Why Disney and not Valve?

[Erika]

First of all, let me just say that I don't really mind who ends up running CoX if it ever gets picked up again.  I just don't get why we want it to be run by a huge megacorp like Disney who might not understand this game's audience as much as another might. 

Meanwhile, Valve's one of few non-evil gaming companies, plus one of the only mainstream developers I can think of that still publishes their own games as well. Plus they have experience running free-to-play games, with both TF2 and DoTA 2 being F2P with a cash shop.  Plus they were one of the companies making an offer months ago.  They made an offer that got turned down, yes, but since then it's been revealed that NC wouldn't be selling until after the 1st, if at all.  So why shouldn't they try again once it's back on the table?


That said, I can see, partly -why- you'd want to pitch it to Disney. Superheroes are at the most popular they've been for years  and it's primarily because of the Marvel Films movies.  Disney's rolling in that MCU money and just diving into it like they're Scrooge McDuck, so why wouldn't they want to get another piece of that superpowered pie, right? They already have a game they're promoting as an MMO, and another in development, so they're not going to want competition for their new baby, even if they're getting the money for all of them. 

And, going back to my point about Valve, I feel like they're more likely to try and piece together the remnants of Paragon than Disney is to try and get their in-house teams to learn how to code the game.

That said, I realize it's probably too late to try and change course, what with all the big name fans supporting the Disney effort, I just wanted to share my 2 inf.

[Battle Ant]

If things fall through with Disney, I see no reason not to try Valve.

[Sajaana]

I think both are great options, but I have the sense that Disney would have more of an incentive to develop it or expand upon it.  Valve could develop it more, if they wanted to, but I think they'd be more likely to just distribute it "as is" on their Steam service.

[Ammon]

You know that Valve has considerable dealings with Nexon and NCsoft for other games, right?  That may not actually be a help to them, and might be a hindrance.  It gives NCsoft additional leverage, and the fact that NCsoft already turned down an offer from Valve (that was very low, and would still be too low after closure) doesn't help. 

Honestly, I think Valve would have to at least double what they were prepared to offer while the game was alive.  Do you think Valve will value the game twice as highly closed as alive?  If so, they are going to be free to make an offer. 

We already made it known to Valve we'd like them to buy it.  All that's changed is that they now know even Disney might consider it, and that we'll keep going until we run out of people to talk to.

[JWBullfrog]

If any western company has the sheer clout to stroll on in and ask NCSoft to sell them something, it would be Disney. Love them or hate them, they are the closest thing to an unstoppable force in the entertainment industry.
 
Disney has a very good record for taking care of the properties they aquire. Also, as has been pointed out, they would have the funding to expand the game and, perhaps, it's successor.

[Quinch]

Valve is definitely on the list if the Disney push doesn't succeed. Personally, Valve would be my first choice for a superhero game, but Disney is definitely my first choice for a superhero game. Also, it's a question of success - with Valve, it's a question of can they and will they buy the game. With Disney, it just becomes of will they - if they decide CoH is worth their time, I'm having a problem imagining NCsoft being an immovable object in the face of its unstoppable force.

[HEATSTROKE]

Why.. one main reason for me.. Disney might be the one company who understands the value of the Superhero genre.. and how to market it.. which they have obviously done a pretty good job with already...

[Victoria Victrix]

Valve is on the list, but we started at the top and are working our way down, rather than working our way up. 

This is why we are going in that direction.  To get Disney's attention, we will need a HUGE response from the players.  We can still get that now.  A month from now, not so much.  Two months from now...three months from now...you guys are going to be worn out.  Tired of sending out letters and getting nothing.

To get Disney's attention, we will also need a HUGE response from the gaming press.  We can still get that now.  A month from now and it will be "It's dead, just drop it and move on to something else why don't you?"  You might have noticed that there are hints of that already in the comments sections.

So, Disney first.  Then we have a second target, almost as big, but one that won't need the gaming press notice.  Then (I expect) Valve.

