Author Topic: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.  (Read 333256 times)

General Idiot

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #420 on: March 03, 2013, 01:40:02 AM »
That's your view, but they could make the argument that you are still bound by it and it'd be much money down the line before either of you proved the other wrong. The hundred thousand I just pulled out of thin air, I don't actually know how much it costs to hire a lawyer other than that it's expensive.

And yes, no one's selling anything in a private server though the argument could be made that it's possible and that's reason enough. But I wasn't talking about a private server when I made that comment, I was referring to the old Marvel suit against CoH.

Blue Pulsar

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #421 on: March 03, 2013, 05:29:54 AM »
No one is selling anything on a reverse-engineered private server. As far as agreeing to a EULA, I for one am not feeling all that much loyalty to a corporation that threw us so far under the bus that a vortex to another dimension opened under the bus, and now we all find ourselves in a universe without our favorite game. I paid for their game for six years, and they decided they didnt want my money anymore. Me and them are quits; I am not bound to a EULA for A GAME THAT NO LONGER EXISTS.

Ya know, I am inclined to disagree with the idea that it would be legal to run a private server with CoH on it, but the way you spin it is quite interesting. I will say that other game companies have had private servers shut down in the same situation. While we are not bound by the EULA any longer, it also has nothing to do with private servers and the exploitation of copyrighted IP. The fact that they are the IP owners of the game we want to play does. They lose a little bit of edge in the fact that they are no longer marketing the game and that a private server would not be a for-profit venture, but it really wouldn't mean much against the fact that the hoster would be bootlegging copyrighted data and information. It's like pirating a copy of Adam Sandler's movie. I mean, he's not making any money off it and won't be any time soon, but it's still illegal to copy and distribute even if no profit is being made.
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Noyjitat

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #422 on: March 03, 2013, 06:02:29 AM »
To hell with this legal bullshit. If your going to worry about that you might as well say goodbye to city of heroes forever. Get a dedicated server in a country where they cant do anything about it and put the server there. We might have high pings but damn, lets not quit now over some legal bs.

My hopes were high to stomp some rikti and run some incarnate trials again but posts like this make me feel the knife is in my back already.

Ironwolf

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #423 on: March 03, 2013, 12:12:20 PM »
Paraguay is notorious for not following the USA's IP laws...........just saying.

houtex

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #424 on: March 03, 2013, 12:58:17 PM »
I would think that Paraguay is notorious for not following *any* USA laws... being as they're not USA.  And many other countries... well, come to think of it, all the other countries do this.

How dare they blatantly not do the exact same things as the USA do.  What do they think they are, soverign entities separate from USA rule? 

Pfft.  Silly countries.


General Idiot

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #425 on: March 03, 2013, 01:06:04 PM »
The point I'm trying to make is it's not definitely legal to run a private server using someone else's IP. However, it's not absolutely clear that it's illegal either. It's in that murky area where it might be ok and might not, and NCSoft being a foreign company only makes it murkier.

nemerle

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #426 on: March 03, 2013, 02:18:53 PM »
In a strange turn of events, today I've found the C&D our initial project received back in 2007, and posted the link to it on segs forums
Other projects might find some interesting tidbits in there


 

dwturducken

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #427 on: March 03, 2013, 03:43:18 PM »
So, by the criteria set forth in that letter, Champions Online technically violates NCSoft's copyright? (Note that the letter says nothing about the "offending game" being any good...)
I wouldn't use the word "replace," but there's no word for "take over for you and make everything better almost immediately," so we just say "replace."

r00tb0ySlim

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #428 on: March 03, 2013, 04:14:03 PM »
This whole private server vs IP ownership legal talk kinda reminds me of the squatters law (worldwide).  You know, the adverse possession/open dominion thingy.  It's probably not relevant since we are not talking about land, but this situation reminds me of it anyway.  They're not using it and we want to make some aspects of it viable.  I just want to play any form of the game and the sooner the better!!

dwturducken

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #429 on: March 03, 2013, 04:40:09 PM »
"Squatters" exist on the Internet, which is why, initially, the majority of the .xxx domains were bought up by legitimate organizations, mostly universities, to prevent porn companies using them.

