Author Topic: 2nd Man of Steel Trailer is up  (Read 6676 times)

FatherXmas

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,646
  • You think the holidays are bad for you ...
2nd Man of Steel Trailer is up
« on: December 11, 2012, 09:36:31 PM »
Man of Steel

Now with more Superman.
Tempus unum hominem manet

Twitter - AtomicSamuraiRobot@NukeSamuraiBot

Kaos Arcanna

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,067
Re: 2nd Man of Steel Trailer is up
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2012, 10:45:39 PM »
That looked good. Though do we really need yet ANOTHER origin movie?

houtex

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 933
  • I was the turkey all along! MEE!
Re: 2nd Man of Steel Trailer is up
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2012, 02:32:21 AM »
You do if it sets up the character in a completely different way than the previous franchise.  It's called the reboot for a reason.  I mean the part where Clark goes "What should I do, let them die?" and Jonathon says "Maybe."

Yeah.  Way different thought process.  I can't wait to see how that pans out, and am definitely ready for this.  Hurry up, Supes.

mikoroshi

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 236
  • Author, Owner of Dogs
    • My Twitter
Re: 2nd Man of Steel Trailer is up
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2012, 02:39:08 AM »
Awesome.  Amazing cast.
If you see me posting here, you need to tell me to stop it and get back to writing.

TimtheEnchanter

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,466
  • There are some who call me... Tim?
Re: 2nd Man of Steel Trailer is up
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2012, 03:01:24 AM »
What's with the UFO?

Also, looks like Supe is gonna get the kind of treatment that an all-powerful alien would actually get from our nation in its current state.

FatherXmas

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,646
  • You think the holidays are bad for you ...
Re: 2nd Man of Steel Trailer is up
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2012, 05:45:37 AM »
I would guess Zod.
Tempus unum hominem manet

Twitter - AtomicSamuraiRobot@NukeSamuraiBot

Portland Underground

  • Underling
  • *
  • Posts: 15
  • Qui Docet Discit
Re: 2nd Man of Steel Trailer is up
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2012, 01:28:26 PM »
Very excited by this vision of the story.  I feel that the origin story is needed to finally take the movie version past the Donner legacy.  From this taste, I think we are getting that.  Looks promising!

Tenzhi

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,615
    • My DeviantArt Page
Re: 2nd Man of Steel Trailer is up
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2012, 05:00:28 AM »
I don't love the costume, and I'm not thrilled about rehashing the origin again, but it looks like it could be decent.
When you insult someone by calling them a "pig" or a "dog" you aren't maligning pigs and dogs everywhere.  The same is true of any term used as an insult.

8 Ball

  • Underling
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: 2nd Man of Steel Trailer is up
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2012, 09:41:36 PM »
Looks watchable and maybe even good, just keep Lex Luthor the hell out of it, there hasn't been a good version of him in any of the movies yet.

Hyperstrike

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 477
  • SaveCoH!
    • So Super It Hurts
Re: 2nd Man of Steel Trailer is up
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2012, 11:20:45 PM »
I don't love the costume, and I'm not thrilled about rehashing the origin again, but it looks like it could be decent.

Again?

The last time a SM movie went over the origin story, it was 1978.

I figure 34 years is a decent amount to wait on a reboot.

Cobra Man

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 154
Re: 2nd Man of Steel Trailer is up
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2012, 03:50:35 AM »
Again?

The last time a SM movie went over the origin story, it was 1978.

I figure 34 years is a decent amount to wait on a reboot.

+1

I'm a lot happier with the fact that Clark isn't going to be growing up in Smallville.

I'm a long term Supes fan and progression character is very welcome indeed.

Tenzhi

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,615
    • My DeviantArt Page
Re: 2nd Man of Steel Trailer is up
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2012, 04:51:53 AM »
Again?

The last time a SM movie went over the origin story, it was 1978.

Seems like only yestreday...

The article I was looking for was "an" not "the".  I'm just generally sick of revisiting these origins every time a studio thinks they might be able to squeak out a new series of films.  It'd be alright if they didn't have a tendency to dwell overlong on them.
When you insult someone by calling them a "pig" or a "dog" you aren't maligning pigs and dogs everywhere.  The same is true of any term used as an insult.

Hyperstrike

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 477
  • SaveCoH!
    • So Super It Hurts
Re: 2nd Man of Steel Trailer is up
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2012, 04:20:10 PM »
Seems like only yestreday...