[Osborn]

I don't know why people think Valve is a charity or some sort of gaming messiah. They're pretty much going down the route that both EA and Activision did when they started up. EA basically was a break away company of guys that were fed up with the publishing arm of their previous jobs, then built their own arm who, god willing, let them to do some of their own terrible practices to its own developers.

Steam might be convenient for the short term, but there's plenty of potential for abuse there, and it's a platform set up to both weaken customer rights in the form of resell and to weaken retail (IE, the job that 75% of us statistically likely have). They're a business, not your friend or lover. Treat them as such.

And that said, I don't know why people think that Valve will, or can, just sweep down and pick up the tab for this. Again, as I said before, they're not a charity.

Valve actually has very good reasons to avoid picking up the property, notably the fact that Steam is currently a provider for both Nexon and Perfect World's MMO's.

I think that's why the rumor that they've tried to save CoH is so persistent despite no evidence to such. The rumor that NCSoft and Nexon are buying out Valve comes up so often, because people like to see them as some sort of saints and love to gnash their teeth in fear over it.

The reason why Disney is a good first pick is because Disney actually has the muscle to take this game and run with it, and the know how with the genre to succeed at it potentially. And I'm not trying to portray them as some sort of gaming messiah either, because they're not.

[Chaos Ex Machina]

Valve already offered but I suppose we could try to convince them to try again.

Personally I prefer them to any alternatives except fan ownership.

[Victoria Victrix]

Valve already offered but I suppose we could try to convince them to try again.

Personally I prefer them to any alternatives except fan ownership.

That was a rumor that I was completely unable to confirm with my contacts.

[Battle Ant]

Valve actually has very good reasons to avoid picking up the property, notably the fact that Steam is currently a provider for both Nexon and Perfect World's MMO's.

Valve is in direct competition with EA's Origin but still sells EA's products.

[Erika]

Valve is in direct competition with EA's Origin but still sells EA's products.

EA also publishes their console games.

[Knightslayer]

Fixed... there are some notable games that were originally available on Steam but are no longer present (or were never there in the 1st place). Dragon Age 2 was originally on Steam but EA pulled it, Mass Effect 3 never made it onto steam. Battlefield 3, Football Manager, FIFA, Medal Of Honor: Warfighter are the same.

I suspect that if they ever manage to rid Origin of its reputation of being a piece of crap they will use it for all their games instead of Steam (and ensure all the profits stay in house )

[Knightslayer]

With the exception of The Sims and a few *non franchise* games, I believe that they are stopping their own titles from going onto Steam, so you will end up at *one point* or another of just having to lump it and take Origin. I have to admit, I have had few issues with Origin, and when I have had them (this was redeeming a code), it was resolved quickly with their customer support.

ME 3 gave me a huge headache, and it took forever to resolve with their customer support.
Including one of their oh so helpful support people closing the chat on me after telling me to just go back to my local store to exchange my bonus content code and without waiting for a reply from me =P
Guess what? There was nothing wrong with the code.
Granted, that was the only time Origin gave me issues, it has worked properly in all other cases.

[Battle Ant]

Fixed... there are some notable games that were originally available on Steam but are no longer present (or were never there in the 1st place). Dragon Age 2 was originally on Steam but EA pulled it, Mass Effect 3 never made it onto steam. Battlefield 3, Football Manager, FIFA, Medal Of Honor: Warfighter are the same.

The point was and still is that EA still sells its products on Steam. So what is stopping Valve from acquiring CoH? Nothing, if they are interested in buying it and NCSoft will sell it.

[Noyjitat]

Sorry did I miss something? Where is the info about Disney being interested in this game?

edit: Ah the thread about sending them letters got it.

[Quinch]

The point was and still is that EA still sells its products on Steam. So what is stopping Valve from acquiring CoH? Nothing, if they are interested in buying it and NCSoft will sell it.

This is the primary reason we went to Disney first - if Disney is interest, NCsoft won't have a choice. Valve is popular and successful, but Disney - Disney is That One Guy You Don't Want To Cross.