Now, there is a sliver of a precedent with the SWG private servers, but NCSoft has also set something of a precedent with their own "retired" IPs. I'd have to go back and look, but I believe that was on a game that was not so much retired as no longer available in the western hemisphere.
I wouldn't use the word "replace," but there's no word for "take over for you and make everything better almost immediately," so we just say "replace."

Mysterious J

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #430 on: March 03, 2013, 05:12:57 PM »
This discussion seems to me to be getting kind of confused. IANAL, but...

First, the EULA doesn't apply any more.  Under the EULA, NCSoft's sole legal remedy for violations was kicking you off the service and cancelling your account. That's moot now.

NCSoft still has a copyright in all the source code (moot, because nobody outside of NCSoft has any of it), the compiled client, and all the files that were included with that, most importantly all the art and music assets.  If you redistribute the client, then you could be violating their copyright (could because there are a bunch of steps they'd have to go through in court to demonstrate that it was a violation, and there are some affirmative defenses that could be raised).  Under the DMCA they could get a service provider (in a jurisdiction that's covered) to take down the client files you were sharing, basically just by alleging a violation... but that's not the same as proving a violation and again there are some defenses against that.  Still, they'd be on pretty solid legal footing if they bothered to pursue it.

NCSoft does not have any right to prevent anyone from providing products that are interoperable with their client code, or to prevent reverse engineering their code in order to provide interoperability.  This ranges from things like Vidiot Maps to Sentinel+ to a hypothetical server that would respond to messages from the client as if it were the CoX server engine.  This is pretty much settled case-law, and there's a particular carve-out in the DMCA specifically to permit reverse engineering.  NCSoft forbade it in the EULA (a common tactic to try to skate around  the law permitting reverse engineering is to claim that it's nonetheless forbidden by a contract that the company and the reverse engineer have entered into), but the EULA is now moot.

NCSoft still has a trademark in City of Heroes and various names and images (not all of them, but specific ones that served to identify and promote the brand), but that limits what a hypothetical after-market interoperable server could be called and what images it could use to promote itself so as not to cause confusion in the marketplace over whether it's an official product; it does not actually prevent mentioning the trademark for purposes of comparison (10% less phosphates than Tide) or compatibility (usable with iPhone).  And that assumes that somebody actually tries to market a product that works with the old City of Heroes clients...which seems unlikely.


r00tb0ySlim

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #431 on: March 03, 2013, 05:38:00 PM »
This discussion seems to me to be getting kind of confused. IANAL, but...

First, the EULA doesn't apply any more.  Under the EULA, NCSoft's sole legal remedy for violations was kicking you off the service and cancelling your account. That's moot now.

NCSoft still has a copyright in all the source code (moot, because nobody outside of NCSoft has any of it), the compiled client, and all the files that were included with that, most importantly all the art and music assets.  If you redistribute the client, then you could be violating their copyright (could because there are a bunch of steps they'd have to go through in court to demonstrate that it was a violation, and there are some affirmative defenses that could be raised).  Under the DMCA they could get a service provider (in a jurisdiction that's covered) to take down the client files you were sharing, basically just by alleging a violation... but that's not the same as proving a violation and again there are some defenses against that.  Still, they'd be on pretty solid legal footing if they bothered to pursue it.

NCSoft does not have any right to prevent anyone from providing products that are interoperable with their client code, or to prevent reverse engineering their code in order to provide interoperability.  This ranges from things like Vidiot Maps to Sentinel+ to a hypothetical server that would respond to messages from the client as if it were the CoX server engine.  This is pretty much settled case-law, and there's a particular carve-out in the DMCA specifically to permit reverse engineering.  NCSoft forbade it in the EULA (a common tactic to try to skate around  the law permitting reverse engineering is to claim that it's nonetheless forbidden by a contract that the company and the reverse engineer have entered into), but the EULA is now moot.