The article I was looking for was "an" not "the".  I'm just generally sick of revisiting these origins every time a studio thinks they might be able to squeak out a new series of films.  It'd be alright if they didn't have a tendency to dwell overlong on them.

The problem is, the origin story tends to set the tone for the rest of the series.  Starting in media res doesn't always work so well for that.  Granted, just about everyone on the fricking planet knows who Superman is nowadays.  So cheating it a bit by telling portions in flashback could work.  But, my original point stands.

TimtheEnchanter

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,466
  • There are some who call me... Tim?
Re: 2nd Man of Steel Trailer is up
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2012, 11:47:06 PM »
Seems like only yestreday...

The article I was looking for was "an" not "the".  I'm just generally sick of revisiting these origins every time a studio thinks they might be able to squeak out a new series of films.  It'd be alright if they didn't have a tendency to dwell overlong on them.

And considering how things go these days, we should expect the next Superman reboot in... 2016?

Hyperstrike

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 477
  • SaveCoH!
    • So Super It Hurts
Re: 2nd Man of Steel Trailer is up
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2012, 07:20:35 AM »
And considering how things go these days, we should expect the next Superman reboot in... 2016?

Depends.  If the new one does well, expect 1-2 sequels.  That'll mean about 5-6 years.  Then there'll be a another 5-7 year lay-off (at least, Superman between runs, tends to languish in development hell a lot) and then a reboot.

So, 10-13 years?

Kistulot

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 540
  • Argentum Weritas Est!
Re: 2nd Man of Steel Trailer is up
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2012, 07:11:33 PM »
I'll throw in another vote for the "origin stories are boring" crowd.

Here's the thing. The world knows Superman. Origins can be interesting, but they are usually bogged down with things that holywood has shown it is not good at. Throw in that this movie is taking the fun darker approach to super heroes (because we don't get enough of that... please DC, look at Marvel, see why we like their movies, but don't try ripping off their comics) and I'm really unimpressed so far.

Also... Zod again? Superman has so many more interesting villains!

Sigh. I've enjoyed some of the DC Batman flicks, but it looks like I won't get to ever enjoy a edit: modern (some of the Reeves ones were great after all. Wall fixing eye lasers!) Superman movie.
Woo! - Argent Girl

FatherXmas

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,646
  • You think the holidays are bad for you ...
Re: 2nd Man of Steel Trailer is up
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2012, 08:05:22 PM »
An origin story can be interesting if there's a new take on it.  Batman Begins had one.

As for the limited choice in villains.  Well the public at large aren't generally well versed in comic book villains.  Superman it's Lex Luthor and Zod.  Batman has the big four people remember from the 60s version, Joker, Ridler, Penguin and Catwoman.  When you are pouring money into a movie you fall back on formula that you know worked once before in the past.  Recognizable supporting cast, established villain and SOP origin plot.  I think the notion of how a "strange visitor from another planet with powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men" would be seen as the world's greatest threat is a notion I welcome.
Tempus unum hominem manet

Twitter - AtomicSamuraiRobot@NukeSamuraiBot

Kistulot

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 540
  • Argentum Weritas Est!
Re: 2nd Man of Steel Trailer is up
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2012, 08:21:00 PM »
An origin story can be interesting if there's a new take on it.  Batman Begins had one.

It was interesting for sure. I won't deny that. I don't necessarily like all of those aspects but that's taste. It's also not as fun to rewatch due to the sheer amount of exposition, and the way it's handled, but part of that is also just Nolan's Batman style.

As for the limited choice in villains.  Well the public at large aren't generally well versed in comic book villains.  Superman it's Lex Luthor and Zod.  Batman has the big four people remember from the 60s version, Joker, Ridler, Penguin and Catwoman.  When you are pouring money into a movie you fall back on formula that you know worked once before in the past.  Recognizable supporting cast, established villain and SOP origin plot.

Ah-ha! I get to use your own ideas against you! (Playfully, mind you. Not an argument, more a discussion.) When Nolan rebooted Batman, he didn't go after The Joker. Why? Jack Nicholson already was The Joker. Ceaser Romero was already The Joker. It would have been dull. While we've only gotten one Zod before outside of cartoons, its been around long enough and seen by people enough that it's boring and Cliche.

Nolan grabbed up Al'Ghul because it was more interesting. Do I like the way he changed him? Not really. The removal of his supernatural elements (which could have been played up as science, or something) felt weak, and overall he didn't really feel like the character I remembered. David Warner should also have been given the role, but that's just me.