[Omega Mark V]

I agree that Disney should be our first way to go. They're a huge company, and could really make CoH shine.

I REALLY hope the second company isn't EA. <.<

As for Valve, I know they would do well with what CoH is now, but I don't know if they would want to further develop it. Maybe they might, maybe they might not, I don't have the information to say which.

Nonetheless, if Valve would work on it, they would do a great job; as they usually do making games.

More importantly: We need to get the game into SOMEONES hands. It doesn't really matter whom at the moment.

[Segev]

This is the primary reason we went to Disney first - if Disney is interest, NCsoft won't have a choice. Valve is popular and successful, but Disney - Disney is That One Guy You Don't Want To Cross.

I'm not so sure they can make an offer that genuinely can't be refused, but it would make their financials a living nightmare if word got out that they were turning down offers from giants like Disney. It might make them look tough...but it more likely would make them look foolish.

Still, Disney can't force them. They can only make the choice not to sell very, very unattractive.

[Quinch]

That's the plan. I mean, their stock price is still desperately trying to claw back up after the dive it took after they published their financials.

If Disney made an offer and NCsoft refused, they wouldn't only be seen as the vandals of the MMO world. They'd become a laughingstock.

[Quinch]

Not sure where you came up with the $1 idea. I'm not suggesting that Disney blackmails NCsoft. But if Disney made a reasonable offer, and NCsoft refused it {because like we've seen before, they're not above letting pettiness dictate their business decisions} then yes, they'd be laughed out of the market. And while at the end of the day, I still think they value financials above reputation, said reputation would be trashed in front of their customers - whether they care about face or not, losing it publicly is something that would screw with their business something fierce.

[Quinch]

I understand - I just figured I'd mention that I don't really expect Disney to go in with the intent to trash the deal, since it would hardly benefit them either.

[Nafaustu]

<snip>

I REALLY hope the second company isn't EA. <.<

<snip>

There are worse things, afterall, Ultima Online is still up, community stable, and has a slow but steady content development cycle.    I dislike EA (mostly for forcing Origin, and other money related shady things), but I have to give them this.

[Rae]

I REALLY hope the second company isn't EA. <.<

To put your mind at rest, it's not

[P51mus]

To put your mind at rest, it's not

Warner brothers?  That's the other big entertainment company that's been acquiring game studios lately.

[Quinch]

Warner brothers?

And the Warner sister? 

But maybe.

[Profit]

And the Warner sister? 

+1 internets for you good sir.

[TimtheEnchanter]

And the Warner sister? 

But maybe.

Dot?

[eabrace]

Dot?

Princess Angelina Contessa Louisa Francesca Banana Fanna Bo Besca the Third

[Profit]

Princess Angelina Contessa Louisa Francesca Banana Fanna Bo Besca the Third

Oh sure, easy for you to say Mr. United States, Canada, Mexico, Panama.

*storms off*

[DrakeGrimm]

...but where are we all going to find rubber pants in our size? Poit.

[Segev]

We are not allowed to have a mysterious supervillain out to take over the world from within a nondescript laboratory who may or may not be a rodent of some variety.

[Axonius]

Don't forget that it's not just about the payout that NCSoft would receive for the sale.

NCSoft, by selling CoX to Disney, is essentially selling the rights to their product to a competitor or potential competitor.  The last thing NCSoft wants right now is a competitor. This is probably whats tied into the provisions in NCSofts contracts to potential buyers....I'm sure they are willing to sell CoX, but they do not want the game to be a threat to their future business.

I think this is the main reason that there has been no deal. Preventing possible future competition.

[unladenswallow]

My personal experiences and a little educated guesswork make me think that there maybe one other possible reason that would make Disney a good choice to approach NC Soft. Most of Southeast Asia, China in particular, is absolutely in LOVE with any thing Disney. I was in China for several months back in 2006 in Beijing and around Shanghai and I couldn't go more that a few blocks in any sizable shopping area without seeing a Disney knock off store. When meeting people the most frequent question I was asked outside what was Dallas like (The old prime time soap "Dallas" is still very popular there) was had I ever been to Disneyland. I don't think that I could understate how popular it is over there.

