Author Topic: Community-Built COH Style MMORPG  (Read 127017 times)

Aviticus Gladius

  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 67
Re: Community-Built COH Style MMORPG
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2013, 11:07:49 PM »
@Rotten Luck, I'm actually working on a proposal for both teams that will offer members an opportunity to pool their resources under our company's umbrella. As I said, Gorgon technology has been establish and is limited (contractually) to our game network. Joining a team and trying to work on the framework at this point is completely counter-intuitive for me, seeing as our current technology and client-side content build has over 4+ years of code within it. This code will be made fully available to the team behind the project. The package comes with various tools that allow for the simple dragging and dropping of NPCs, writer tools that let creators type and click to add dialogue and quests to NPCs, there are also tools for things such as loot and item generation; the full MMORPG development suite is under our roof. The reason its designers want to keep things confined is because they are developing a lot of content for the system and don't feel it's ready for open licensing at the moment. Our company's programmers are now working on the software as well, adding multiple features for things such as facial animations, animated voice-overs technology, deep guild/grouping features, and a much more complex skill/leveling system than is currently there. So as you can see, we are able to easily produce a fully playable MMORPG with out technology. At the moment, we need support from artists, writers, and the community more than anything else. I noticed that you said you have a few programmers, but not many are skilled in advanced network programming. That can pose a serious problem as there is very little left in the area of "client-side" programming that needs to be done to get a playable product released. Our team is porting our UI code over to the new technology, but aside from that, there isn't much client-specific code to be concerned with. Particle effects and animations for skills are set using a tool and automatically played and timed with another tool. The system for swapping and selecting outfits, and the creation of your character are done as well. Look forward to an update to my original post shortly.


@Lily Barclay, I can see how that may have sounded as if the plan was to do a full clone of CoH. However, it was intended to say that the goal isn't to completely alienate the game from its original aspirations. I do agree with you that the project was fairly dated, and honestly it was one of the longest surviving MMORPGs I've played. So, expect to see quite a few updates/improvements to the product we're proposing.


@Segev, I'll be contacting you shortly to discuss merging of assets and organization. I do agree that all projects would benefit and stand a better chance of success combined. Having worked on games and applications on an advanced software development level, I know how long something like this could take. I do, however, agree with you regarding your theory of the projection of time-sensitive release planning. Moreover, we plan on releasing a pre-alpha within months as the normal 3-4 years of development are relatively done haha. Therefore, we are left with a single option of using an engine that is openly capable of high performance on a wide-range of machines and operating systems. Releasing the game with Unity 4 would not only open playability to a larger range of PCs players (Windows), it ports to Mac and Linux in a single click. Providing access to Mac and Linux opens the game up to starving markets with limited game access. I would bet any amount of money that element alone will keep the servers loaded. In my expert opinion, it's just the better choice for robust accessibility.


@Perfidus, I agree. I'll be making efforts soon to Unite the divide. From my time on their forums today, it appears they have the development potential to build the depth of the game, all they both need now is the technical backing and organization to get a nice playable pre-alpha to the community. My company can definitely help with that. I also feel as you do; since the closing of City of Heroes I feel like a homeless wanderer looking for somewhere to go when all the smoke clears, at the end of the day. It's what drove me here, and will drive me to gather everyone to a centralized location. We'll make it happen, I can promise you that. I can spend about 1-2 weeks adding a few enemies and a skill set and have a pre-alpha playable using our technology, so I'm more than confident that a small team of dedicated developers could have a solid pre-alpha together in about 1-2 months. It's really important to establish strong gameplay presence before folding over into the content box. With the community helping with ideas and suggestions, a small team be would be relieved of the majority of their work efforts. They'd spend that relieved time planning for implementation of content and features immediately; this would greatly increase the flow of production.


@Lightslinger, I can't agree with you more. I've worked for various large companies from Microsoft to IBM, and I can tell you that releasing any product (by commercial standards) isn't easy at all. However, we have something more unique working in our favor; the possibility of crowd funding as well as established technology. If we could establish a community of 100,000 supports willing to donate 10 dollars a month, for 3-8 months that could fund 5 years of fully dedicated development for the core development team with external outsourcing as a variable. Based on its heavy customization options, it's imperative that outsourcing of character outfits and customization are added to the equation. We have to a development partnership with Danzige Studios (http://danzige.wordpress.com/#) and they have already gave the nod to working with us as a large scale outsource provider for 3D and 2D art at incredibly low rates. So, I do feel a collaborative effort is more viable and far more ideal.


