Author Topic: So... Alerts...  (Read 8338 times)

Tenzhi

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,677
    • My DeviantArt Page
So... Alerts...
« on: January 07, 2013, 10:04:28 PM »
Been tentatively doing a few of them lately.  Seems like if they go well it's really good, fast XP...  but they can go very, very badly...
When you insult someone by calling them a "pig" or a "dog" you aren't maligning pigs and dogs everywhere.  The same is true of any term used as an insult.

JaguarX

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,393
Re: So... Alerts...
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2013, 10:09:52 PM »
yep.

my success rate currently with alerts overall is 50%, which according to comments in game is very good.

Sometimes you get people that join then quit when the alert starts, or some people that cant stay alive for more than 10 seconds, and sometimes just cant do enough damage overall in 2 minutes, and sometimes it just wasnt meant to be. 

But yeah when they do go well it's good stuff.

Thunder Glove

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 992
Re: So... Alerts...
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2013, 12:49:23 AM »
I find Soul Siphon the easiest Smash alerts to do.  It just seems like there's more time.  (Trainspotting definitely has a longer time limit, but it also has a harsher Defeat All requirement for victory, compared to most requiring you to just beat the main villain)

Of course, Grab and Burst Alerts have no time limit at all, but they also have no Experience bonus at the end.

Epelesker

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 128
  • One fix at a time!
Re: So... Alerts...
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2013, 01:41:42 AM »
The thing with Alerts in general, though it's more prevalent in timed Smashes, is that some people tend to attach a misguided stigma to anyone under Lv20 (or so) in a PUG. People also sometimes leave if not enough DPS is being done in the opening seconds, or if there's too much knockback.
It really comes down to impatience on other players behalves.


Soul Siphon isn't based on time (the same as Recruiting Drive) but it's easier to complete because you start with only the boss as a target in an SS.

Thunder Glove

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 992
Re: So... Alerts...
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2013, 03:33:14 AM »
Soul Siphon doesn't seem to have a way to change the rate that citizens are drained (unless I missed something), so it's still a timer, just with a "0/16 Citizens Drained" indicator rather than a straightforward "2 minutes".

Epelesker

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 128
  • One fix at a time!
Re: So... Alerts...
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2013, 06:32:55 AM »
Soul Siphon doesn't seem to have a way to change the rate that citizens are drained (unless I missed something), so it's still a timer, just with a "0/16 Citizens Drained" indicator rather than a straightforward "2 minutes".
I think there's a penalty of an extra drained citizen whenever an Alert member is defeated.

Tenzhi

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,677
    • My DeviantArt Page
Re: So... Alerts...
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2013, 09:22:57 AM »
In any case, the ones I've been doing seem to give between 2 and 3 times the amount of most of the mission rewards I get and in the span of a couple of minutes.  It seems...  efficient.
When you insult someone by calling them a "pig" or a "dog" you aren't maligning pigs and dogs everywhere.  The same is true of any term used as an insult.

AlphaFerret

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 127
Re: So... Alerts...
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2013, 11:01:56 PM »
A friend and I were running alerts last night on our lowbie toons.  The Harmon Labs mish failed about 6 times in a row.  I thought i was playing wow with the amount of toons that drop out alerts within the first 45 seconds.  We knew we were holding the teams back a bit, but we never encountered such a lack of perseverance in coh.  We once ran an ITF that took over 5 hours.  Three heroes dropped before Rommy, but we stuck with it and pulled it out.  Good times.

Kaiser Tarantula

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 580
  • @Nerva
Re: So... Alerts...
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2013, 06:13:14 AM »
Lemme clear up a few misconceptions about the Smash alerts.  I haven't played in a couple weeks, so here are the ones I can remember offhand.

Dockside Dustup: This is a straight-up brawl.  There's 2-3 hench/villain packs and the boss, and you need to defeat them all.  You've got a 2-minute time limit, so you have to work fast.

Trainstopping: Another straight-up brawl.  This time there's a 3-minute limit, but there's also about 4-5 packs of enemies beside the boss, and there's more enemies in each pack.  The arena is larger, forcing the group to clear their way up to the boss before taking him on.  All enemies must be beaten.

Recruitment Drive: Similar to Dockside Dustup, but has a time limit measured in civilians recruited.  If nobody dies, it takes about 5 minutes, but each hero defeated will cut about 15-20 seconds off the timer.  There are lots of henchmen and villains, but only the boss needs to be beaten - lure him away from his lackeys to make it easier on yourself.