I was in Malaysia a few years later for several months. I didn't see nearly as many knock off Disney stores but quite a bit of knockoff Disney merchandise. Well, to be honest you really have to look around to find something that isn't a knockoff in China and at least some parts of Malaysia but their love of all things Disney is easy to see.

I haven't been to Korea but I've heard that they have a knockoff Disneyland there. Much of Southeast Asia, like Korea, has at least some usually old and very understandable disdain for Western nations given their attempts to dominate parts of Southeast Asia for hundreds of years. However I am aware that most of Korea's disdain for the US stems from the military bases they still have there. If Disney is loved only half as much in Korea as it is in China then it's quite possible that NC Soft would be very hard pressed to say no to them even if they don't think much of the US gaming industry and it's players as they have shown by the way they have treated Paragon Studios and us.

[Victoria Victrix]

Don't forget that it's not just about the payout that NCSoft would receive for the sale.

NCSoft, by selling CoX to Disney, is essentially selling the rights to their product to a competitor or potential competitor.  The last thing NCSoft wants right now is a competitor. This is probably whats tied into the provisions in NCSofts contracts to potential buyers....I'm sure they are willing to sell CoX, but they do not want the game to be a threat to their future business.

I think this is the main reason that there has been no deal. Preventing possible future competition.

I can't tell you from what source I know, but this is incorrect.

Fansy's post has all the clues.  His insider intimated that the problem was with "legal liabilities" that would go away once the game was officially closed.  My source corroborates that, adding that the legal liabilities amounted to several pages that no one sane would sign off on.

[Osborn]

I can't tell you from what source I know, but this is incorrect.

Fansy's post has all the clues.  His insider intimated that the problem was with "legal liabilities" that would go away once the game was officially closed.  My source corroborates that, adding that the legal liabilities amounted to several pages that no one sane would sign off on.

Really at this point it sounds like NCSoft fancies itself the Grinch. Like they don't want money, they don't want positive public relations or customer loyalty (which is a means to money, I guess).

They seem to be taking some sort of satisfaction out of killing something that people loved for no real other reason than, pardon the french, evlulz

[JWBullfrog]

Princess Angelina Contessa Louisa Francesca Banana Fanna Bo Besca the Third

But call me Dottie and I'll kill ya.

[TimtheEnchanter]

But call me Dottie and I'll kill ya.

Always wondered what you'd get if you called her princess. :p

Really at this point it sounds like NCSoft fancies itself the Grinch. Like they don't want money, they don't want positive public relations or customer loyalty (which is a means to money, I guess).

They seem to be taking some sort of satisfaction out of killing something that people loved for no real other reason than, pardon the french, evlulz

I don't think that is true. Mechanical apathy, maybe. Intentional evil? Doubt it.

[HEATSTROKE]

I know that this won't probably get an answer, but from your point of view, would the liabilities at least explain as to why the cost was so high, so that even if the cost was *low* to buy the game, there would be serious problems for the buyer?

bingo

[Lily Barclay]

Don't forget that it's not just about the payout that NCSoft would receive for the sale.

NCSoft, by selling CoX to Disney, is essentially selling the rights to their product to a competitor or potential competitor.  The last thing NCSoft wants right now is a competitor. This is probably whats tied into the provisions in NCSofts contracts to potential buyers....I'm sure they are willing to sell CoX, but they do not want the game to be a threat to their future business.

I think this is the main reason that there has been no deal. Preventing possible future competition.

The fact that NCSoft closed the game due to a "realignment of focus" suggests that they aren't interested in our market anyway, so selling it shouldn't be a threat to their future business.

[Quinch]

Doubly so given how many CoH players have declared an outright boycott of all things NCsoft.