@Downix, it's great to see you've put a lot of effort towards researching your options. A lot of developers dive in based on drive and ambition, but hit the water as if it was cement due to the lack of education. As I said above, we aren't looking to wait years for publications as the 3-4 year technology development has been accomplished already. I'll be contacting you shortly as well to talk about our options.


@FatherXmas, I'm not quite familiar with City of Heroes origin engine, but if you were there from the start, you saw the slow implementation of updates which is something I'd like to see the team behind our project do as time progresses.

Perfidus

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 370
  • "I, ah.. understand."
    • My arts.
Re: Community-Built COH Style MMORPG
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2013, 11:50:19 PM »
Definitely keep us posted if you would. I don't follow those other forums for the teams due to lack of time. I'd like to know what comes of your efforts to consolidate or join one of the teams.

TargetOne

  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
Re: Community-Built COH Style MMORPG
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2013, 01:39:36 AM »
I dunno, I'm not involved in any of it. Just a vagrant looking for a home, and the sooner the better.

Me too, Perfy, me too.

TargetOne

  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
Re: Community-Built COH Style MMORPG
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2013, 01:52:28 AM »
Aviticus,

My main concern with ANY "successor" to City of Heroes is, and will continue to be, that it be a community-controlled effort, one where the future of the game will be always be decided by the player base. I do not want to see a repeat of CoH's fate, where the game becomes beholden to some corporate behemoth that can shut it down on a lark if their bean-counters don't think it's profitable enough, or no longer fits into their "corporate focus".

As such, I'd like to see some kind of assurance that any consideration of the ultimate long-term fate of the game always keeps the player community's interests in mind, as well as some kind of control structure put into place to keep the game running under various scenarios. Granted, I have no idea what kind of controls would be needed, but there should be SOME means planned to keep the game running for die-hard fans in the face of declining popularity with the general public.

TargetOne

LT. Couper

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 119
  • The battle won't end until it's won!
Re: Community-Built COH Style MMORPG
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2013, 02:13:03 AM »
That reminds me; I briefly played CO today and just listening in to the zone chat, there were some rumors (or perhaps more like concerns) that Cryptic, because of slow/small updates, might shut down CO.

Is there anything we can/will do if such an event were to occur? Y'know, some sort of joined effort through shared pain or something? I don't have any huge attachment to it, I don't think the players of CO deserve to see their game meet the same fate as ours.
"Heroes may die, but heroism never shall." ~Cyrus "Breakneck" Thompson

ukaserex

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 500
Re: Community-Built COH Style MMORPG
« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2013, 03:02:03 AM »
Very interesting stuff! I learned a good bit - I knew we had two different projects working, but didn't know why. I kinda do now, and that doesn't make me shout for joy. In any event, I guess I'll have to get that second job to save up some more green when it comes time for cash investment.

Very interesting stuff, particularly about the cryengine.

It sounds like Legends of Etherell is about 3 to 4 years ahead of the other two projects. Out of curiosity, what's Etherell? A place or a person? A race of people? a bunch of unicorns?
Those who have no idea what they are doing genuinely have no idea that they don't know what they're doing. - John Cleese

Perfidus

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 370
  • "I, ah.. understand."
    • My arts.
Re: Community-Built COH Style MMORPG
« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2013, 03:23:21 AM »
That reminds me; I briefly played CO today and just listening in to the zone chat, there were some rumors (or perhaps more like concerns) that Cryptic, because of slow/small updates, might shut down CO.

Is there anything we can/will do if such an event were to occur? Y'know, some sort of joined effort through shared pain or something? I don't have any huge attachment to it, I don't think the players of CO deserve to see their game meet the same fate as ours.

We'd do the same thing the CO community did for us when our game shut down. Welcome them with open arms. But it doesn't surprise me that talk was going on. Cryptic has outright said that their focus is Neverwinter and STO, not CO.

But I'm not derailing this thread with that talk so if you wanna reply feel free to message. :)

Also, hi, Targy.

Rotten Luck

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 766
  • "I'd rather go out a hero than a coward."
Re: Community-Built COH Style MMORPG
« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2013, 04:19:02 AM »
They opened there arms to us.  I agree we shall welcome them.   More homeless Heroes to add to the might of a Plan Z operation.