While throwing another Kryptonian fixes my main issue with Returns (give him a villain thats a match for him, ugh! Don't have superman in a movie and not make use of him!) it just feels... boring.

I'd be happier with Nuclear Man :p

I think the notion of how a "strange visitor from another planet with powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men" would be seen as the world's greatest threat is a notion I welcome.

I probably wouldn't be so put off by this if it wasn't the most annoying modern cliche by now. Sure in older stories we might have seen more instances of dumb open arms to things like Superman, but the grimdark "anything we don't understand, we fear!" is getting really old to me. Superhero stories, especially with four color heroes, work best when you let them BE heroes, not constantly at odds with a fearing populace.

If they do it the way Marvel did it in Iron Man 2, with the scrutiny on Stark being a developing piece and not the central focus, it could work, but this does not seem like that kind of movie. It screams gritty modern storytelling in every way I've grown to hate it.
Woo! - Argent Girl

TimtheEnchanter

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,466
  • There are some who call me... Tim?
Re: 2nd Man of Steel Trailer is up
« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2012, 03:33:19 AM »
A rant on another gaming forum that I went on back when this project first got announced:

Personally, I got a lot of enjoyment out of Superman Returns. As someone who grew up with the Christopher Reeves films, it was exactly what I would've expected out of a Superman film. It captured the look and feel of those movies, right down to the "3-D" 'flying at your face' opening credits. But I have a feeling it would've taken more than just a different directing style to put Superman at the top of the box office. I always hear nothing but whines about Superman, and this is long before SR came out. It's not much of a stretch to say that "Nobody likes Superman." And IMO it's for a simple reason... society sucks. Now before anyone slaps a fanboy label on me, let me clarify that. I'm saying "Nobody likes Superman because society sucks", not "Society sucks because nobody likes Superman."

First of all, a great deal of Superman was obviously taken from old mythology, more specifically, half-human/half-God characters like Hercules (or in Supe's case, half-alien). Such characters were, no big shock, VERY powerful. Having one parent who was a deity will give you that kind of immortality. This also brings with it a form of jealousy that you typically won't see with other more 'human' superheroes. It's already been said once or twice in this thread. "He's too powerful!" This is even touched upon in Superman Returns, when Lex Luthor says "Gods are selfish beings who fly around in little red capes and don't share their power." Obviously, having Superman beat to within an inch of death and hospitalized on full life support wasn't enough to supress the audience's hatred of his powers.

Jealousy is far too petty of a reason for all the 'hate mail' Superman recieves though. For a great deal of storytelling history, superheroes were people that society could look up to, and aspire to be more like. Even if we couldn't achieve the same great power of the superheroes, we could still follow their example, and do what is within our capabilities. The problem here (and this is where the hatred of Superman really comes from) is we no longer want that. To aspire to be like a Superhero forces us to look into ourselves and see how we can improve. Superman makes us look bad... really bad. He has enough power to bring humanity to its knees without even breaking a sweat, yet he treats us with all the gentle handling and etiquette of a boyscout helping an old lady across the street, regardless of how stressed out he might be. Of course nobody in modern society likes that. We'd much rather have Michael Douglas in "Falling Down." We want a hero who would do exactly what we would do. We want our idols to tell us that we don't need to improve. Apparently turning Superman into a deadbeat father who fornicates with Lois Lane just before abandoning Earth for a few years wasn't enough to change anyone's opinion of his 'pansy-assed personality' or his 'flawless moral code.' Maybe if he'd beat the living pancake out of Lex Luthor in a police interrogation room the way Batman did to the Joker, people would be more accepting of him. In fact, I'd bet my money on it. Superman simply isn't made of the stuff that an impulse-based society can relate to. The same goes for his main character flaw: lonliness. In a reality where we will do anything, ANYTHING to fit in and be accepted, how can we possibly relate to an orphaned alien living on a foreign world who won't abandon his concept of good & evil no matter what? Quite obviously, we can't.

Perhaps it really would be better if the franchise were just abandoned instead of relaunching whatever "as dark as the characters will allow" version of Superman they have in mind. Who will be deciding how dark the characters will allow? If it's audience surveys or the producers (who again, will do anything, ANYTHING, to appeal to the general population), all we'll get out of this reboot is a sick perversion. Better to bring on Doomsday with the present incarnation and bury him, never to grace the silver screen again. Superman would rather die than lose his identity just to be fashionable. But that's what Superman would do. That's not what we would do.


