausted all options, even long before City of Heroes was scheduled to failure. I hope you are still with me here. Because this next point is incredibly important.

They could have done so much more to flourish CoH's success. I realize the support they gave the game was in our best interest at the time, but there are NO BRAINER things they never did do with City of Heroes that even someone like me with no marketing experience whatsoever would see as a no brainer. I don't even have business experience.

But I don't need either of those to see how painfully obvious it is that there is some serious mismanagement going on in NCSoft. They could have spun City of Heroes in incredible ways to make it more appealing and more mainstream, but they don't like to advertise. Advertisement is the blood of American consumerism. I know how much of a contradiction it is to say I have no business or marketing experience.. so what the hell would I know, right? Well I'm a CONSUMER. As far as I'm concerned, the customer knows best. THIS HAS ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS BEEN TRUE AND THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO BELIEVE THIS ANYMORE! IT IS THE BUSINESS EQUIVALENT OF A ROGUE GOVERNMENT TAKING AWAY OUR CIVIL RIGHTS! SO LONG AS CONSUMERS REMAIN SILENT THEY HAVE NO POWER!

Something absent in the business world for a long time now. This all but disappeared after the great wars when industrialism took root, and it became more about the bigger, bottom line than the customer. Remember how it was back then? Not anymore. It was as if there was a big greedy land rush after those big wars to take advantage of all the holes in the worlds economy since.

In any case, regarding advertising in America, anyone doing business in America should know this. It's as if they don't understand the concept of spending money on advertisement and the ROI it can bring in if done right.

Someone, somewhere, failed. Badly. Their head must roll.

And someone, somewhere, made the ultimate decision to close City of Heroes for unknown reasons. People make mistakes. Maybe we are wrong, maybe we're not. Maybe we can fix this mistake, in some way ultimately.

Yes, unknown. As far as I'm concerned a rumor is a dime a dozen. We have had no official word on anything. NOT EVEN AN ASKING PRICE FOR THE IP.

You can spin it how you want it, but NCSoft would sell City of Heroes in a heart beat if someone came to them with a $2b offer. You can't deny that. So while $2b is unrealistic, we have to assume there IS infact a price somewhere. But they arn't willing to make that effort.

They arn't even willing to give us the ultimate response that would end this whole thing today.

A simple "Why..?".

It's not their business to tell us customers why. We are told what we are told. To big business, we're sheep with money. That is how most big corporations at the top treat us. The further down you go, the more sympathy we get, but more often than naught, those people are powerless to change things. They're lower management.

Try as they might, the mothership says no. Too bad. We don't care.

Well that is what we've been told, so what do we have to lose? Please, tell me? What do we have to lose? If we're truly a blip on their radar, who will care, right? Wrong.

We CAN make a difference. I'm not advocating negative things in this "war" here. I'm advocating we bring it up to the next level. We must abandon all efforts to negotiate with those who do not have the power to change things.

We have to go after the mothership here and we have to put on our war paint. Buying the Dev's dinner was honorable, akin to losing a squad to save one man in this field we're in. But we have to start showing the "enemy" we mean business and we're a foe to be reckoned with.

It's hard to speak of this war without sounding like I'm advocating bad things from our community, so I'm going to emphasize again, it's not what I'm suggesting.

But WE NEED to think bigger. We need to make a bigger impact.

NCSoft complained we were "disrupting normal business" by our email campaign. This is a double edged sword here. On the one hand, we didn't intend that, but on the other hand, that was sort of our point. To make our voices heard.

See how cleverly they spun that? They made it out to be like we were the problem here, not them. That's PR for you. You would be amazed at what goes on in business today. They FOOL you into retreating back and you don't even know it.

I'm NOT advocating we spam them or mail bomb them or anything.. but we all shut up the moment they told us "Okay okay, please stop."

THAT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE OR GOOD ENOUGH!

If City of Heroes is a blip on their radar as some have said, then I find it hard to believe we disrupted anything. They could have simply had their IT folk reroute any emails with the word "heroes" to the junk folder. Better yet, the people who's emails we were emailing could have done that in their filter settings.

I have a lot of ideas, but I can't do it alone. I'm sick of standing by and watching nothing happen.

As far as I'm concerned, we are all being blind folded by the clever PR people at NCSoft.

Management at NCSoft has to change. Corporations have to change. We hold incredible power as consumers, not just with our wallets. Our voices alone might be a pin drop in a crowd, but as a crowd, we can be heard.