@Aviticus Gladius If we can cut off production time by a few years I'm all for joining forces and using your system.  Now I think you should show us some examples of how your engine and work you have done can produce HERO like feel in game play. 
One way or another... Heroes will fly again!

Lucretia MacEvil

  • Guest
Re: Community-Built COH Style MMORPG
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2013, 04:51:03 AM »
Y'know, ever since talk of a successor to CoX started, there's been this obnoxious little voice in the back of my brain saying "tee hee, it'll never happen". 

Reading this thread made that voice whimper and shrivel. 

My doubt has doubts!  Thank you!!!!!

I also request additional updates as the situation develops and the development progresses.

Aviticus Gladius

  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 67
Re: Community-Built COH Style MMORPG
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2013, 06:28:03 AM »
@Perfidus, I'll definitely be posting here frequently. I'm really moved by the massive amount of support our community still has. My friend popped his head in here earlier and I got an email that said, "Told you it was a good idea, you have the capability to see it through. The community is behind a spiritual successor." That really made my day. What I found rather interesting is that he went on to say, "It seems like we never really thought of how we'd feel if it ever ended. It's like we just expected it to go on forever. You should really make tools that let players continue to host servers when you shut the actual server down." What's really awesome is that's something that is already added to the current build of Legends of Etherell. You can completely target a custom server to test the game. This is something we'll definitely add to the Hero MMORPG.


@LT. Couper, I'd say rally the supporters. It appears that these massive corporations overlook the players, and it's the primary reason our network is completely developer/player driven. There will never be any worries of such treachery taking place on our network. You'd think they would recognize that we give them all the power they have. If we just stopped purchasing their games, their company would implode. They are nothing without our "funding". We fund their entire business, not just their games, but their lifestyles and the future existence of our business, but they never seem to acknowledge that fact. While they are taking these 100,000 dollar vacations off our funding, you'd think they would stop to pop their heads into forums and see what we want, but they don't. So we have to do what we need to do for us.


@ukaserex, Yes Legends of Etherell is quite a bit ahead. Now that we are implementing the new server architecture, we've been slightly setback regarding our pre-alpha release that was planned for the end of this month. There is a lot of depth to the game that has required such a massive amount of development time. I'm sure over 60% of what is found in Legends of Etherell won't even been valid in a super hero MMO. In regards to Etherell, it's the name of the planet in the game. Antavia is the massive continent where the first part of the saga takes place.


@Rotten Luck, That's what I'm currently working on now. I had a really productive meeting with the executive members behind The Phoenix Project today and things went well. A lot of thought has to go into the potential collaboration, but it was good speaking with them and seeing what they had in development. Tonight I'll be sitting down with members of our team and looking at putting together a small playable demo to start experimenting with. I'm sure a few of them would like to put some work in on the project to build their resumes even though they are collaborating with other teams under the SHOGN banner.


@Lucretia MacEvil, it's definitely something that we're capable of, so that's the least of our concerns. It's all about the execution and getting the community behind it; implementing all the needed improvements that City of Heroes was lacking. We'll get it done, just as I say with everything else. When I started performing music and composing I was told I couldn't do it, then I landed a job working commercially for Sony's studios in Atlanta for 2 years before leaving to open my own recording studio. At 10 years old, my oldest sister started teaching me to programmer and a lot of people in school called me a geek, a nerd, saying I'd never be anything important. That was until the state of Texas personally recognized me for being one of the youngest individuals to develop software solutions for the state; hell we even got a day off from school for it and I they held a ceremony at school for me the next day to recognize me. I later went on to found SilverHelm Studios, where I still program and make music, both commercially and for my personal projects. I've never encountered anything I couldn't do aside from flying without the aid of devices. I'm sure I could probably do that to, I just haven't managed to figure out how to warp the fabric of space around me to create the illusion haha. Maybe one day I'll have time to meditate on that, but right now I have games to make. You have a single limit in life, and that's the one you create for yourself. Updates will appears as they're accomplished.

Lily Barclay

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 407
Re: Community-Built COH Style MMORPG
« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2013, 03:11:13 PM »
That reminds me; I briefly played CO today and just listening in to the zone chat, there were some rumors (or perhaps more like concerns) that Cryptic, because of slow/small updates, might shut down CO.