[Kaiser Tarantula]

Don't forget that it's not just about the payout that NCSoft would receive for the sale.

NCSoft, by selling CoX to Disney, is essentially selling the rights to their product to a competitor or potential competitor.  The last thing NCSoft wants right now is a competitor. This is probably whats tied into the provisions in NCSofts contracts to potential buyers....I'm sure they are willing to sell CoX, but they do not want the game to be a threat to their future business.

I think this is the main reason that there has been no deal. Preventing possible future competition.

Keep in mind that, if this were the case, they could turn a 'potential competitor' into a licensor, and make an ongoing profit off them, by licensing the game to be run by someone else, instead of selling it outright.

The fact that they're not willing to do this means that they don't want anyone running CoH, no matter what.

[Segev]

If you re-read VV's post and look up Fansy's that she references, it may have nothing to do with not wanting anybody to run it...and everything to do with needing to wash their hands of it in a very specific way before they can let anybody else run it. Seeing what they do between Dec. 1 and Jan. 1 will be interesting.

[Osborn]

Always wondered what you'd get if you called her princess. :p

I don't think that is true. Mechanical apathy, maybe. Intentional evil? Doubt it.

You're probably right, I guess, but I'd figure the path to easy money and good customer loyalty would be at the, at very least, release a 'private LAN server' release of the game, or put it into maintenance mode.

[Victoria Victrix]

I just want to point out something that has not been touched on.

Worlds, Inc. is a firm that exists only to sue. 

They took out a vaguely worded "patent" (which should properly have been thrown out on the basis of just how vaguely worded it is), somehow got it approved, that basically says "we patent anything that allows a bunch of people to play the same game over the internet together").  Once the patent was approved, without ever writing a single line of code, or creating a game themselves, they proceeded to sue virtually every MMORPG that looked as if it was making a profit, being fully aware that most firms would pay them to go away.

And most firms pay them to go away.  This is how the dispute with NCSoft over CoH was "settled".

I wish I could divulge more about the "legal liabilities" but I can't.  They will, however, die with the game.  Let's concentrate on a revival.

[Zolgar]

Let's face it.
Why Disney?

Because if Disney decided they wanted to, they could walk in and buy NCSoft.
They'd be all
"Hi, we want your company."
"Fock yoo, no! We won't sell to you American pi- .. how many zeroes are on that check?"

[Quinch]

El Reg with an article on it

-highfives a fellow El Reg reader-

[Osborn]

I just want to point out something that has not been touched on.

Worlds, Inc. is a firm that exists only to sue. 

They took out a vaguely worded "patent" (which should properly have been thrown out on the basis of just how vaguely worded it is), somehow got it approved, that basically says "we patent anything that allows a bunch of people to play the same game over the internet together").  Once the patent was approved, without ever writing a single line of code, or creating a game themselves, they proceeded to sue virtually every MMORPG that looked as if it was making a profit, being fully away that most firms would pay them to go away.

And most firms pay them to go away.  This is how the dispute with NCSoft over CoH was "settled".

I wish I could divulge more about the "legal liabilities" but I can't.  They will, however, die with the game.  Let's concentrate on a revival.

It seems pretty terrible they have patented what is basically 'communication', and somehow that holds up.

[epawtows]

Is this worlds.com patent thing the *actual* legal issue that is causing the game closure (at least by rumor), is it being cited as an example of the sort of thing that can happen in the MMO-business world, or what?

[Omega Mark V]

One thing I'd like to state:

Yes, VV's post is correct about why NCSoft didn't sell CoH.

Why?

A company like NCSoft doesn't have 'competition' with a game like CoH, because they don't have apparent interest in it, or it's community. If they wanted to make something out of it, they would have, compared to shutting it down.

I'm confident they'll sell it at some point, we can tell they don't want it. It's just the legal issues that need to die on the 30th. Otherwise the next company that would have bought it would have needed to pay that full price for to cover the problems that NCSoft would face.