Soul Siphon: This one is similar to Recruitment Drive, with about the same time limit.  There are no other enemies aside from the boss... at first.  Each drained civilian, however, produces a Mind Worm that will proceed to attack the boss's primary target.  Unless the boss is defeated quickly, the mind worm spawns will eventually overwhelm the tank.  Defeated heroes don't increase the rate of draining, but they do increase the number of Mind Worm spawns.  Only the boss needs to be beaten.

General Idiot

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 648
Re: So... Alerts...
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2013, 11:45:56 AM »
As far as I know, the worms in the soul siphon alert have their own targets. I'm fairly certain on that, since playing support tends to attract all of them pretty quickly even when there's a tank present.

Tenzhi

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,677
    • My DeviantArt Page
Re: So... Alerts...
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2013, 01:09:19 PM »
I found it best with a ranged character to fight from far enough outside the "ring" that I was out of range of the worms.
When you insult someone by calling them a "pig" or a "dog" you aren't maligning pigs and dogs everywhere.  The same is true of any term used as an insult.

Kaiser Tarantula

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 580
  • @Nerva
Re: So... Alerts...
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2013, 09:26:27 AM »
As far as I know, the worms in the soul siphon alert have their own targets. I'm fairly certain on that, since playing support tends to attract all of them pretty quickly even when there's a tank present.
This is just the aggro mechanics at work.  When the worms spawn, they share the same aggro table as the boss itself, and will attack the boss's primary target.  Of course, since nobody is aggressively tanking them, that quickly changes, and they tend to go after either a healer or DPS within their range.

General Idiot

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 648
Re: So... Alerts...
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2013, 02:20:41 PM »
I'd point out there's usually no one tanking the boss either, aggressively or otherwise. :p

Kaiser Tarantula

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 580
  • @Nerva
Re: So... Alerts...
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2013, 03:51:54 PM »
Unless the entire alert team is running around with all their powers off, traipsing among the civilians as they're drained, not firing off a single attack, and not aggroing the boss, then someone is dealing damage, necessarily to the boss, since Soul Siphon begins with the boss as the only enemy on the field.  Just moving within the boss's aggro range will generate some hate and put whoever does it on the top of the boss's aggro table.

By "aggressively tanking the worms" I mean someone going out and purposefully rounding up their attention with attacks, ensuring that they shoot at the offtank and not the main.  Naturally, if your people are standing around with their thumbs tucked in their anuses, or attacking the boss and dying like flies, then aggro's going to be all over the place if anyone tries to do anything (and your alert was over before it began).

When a worm spawns, it goes like this:

A). Who's the boss's target?   (Captain Tankerton)
B). Is that person in range? (Yes.)
C). Is that person a valid target? (Yes.)
D). Attack.  (Attack Captain Tankerton)
E). Standard aggro rules from here: they have their own hatelist, which starts as a copy of the boss's but then changes based on their own aggro generation or lack thereof.

Now, given that the mindworms are both ranged and immobile, there comes a few alternate situations that can crop up.

A). Who's the boss's target? (Captain Tankerton)
B). Is that person in range? (NO)
C). Are there any other players in range? (Yes - Healy Nicegal and Bloody Swordsman)
D). Which of those is higher on the boss's hatelist? (Healy Nicegal)
E). Attack (Healy Nicegal)
F). Standard aggro rules from here.  They now have their own hatelist, which starts as a copy of the boss's but quickly changes based on their own aggro generation rules.

In this case, the healer gets shot right off the bat because the tank is out of range and the healer is next on the hatelist.  Then there's this situation.

A). Who's the boss's target? (Captain Tankerton)
B). Is that person in range?  (NO)
C). Are there any players in range?  (NO)
D). Screw it - stand around immobile, waving around in the air.  If anyone approaches, aggro based on your own hatelist.

This occurs if nobody's in range of the worms.  Since they can't move to get into range, they just sit there and be the docile little annelid turrets they are.  If anyone DOES wander into range, they immediately start taking potshots at the new target.

Since the spawn zone is far outside the range of any worm (they simply don't spawn out that far), then the only way to get shot by a worm when the boss isn't aggroed is to scrupulously avoid drawing aggro from the boss while you're walking around the central forum.  Given that the boss wouldn't have a hatelist, the worms spawn and immediately go to their own hatelists, which basically says "shoot the nearest sorry chump in range until aggro generation says otherwise."