Is there anything we can/will do if such an event were to occur? Y'know, some sort of joined effort through shared pain or something? I don't have any huge attachment to it, I don't think the players of CO deserve to see their game meet the same fate as ours.

I honestly don't think they will shut it down. The game saw a large influx of players and new subscribers after the CoH shut down. They also saw the outrage and what happened to NCSoft. Given the community appeal to CoH on their site and the attention the community manager has paid to the Cox channel in game, I just really don't see that happening. I think after Neverwinter is finished in the next few months, they will get their devs back and may even see some content development.

Aviticus Gladius

  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 67
Re: Community-Built COH Style MMORPG
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2013, 08:41:21 AM »
I received this from a friend today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYBzs5P3eBs


After seeing it, we've made a strong decision to move forward with the push to gather assemble the current development team for our company's project. We will definitely be open to partnerships and collaborations, but the longer we wait, the longer people are homeless (so to speak). I was really moved hearing that one of my fellow veteran servicemen wasidentified as crying as thoughts of his separation from play sessions with him son entered his conversation. We'll be moving to launch the page within the next few weeks and have our Director of Marketing move forward with promotion and advertising. 

A Skype conference has just began with the new development group soon to work on our new Super Hero MMORPG. We've planned most of the execution today, and are about to further direct the team. Very soon the structure will be in place and the plan will take action. I'll be sharing more information regarding our plan and actions here soon.


Thanks very much for your support. We won't disappoint, because this is much important than any one of us. We are quite aware of that.

no hero

  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 62
  • Regens "do it" solo! :)
Re: Community-Built COH Style MMORPG
« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2013, 10:08:20 AM »
I have not felt someone tug at my heartstrings this hard since forever.
Please be kind and true.
Samantha:  "I have to ask you a question. It's a good one so think about it. If a Player and a Game love each other, but they just can't seem to get it together, when do you get to that point of enough is enough?"

Jerry:  "Never."

pewlagon

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 158
Re: Community-Built COH Style MMORPG
« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2013, 10:45:16 AM »
My main response to this is look carefully at what this community would deem a worthy successor and learn from the mistakes of other MMOs out there. Cater to everyone, all the way up. Meaning a player with limited time should be able to log in and do more than just craft something (*gag* Everquest.) Supers have the ability to face challenges head on or in a group at any stage in their development. You want a game that has Altaholics in mind. For me, I hit 50, I came up with a new concept and started over just to do the journey again, because I could. Also, the blocking mechanic of DCUO is much better than the twitch block of Champions, but it makes no sense to me. Sure, Supes blocks things, he can, but Bats gets out of the way. I'm all for new dynamic combat, but don't make it feel forced. I truly hate the champions block because you're just sitting there waiting for an opening in every single fight. Less comic book feel, more fighting game sim which is not want a lot of us want to play. There's more in the forums and since you played CoH I'm certain you know what hurdles to avoid. However, as someone that has tested a good number of MMOs the ones I saw fail are the ones where the Devs didn't listen or research what was needed to make a good MMO.

Amph

  • Underling
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • CoH fan from the start
Re: Community-Built COH Style MMORPG
« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2013, 11:51:08 AM »
Simple and to the point.

If you have the capabilities that you say you can marshal, and can unite the varied factions that are all striving towards the same goal, and can move the collected vision forward, I am nothing but enthusiastic for your efforts.

Champions, gave it 10 minues and deleted it, WoW lasted... maybe 5.  Good for those who like those and go on.  I have chosen to keep CoH in my heart, and pin my hopes on people who are much more talented and smarter than me, hoping that the fact that I have money to spend, and that I am waiting with wallet in hand, will make a new target for my affection and will be worthy of Another 8 Years.

I know that many feel that "my child", who I have nurtured from nothing, is brighter, smarter, and more loved than the next guys, but if this all comes together (by whatever means) we are all better for it if we achieve the goal so many are waiting to see.

All efforts need focus, but together?  Farther.  Faster.  And the dream, Fufilled.

(I just wanna spend my money and go back to where we were, to start, and go forward from there)

Thanks.