In short, most of what makes Superman interesting isn't his power, but his inner struggles. And nobody wants to go to a blockbuster film to see a superhero meditating on emptiness in his ice castle. They want to see him smash, smash some more, smash some more stuff, give us a moral lesson that takes less than 1 minute of screen-time to deliver, and then get back to the smashing.

Kistulot

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 540
  • Argentum Weritas Est!
Re: 2nd Man of Steel Trailer is up
« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2012, 04:50:04 AM »
Prefacing this: I hold strong opinions, but completely respect your right to have ones that contrast, refute, or agree with my own. This post is merely to illuminate my own thoughts on the matter in counter point. I wouldn't bother typing them out if I didnt think you'd explained how you felt well in a way that made me wish to do the same :)

Superman Returns was weak to me because Superman didn't have a real foe, and didn't feel utilized or properly challenged.

Every problem that was thrown at him was not solved because he was too powerful (besides one - I'll get back to that) but because they were not superman level threats. Yet at the same time, his one weakness is thrown at him, in a continental scale, and he still shrugs it off. This felt like amazingly weak, poor storytelling.

Maybe with Christopher Reeves you could just have a man with super powers and make it interesting, maybe the believing a man could fly story was interesting enough back then, and the movie isn't bad... but it isn't particularly good, either.

Superman can have emotional crisies. Clark Kent can have emotional crisies. The problem is, you need to give a conflict where I feel like the character has a chance to lose. You cant shove Anti Superman at him and have it be that easy for him to overcome. You can't go through a whole movie with nothing that truly challenges his above human limits, or makes his strength a weakness.  There are a thousand ways you could tell a good superman movie. It just doesn't feel like Hollywood wants to do that - in a way I agree with.

Superman: The Animated Series did a great job of giving us an emotional connection to Clark, and someone to root for in a fight in Superman. He has an innate duality that lets him have two stories at once, and have them be at odds with eachother. I know Superman II explored this theme but... shamefully, I've actually never sat through the whole thing. Not out of a dislike for it? It just hasn't happened. Perhaps I should watch it and then come back here and post again.

But there were challenges to Superman in that series. You don't need to throw Darkseid at him (such as they did in the finale) to make things threats. You don't need to give him a son with Asthma to give him a drama piece. Superman abandoning the planet? He's not that weak, not the well written Superman that I know and love. See, that's the thing. I'm a person who will strongly fight for Clark and Supes being good, incredibly versatile characters... when the writing is there.

As Clark, he has possible emotional conflicts with the family that died and sent him to safety, and the planet that adopted him. The Kents are his parents, and have given their son a good life, but does he long for his biological family? Does he feel shame for wanting more than the kents gave him? Does he want more, but is still happy being a Kent? These are all great themes to explore! Its amazing! And as Superman, when he fights threats capable of destroying planets, subjugating entire races, etc, how does he stand by no deadly force without being dumb? What will make him cross the line? What stops him from going too far? What happens when he needs to push himself to his limits after holding himself back from killing robbers with a flick of his finger for so long?

I don't think that nobody likes Superman. i think implying that we don't like a strong personification of an ideal is humorous at best, and offensive at worst. Perhaps an oversimplification. We still tell many of the same stories as those old mythologies - if not the same stories with a new coat of paint. Superman being a deadbeat dad who knocks Lois Lane up and then leaves had no chance to make him anything but emotionally weak. He shared an intimate connection with Lois, and then abandoned her.

Superman as the demigod boyscout is a character that I like. A lot. I don't think that I'm a rarity in this. I just think most people don't get to see him written well, used properly, pushed to his limits.

Dark Superman is a contradiction in terms. Superman is a hopeful character, even when times get dark. That's what he should be. That's what he's good at. I resent a dark, gritty superman feared by society because all it does is perpetuate the White Wolf like belief that gritty or dark is realistic. There is darkness in the world, but there's hope, and light, too. And I'm really getting sick of storytelling loving to show us how people can't trust people anymore, or how everything bad has changed the way the world works.

Throwing the military into stories where they don't belong is also reeeeally getting old. I didn't like it in Transformers. I don't like it in these trailers. Maybe its not very modern to just ignore that sort of thing, but as far as I'm concerned such things are big red flags for "this is a serious modern movie!" which usually tends to mean "you should probably skip this one."

You make points that you support very well, but I come to very different conclusions from my own bits of information :) I think that believing only Clark Kent or Superman is interesting means you may as well either watch a story about a news reporter, or a movie about a guy who fights things a lot. Both are really amazing, and can be weaved together. But that's just me, and I know that's hard to write... but its possible.
Woo! - Argent Girl