UruzSix

  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 72
Re: So... Alerts...
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2013, 05:48:33 PM »
I'd point out there's usually no one tanking the boss either, aggressively or otherwise. :p

You need me on more of your alerts. ;)

crayehal

  • Minion
  • **
  • Posts: 41
Re: So... Alerts...
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2013, 08:55:08 AM »
Sometimes you get people that join then quit when the alert starts, or some people that cant stay alive for more than 10 seconds

I'm in a SG where Alerts are used to PL lowbies.  Basically a lv 40 leads the team, queues for the alert and wipes out the mob.  In the case of Recruitment drive, the lv 40 can defeat the boss in 30-45 secs.  If the team is less than 5 players, then the game picks random players in the queue.  It is likely that those who quit check the levels of the team, and if there aren't enough hi levels, they quit and hope to get PL'd in another alert.

JaguarX

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,393
Re: So... Alerts...
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2013, 10:04:53 AM »
I'm in a SG where Alerts are used to PL lowbies.  Basically a lv 40 leads the team, queues for the alert and wipes out the mob.  In the case of Recruitment drive, the lv 40 can defeat the boss in 30-45 secs.  If the team is less than 5 players, then the game picks random players in the queue.  It is likely that those who quit check the levels of the team, and if there aren't enough hi levels, they quit and hope to get PL'd in another alert.

could be. except the ones that are usually left were all level 40s. Lowest level I seen during one of those incidents were a level 38. Didnt catch the levels of those that quit. They kind of scattered pretty swiftly.

They might have been looking for pure PL and more than likely our teams was not set up for PLing people. Just trying to get the job done given that the team was mostly 40s or near.

blackjak

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 517
Re: So... Alerts...
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2013, 03:24:25 PM »
I find alerts to be pure chaos. Nothing but a struggle to make it to the boss as fasy as possible and start the wail fest. That said, if I  join I  stay til the end even though I am a lowbie. I treat them as less fun sewer runs. :-\
Virtue: Moonsun, Dynamo Jr., Crimson Fury, Sabre Kat, Double Sixxes, Quantum Stranger, Mystic Kirin, Pink.Eye Champion: Blackjak, Redwing Blackbird Justice: Shield Marshal Guardian: White Talon Triumph: Gosuto Union: Stellar Girl

JaguarX

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,393
Re: So... Alerts...
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2013, 06:27:32 PM »
I find alerts to be pure chaos. Nothing but a struggle to make it to the boss as fasy as possible and start the wail fest. That said, if I  join I  stay til the end even though I am a lowbie. I treat them as less fun sewer runs. :-\

Kind of sound like COX missions/trials team speed run that became so common.

blackjak

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 517
Re: So... Alerts...
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2013, 12:56:35 AM »
If they were longer, had any sort of individuality, didn't lag me badly at times and people spoke to each other maybe... :roll:
Virtue: Moonsun, Dynamo Jr., Crimson Fury, Sabre Kat, Double Sixxes, Quantum Stranger, Mystic Kirin, Pink.Eye Champion: Blackjak, Redwing Blackbird Justice: Shield Marshal Guardian: White Talon Triumph: Gosuto Union: Stellar Girl

JaguarX

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,393
Re: So... Alerts...
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2013, 04:13:58 AM »
If they were longer, had any sort of individuality, didn't lag me badly at times and people spoke to each other maybe... :roll:

have you tried striking up a convo? I noticed the lack of convo myself but it seems no one bothered to try to strike up one. It's like throwing a party. Everyone want to enter when the party is under way but no one wants to start it off.

Tenzhi

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,677
    • My DeviantArt Page
Re: So... Alerts...
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2013, 04:41:27 AM »
No time for a conversation.  You have a short time to beat the mission - during which it's pretty much solid activity - and afterwards you don't have much more than a minute before it boots you out.  The few times I noticed that someone said something in Local I didn't have time to switch to Local and respond.
When you insult someone by calling them a "pig" or a "dog" you aren't maligning pigs and dogs everywhere.  The same is true of any term used as an insult.

JaguarX

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,393
Re: So... Alerts...
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2013, 05:21:25 AM »
No time for a conversation.  You have a short time to beat the mission - during which it's pretty much solid activity - and afterwards you don't have much more than a minute before it boots you out.  The few times I noticed that someone said something in Local I didn't have time to switch to Local and respond.
true that for the 2 minute beat downs as 2 minutes is not alot of time at all. but I dont recall the "stop the enemy from robbing bank" or the "save the mayor" ones having time limit thus, plenty of time to chat too?