Rotten Luck

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 766
  • "I'd rather go out a hero than a coward."
Re: Community-Built COH Style MMORPG
« Reply #35 on: February 09, 2013, 04:40:33 PM »
I play on CO, but it's like a hollow pale version of what we lost.  I have every hope and believe in our community to get it done.  I also believe we should focus on one game, but understand internal issues are tugging at the core groups.  That said this is one Incarnate Task Force we must not fail at.  A quick list off the top of my head of needs.

1.) An Open Roleplay city.  Plenty of places for people to get together and hang out ranging from slums to High price clubs.
2.) Bases!  Both personal and Supergourp customization bases.  Did I mention bases?
3.) A massive Character customization.

I make it simple.  Give us the City, Means of making our own content, and we handle the rest. 

Quality over Quantity.  City of Heroes had massive amounts of stuff to do, there is no way to replace it all at start.  However what separated the fun missions from the content people skipped... Boomtown anyone...Is Quality.  Make what you do FUN and Creative and we would do it over and over again.

As I said we have been talking about what we want in a Spiritual Successor to our beloved City of Heroes since the announcement of the closer.  Take advantage of Titan Network, and I do hope you do combine forces with The Phoenix Project.  Mostly because I have been working with them and signed a NDA.  We have some good ideas I would love to see made real.

I don't really care what group makes a Successor be it one or All.  I want to have our CITY!
One way or another... Heroes will fly again!

Lily Barclay

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 407
Re: Community-Built COH Style MMORPG
« Reply #36 on: February 09, 2013, 04:53:56 PM »
So had this merged with the Phoenix protect? So confused.

Rotten Luck

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 766
  • "I'd rather go out a hero than a coward."
Re: Community-Built COH Style MMORPG
« Reply #37 on: February 09, 2013, 05:22:22 PM »
No I been trying to push them to.  At least they are talking.

The phoenix Project has lore and concept art already done.  I have no idea (NDA not withstanding) what they done technical side with the CryEnigine.

Aviticus Gladius group has an Engine and Servers / tech system set up.  As well as business side already set up.  The question I have here is can their tech handle the desires of the community.

To me it would be good use of both Groups to work together.  But this is just a personal thing for me.

With the split of Heroes and Villains/ and The Phoenix Project it's already confusing.  I don't know if the Plan Z: Justice even took off.  Adding another operation would muddy the waters even more.  We need focus and solidarity.

There is no merging I have no say in either group.  I WANT a Merging because I feel it the best for both groups, and best for the community as a whole.
One way or another... Heroes will fly again!

HEATSTROKE

  • Lovin' bein' an
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 992
Re: Community-Built COH Style MMORPG
« Reply #38 on: February 09, 2013, 05:57:47 PM »
I was a City of Heroes player for 8 years with over 40+ level 50 toons. paid subscriber that whole time and never had any intention to STOP subscribing, and spent money in Paragon Market regularly.

I have been eyeing The Phoenix Project from day one as what I was interested in. The MINUTE something becomes available to play I will contact every RL friend I have that played the game and about 15-20 regular in game friends I played with over 8 years.

We lost a lot when CoH died. Some of us got married. Had children. Some our children were teens who were playing who became ADULTS that were playing. We had at least two that became couples and got married. We grieved when some lost family members. We supported one another when people lost jobs..

If developers only understood the COMMUNITY.. they would understand the gold mine it truly was..

downix

  • Phoenix Project Technical Lead
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,962
Re: Community-Built COH Style MMORPG
« Reply #39 on: February 09, 2013, 07:17:57 PM »
No I been trying to push them to.  At least they are talking.
Yes, we are talking, and weighing the options.
Quote
The phoenix Project has lore and concept art already done.  I have no idea (NDA not withstanding) what they done technical side with the CryEnigine.
Quite a bit, however testing against Unity, as it is possible we may be able to migrate w/o significant work loss.
Quote
Aviticus Gladius group has an Engine and Servers / tech system set up.  As well as business side already set up.  The question I have here is can their tech handle the desires of the community.
That is one of our questions as well. We also have the business side set up as well I'd note.
Quote
To me it would be good use of both Groups to work together.  But this is just a personal thing for me.

With the split of Heroes and Villains/ and The Phoenix Project it's already confusing.  I don't know if the Plan Z: Justice even took off.  Adding another operation would muddy the waters even more.  We need focus and solidarity.

There is no merging I have no say in either group.  I WANT a Merging because I feel it the best for both groups, and best for the community as a whole.
We are talking. No promises either way, but the door for dialog is open.