WE are the consumer. WE are the ones that keep these companies ALIVE. Without US, THEY are nothing. Do not let them for a moment make you think it's the other way around. By doing so, they can pull what they're pulling now.

You think they have the ultimate power in money and influence, that they can shut off our community with the flip of a switch. Well fine, let them. But you know what?

WE ARE ALL STILL HERE. And it's high time someone in Korea heard just how insignificant we are, which is where we need to focus our efforts.

We want their supposedly "failed" "IP" that doesn't fit into their company goals anymore. We want to carry on the legacy because we all see it as something still profitable and worth fighting for.

I for one will not go quietly and twiddle my thumbs while waiting for the next announcement of how they love the game but are not willing to make an effort.

By their lack of their willingness to make an effort, we have the advantage in that we ARE willing to make one for them.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2012, 04:58:40 AM by Aggelakis »

Ironwolf

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Re: Call to Action: Why its time for war (figuratively)
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2012, 06:42:14 PM »
Hence the reason to do the exact same things we did to NCSoft to EVERY listed stockholder.

Make it obvious and uncomfortable - make them want it to go away.

Aggelakis

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Re: Why its time for war (figuratively)
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2012, 04:59:13 AM »
This.... err, isn't a call to action, so I removed that from the thread title. Please don't overuse the phrase.
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dwturducken

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Re: Why its time for war (figuratively)
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2012, 05:24:56 AM »
Yeah, I don't like it when people who aren't Tony use it.  I wasn't gonna say anything, but it is fun to play with. ("Call to Attention, Polite Throat-Clearing to Action," you get the idea)
I wouldn't use the word "replace," but there's no word for "take over for you and make everything better almost immediately," so we just say "replace."

Victoria Victrix

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Re: Why its time for war (figuratively)
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2012, 05:26:35 AM »
That's why I've been using "Light a Fire" as in "light a fire under their tail."
I will go down with this ship.  I won't put my hands up in surrender.  There will be no white flag above my door.  I'm in love, and always will be.  Dido

Sleepy Wonder

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Re: Why its time for war (figuratively)
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2012, 06:36:47 AM »
Yeah, I don't like it when people who aren't Tony use it.  I wasn't gonna say anything, but it is fun to play with. ("Call to Attention, Polite Throat-Clearing to Action," you get the idea)

Well you my good sir, don't have to like it.

It IS a call to action, but I get what you're saying. It's a reserved title for major event focusing, so I will refrain from using it.

At the same time though, if only Tony is allowed to use it, then my efforts are done here and I will pack up and take my ball and cash with me.

Some of the current calls to action are moot at this point, and if people don't wake up then all has been lost.

Since I am entitled to my opinion here (I hope, otherwise this isn't the community I want to be a part of), then to Aggelakis, why are threads calling for action in-game still stickied?

The way I see it, no amount of server populated events anymore are worthwhile efforts to make any real changes or impacts. They only serve to rally morale to a now dwindling supply of people still willing to log in, and I can guarantee you the number of people who currently still do is much less than the number of people who read the CoH forums, these forums, track the sites and more.

The next big spike will likely come during the last days of CoH.
(appears they're no longer there, point nullified)

People need to be drawn to REAL action and REAL things that will make a difference. If you still want people to hold virtual torches in-game that the CEO of NCSoft and half the investors will probably never witness themselves, then go on ahead.

But this thread is about getting people to do more. I'm not crapping on anyone's efforts, I'm just trying to be real about the situation at hand, and it isn't good. If you want change, you have to work hard for it. You have to be willing to do hard work. And hard work isn't typing /em holdtorch anymore. I was there, I did it, but it's time to change tactics.

You don't need TonyV or someone else to tell you what to do 24/7. Inspire people to step out on their own and generate their own ideas. TonyV is a leader amongst many leaders here, but as far as I'm concerned, he's not my leader or "the" leader. I doubt he wants to be either or even sees himself as such. He wants to save CoH as much as anyone else, and I'm sure the burden of having everyone depend on him is more than little much to wither on his own.

I hope in any case, at least someone realizes the point of this thread. The situation at hand calls for a different approach. If you want to roll your eyes at me at least I can leave knowing I've tried to open some peoples eyes.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2012, 06:46:52 AM by Sleepy Wonder »

Dr Shadow

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Re: Call to Action: Why its time for war (figuratively)
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2012, 06:43:42 AM »
Hence the reason to do the exact same things we did to NCSoft to EVERY listed stockholder.