Tenzhi

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,677
    • My DeviantArt Page
Re: So... Alerts...
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2013, 06:19:47 AM »
true that for the 2 minute beat downs as 2 minutes is not alot of time at all. but I dont recall the "stop the enemy from robbing bank" or the "save the mayor" ones having time limit thus, plenty of time to chat too?

I haven't done any of those yet because if it doesn't say "XP" on it in big bold letters, it doesn't exist. ;)

Actually, because of the failure rate I've encountered in the simple smashes.  The brief descriptions of the other Alerts I've clicked on sounded like they had goals that were potentially more annoying and/or prone to failure.
When you insult someone by calling them a "pig" or a "dog" you aren't maligning pigs and dogs everywhere.  The same is true of any term used as an insult.

JaguarX

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,393
Re: So... Alerts...
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2013, 06:49:30 AM »
I haven't done any of those yet because if it doesn't say "XP" on it in big bold letters, it doesn't exist. ;)

Actually, because of the failure rate I've encountered in the simple smashes.  The brief descriptions of the other Alerts I've clicked on sounded like they had goals that were potentially more annoying and/or prone to failure.

Hm. The smashes are the harder ones. Well that Gravitar one is a challenge but the rest is dead simple, the ones that usually dont say Xp. But yeah many people dont bother unless it says XP, but they make ya work for that xp. The resource ones are usually easy and any rag tag can do it, even a bunch of low levels. I'm not even sure if the other alerts outside the xp ones can be failed even if the team keeps dying. Or rather, never found a way to fail those actually.

For anyone just starting off, I would implore them to start with the non-timed alerts to get the hang of things first before moving on to the quick smashes but the downside, not good xp like the smashes.

General Idiot

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 648
Re: So... Alerts...
« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2013, 07:00:28 AM »
Yeah, amusingly if you don't count custom alerts the 'simple' smashes are actually the only ones you can outright fail. Grabs and bursts have no failure condition at all, if you can kill the enemies even if it takes you a million years to do it you'll succeed - eventually.

crayehal

  • Minion
  • **
  • Posts: 41
Re: So... Alerts...
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2013, 05:24:09 AM »
have you tried striking up a convo?
Voicechat is available.  Folks might be using that.  I've tried forming teams before.  Prior to f2p, CO players aren't that chatty.

blackjak

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 517
Re: So... Alerts...
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2013, 05:39:34 AM »
Someone did set off a "party bomb " in powerhouse. Closest thing to COH I 've seen so far. :)
I think the alerts are too frenetic to get anything going. Nothing like missions in COH. Even radio missions could be RP'ed and done at your own pace.
Virtue: Moonsun, Dynamo Jr., Crimson Fury, Sabre Kat, Double Sixxes, Quantum Stranger, Mystic Kirin, Pink.Eye Champion: Blackjak, Redwing Blackbird Justice: Shield Marshal Guardian: White Talon Triumph: Gosuto Union: Stellar Girl

JaguarX

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,393
Re: So... Alerts...
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2013, 06:18:35 AM »
Voicechat is available.  Folks might be using that.  I've tried forming teams before.  Prior to f2p, CO players aren't that chatty.

yeah I heard about many people using that voice chat.

But yeah CO seems to be more of an "on ya own" type game. Which is what really really appeals to me. I dont go too far beyond the COX channel and that is all the "socialization" I need in a game. Beyond that, I rather solo, not deal with a bunch of different versions of "fun", and go at my own pace and not have to worry about some overzealous team mate that is always in a rush, and speed runs is no longer a problem. When I feel chatty, I use the channel. Beyond that, I enjoy going at my own pace, my own version of fun, and taking my time defeating things instead of map touring and trying to super speed run around the enemy when really I should be smashing them.

I might occassionally do an alert, but usually have chat window closed and focused on getting the job done and going about my way.

These are the reasons I think CO fits me way better than COX. I loved COX but it was too "social" for my taste. Now only if they came with a PC game that was standalone that had the features of CO and or COX (especially the character creation portion), I wouldnt bother with MMOs. But as it stands, the social part is a mere side effect of enjoying the rest of what I like and of course I probably will seek to minimize it. Thus if another creative (meaning no interest in playing Spiderman, Hulk, Wolverine or even interacting with them) hero game comes about and it's even more solo centric than even CO, I'd jump ship in a heart beat.