NCSoft still has a trademark in City of Heroes and various names and images (not all of them, but specific ones that served to identify and promote the brand), but that limits what a hypothetical after-market interoperable server could be called and what images it could use to promote itself so as not to cause confusion in the marketplace over whether it's an official product; it does not actually prevent mentioning the trademark for purposes of comparison (10% less phosphates than Tide) or compatibility (usable with iPhone).  And that assumes that somebody actually tries to market a product that works with the old City of Heroes clients...which seems unlikely.



I just pissed myself and forgot who I was for 5 minutes, but well said!!  I think this means we can all have that pool party next Saturday night or whenever the PS is humming!!

Illusionss

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #432 on: March 03, 2013, 06:32:05 PM »
To hell with this legal bullshit. If your going to worry about that you might as well say goodbye to city of heroes forever. Get a dedicated server in a country where they cant do anything about it and put the server there. We might have high pings but damn, lets not quit now over some legal bs.

My hopes were high to stomp some rikti and run some incarnate trials again but posts like this make me feel the knife is in my back already.

No knives are in your back, we just have some Nervous Nellies who are worried about obeying a EULA for a game that no longer exists.

This is like saying: "Free party at my place next Saturday, BYOB and let's paaaar-tay!"

Someone else: "But what if someone brings Absolut vodka and Absolut decides to sue, because they did not approve our party first?"

Party host: "How will they know? Absolut headquarters is on another continent, and I didn't invite them anyways."

[I have no idea where Absolut is headquartered, just making a point.]

Meanwhile, keep on keepin' on, many of us wish we could do more to help you. Unfortunately what i DONT know about computers would fill several libraries.  8)

r00tb0ySlim

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #433 on: March 03, 2013, 07:20:54 PM »
No knives are in your back, we just have some Nervous Nellies who are worried about obeying a EULA for a game that no longer exists.

This is like saying: "Free party at my place next Saturday, BYOB and let's paaaar-tay!"

Someone else: "But what if someone brings Absolut vodka and Absolut decides to sue, because they did not approve our party first?"

Party host: "How will they know? Absolut headquarters is on another continent, and I didn't invite them anyways."

[I have no idea where Absolut is headquartered, just making a point.]

Meanwhile, keep on keepin' on, many of us wish we could do more to help you. Unfortunately what i DONT know about computers would fill several libraries.  8)

I do like the party reference here.  I am more of a Mad Dog 20/20 Nellie though :o....without the nervousness

Absolute

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #434 on: March 05, 2013, 11:44:15 PM »
SEGS just posted that the default map was changed from Outbreak --> Atlas Park. Pressing F2 also allows you to fly around without any collision comfortably. Changing the in-game gamma fixes the darkness problem as well.

He might have forgot to turn the server back on. I can't access it at the moment, but it'll be fun once I can.

Flying around one of the original Atlases will be nice.

shadeovblack

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #435 on: March 06, 2013, 12:22:34 AM »
I really wish I knew something about programming so I could help out >.<

I guess it's never to late to start learning...

Does anyone know what language/program they use?

Harpospoke

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #436 on: March 06, 2013, 09:26:46 AM »
Flying around one of the original Atlases will be nice.
Oh man...that sounds so cool to me right now.... :(

Golden Ace

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #437 on: March 06, 2013, 01:55:10 PM »
Oh man...that sounds so cool to me right now.... :(

it does

downix

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #438 on: March 06, 2013, 03:32:01 PM »
F2 isn't doing anything for me.

nemerle

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Re: OK, what now? I need a private server or the ability to run my own.
« Reply #439 on: March 06, 2013, 03:36:07 PM »
Enter options, go to keyboard settings, choose 'Dev' from dropdown, apply.
'F2' should do it's job now.