Make it obvious and uncomfortable - make them want it to go away.
Other than Nexon who else is a stockholder?
Do we send letters/emails/ capes & masks to Nexon and the rest of the Stockholders?
Nexon, was founded in Korea, but HQ in Japan-- do we use the kibun with them as well?

Sorry, for the questions, but I'm starting to turn in circles at what needs to be done, like a dog chasing it's own tail.
I'm not trying to be difficult, trust me, I've invested a lot into this. Point me in a direction and I will go full bore.
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Sleepy Wonder

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Re: Why its time for war (figuratively)
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2012, 06:55:07 AM »
For all we know it could be 20 people or 20,000 sending a few of them now. I don't know if anyone has an official number or what kind of impact its making. Tracking down every individual stockholder is kind of impossible, and sending those kinds of things to Nexon itself is iffy. I say this because if its a small number of them, they'll probably say "Well that's cute." and move on with the rest of their day. You have to remember the competition we're also dealing with. If sending them masks and stuff is going to be worthwhile, it has to be A. TON.

Think of it like the atom bomb. You've got 1 person with a nuke (us), and 500,000 with rifles (major numbers, e.g. Guild Wars 2).

Who is going to make the bigger visual impact when push comes to shove? When it comes to opinion?

So we need a nuke. We need to know our efforts are being exponentially worthwhile. We don't need millions of subscribers, we just need a bigger stick than the competition.

gandales

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Re: Why its time for war (figuratively)
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2012, 06:56:52 AM »
However, there are no details that are required to understand if NCSoft is just sitting on CoH. For instance, there are no details on the offer they received for CoH. It would be contradictory to ask them to give it away easily when we are claiming that its so valuable. If somebody is constantly saying I want to buy X product, the seller is going to increase its price, it's a no brainer.

For the specific case of the IP, I know we would love to have everything solve in short time frame. However, it is not necessarily the way these things could go. Like selling a house, sellers can take their time to get the best offer. In the case of an IP, which does not have significant maintenance costs, they could sit on it for months, even years.

How much does CoH's IP worth?

P51mus

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Re: Why its time for war (figuratively)
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2012, 08:10:19 AM »
How much does CoH's IP worth?

A rapidly depreciating value once the game shuts down.  And much less if they don't keep any account info.

LadyWizard

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Re: Why its time for war (figuratively)
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2012, 09:58:17 PM »
Sorry but I got turned off midrant... calling the dinner for the devs the equivelent of saving private ryan where we lost more than we gained just didn't seem right.  I'd consider it more along the lines of the christmas on the front lines in WWII where Germans and Allies sat down for the day to realize they're just people and have fun

dwturducken

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Re: Why its time for war (figuratively)
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2012, 10:44:20 PM »
Well you my good sir, don't have to like it.

I wasn't making it personal, just commenting. If I really felt like trollicorning instead of being civil and trying to work with the message, I could get pretty nasty, but what does that accomplish.  There are lots of things going on here, and things being said, that I don't like or agree with, but that's irrelevant to what we're trying to do here.  If your pride is injured, I'm sorry. If it's that easy to injure, I'll stay off your thread, but we are trying to do something good here, and that's important to keep in mind. We're all on the same side.

To elaborate, if we overuse the phrase, it dilutes its effectiveness. To make a loose analogy, the "personal" anecdote of a candidate referring to someone they supposedly met on the campaign trail is so overused, I believe it's worth two shots on some of the debate drinking games I saw being passed around the internet at the beginning of the week.  A call to action is fine, but we are all of us subject to limits of one kind or another, mostly financial, so we can't respond to all of them, and we feel bad about the ones that we can't.

That said, I think the general feel is that the time for nice is over. Polite does not mean nice, as the business practices of Japanese corporations, particularly as they began making inroads into the US markets in the 60s and 70s.  Not that what they did was bad, but there was a polite ruthlessness to it that bears closer examination.  We are not many, but if each of us can sway the opinion of one other NCSoft customer, we are doubled. This is how movements grow: slowly and inexorably. If they don't want to listen, then we need to show them we are not going to just go away.
I wouldn't use the word "replace," but there's no word for "take over for you and make everything better almost immediately," so we just say "replace."