Author Topic: Community-Built COH Style MMORPG  (Read 126929 times)

Kaos Arcanna

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,067
Re: Community-Built COH Style MMORPG
« Reply #40 on: February 09, 2013, 07:38:04 PM »
I know that some people are concerned about too many projects equaling nothing real being achieved.

I understand that aspect, but I have to admit that I am more of a "not putting all your eggs in one basket" kind of guy.

I have no personal experience in the field, but my hunch is that more games are developed than are actually released. I would rather have three or four separate groups trying than having just one. That way, if one or more fails, the others can learn from their attempts.





Tiberian Fiend

  • Minion
  • **
  • Posts: 49
  • Canis tiberius
Re: Community-Built COH Style MMORPG
« Reply #41 on: February 09, 2013, 10:39:31 PM »
@Lily, involving movement, camera position, skill usage, skill upgrades, and the likes. The story, lore, questing, and all other things content related is going to be developed by the community. Unless of course the community would like to see the gameplay modified. In that event, nothing will be duplicated. I'm under the impression that much like myself, other supporters don't want to play a completely different Super Hero MMORPG.
This sounds more like what I wanted Plan Z to be than either of the other projects are turning into.  I like the idea of CoH's powers, enhancements, teaming, combat system, and versatile costume generation being transported into a new game world.  I hope you don't get discouraged by the existence of the other projects.  I see these projects as seeds from a tree: the more it produces, the more likely one of the seedlings is to survive and thrive.
The Titantic Tiberian Fiend

Rotten Luck

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 766
  • "I'd rather go out a hero than a coward."
Re: Community-Built COH Style MMORPG
« Reply #42 on: February 10, 2013, 12:09:11 AM »
I'm more worried about loosing more friends because some go to one game, some go to another.  Right now we are all unhappy with what's out there.  Won't be that if more then one Plan Z operations are GOOD.
One way or another... Heroes will fly again!

ukaserex

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 500
Re: Community-Built COH Style MMORPG
« Reply #43 on: February 10, 2013, 01:23:11 AM »
Well...honestly, I'm a bit scared.

I'm scared we will have a new game. Then, the 12 pounds I've lost since the closure may return. The yard may again turn into a jungle. The only bright side will be me spending less money because I'll be gaming instead of being out and about town making useless impulse purchases.

A game that is addictive like CoH was...is a scary prospect. Playing a game for 6 hours a day during the week and 12-14 hours on the weekend isn't really much of a life. Stress free, perhaps. Fun, perhaps. But, when I think of all that time wasted...I think I could have actually gone to med-school (if I could have afforded it) with all that time I spent playing CoH. So, I'm going to hope whatever comes of all these efforts is casual friendly, because I'm sure going to try to only play on weekends.
Those who have no idea what they are doing genuinely have no idea that they don't know what they're doing. - John Cleese

Ironwolf

  • Stubborn as a
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,503
Re: Community-Built COH Style MMORPG
« Reply #44 on: February 10, 2013, 02:24:00 AM »
I intentionally played CoH from 5:30 to 6:15am and then from 9-11 pm daily and on the weekend I would get up at 7 and play to about 10 to do TFs and such. Occasionally I would play in the evening on weekends but rarely.

Aviticus Gladius

  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 67
Re: Community-Built COH Style MMORPG
« Reply #45 on: February 10, 2013, 02:59:06 AM »
@no hero, it weighs heavy on our team and myself, personally, as well. We have no intention of letting anyone down, nor will we. We are all quite aware of what we are involved with and what it means to people. Before my younger brother died from cancer complications, this was our favored game; City of Heroes represented a special time we spent gaming together. That is why it is very important that our product be a spiritual successor to the title, as opposed to a complete re-envisioning of the former product. Not saying that it will be a direct replica, but we'd love to rekindle the original feeling with compromising it.


@pewlagon, you're very right about the approach (in my honest opinion). This is why we will be working "WITH" the community to develop the game. Since I started developing Legends of Etherell, I have had a single principle that I operated under; Nobody knows what a gamer want more from a game than the gamers that play it. So, I believe that gamers working on games they will be playing lends to a higher rate of success than a developer building a game and shoving it in gamers' faces with no direction. You can't make someone play something they don't want to play, a game not being played loses profit, and a game with no profit will eventually fail. With that said, understand our most influential elements of game development has always been, and will always continue to be our community. I'm a developer, but in reality I'm nothing more than another member of this community. Make a note of that when you have time. If you ever feel that changes throughout the development of this title, feel free to put me in my place... You'll never find yourself having to, I can promise you that.


@Amph, your point is verily understood. We do understand that everyone would like to see all forces united, but we're also under the assumption that a majority of the community is unaware of the differences that separate the divide. Our team has a vision in which we work with the community to develop a derivative of the original City of Heroes franchise which may be viewed as a City of Heroes 2 to many. However, the other titles seem destined to innovate, which I personally don't view as a bad thing. Therefore, I believe each project, in the event that they all remain independent, will appeal to players of various markets. I wouldn't label our project as a "City of Heroes Clone", but more of a "City of Heroes Continuation". We don't look to copy, we look to continue to build upon elements of the former product which we feel has lots of merit.


@Lily Barclay, I feel that Downix has accurately answered your question. Lines of communication has been opened, and we have a channel on Skype where we have spoken regularly since first contact. As he said, we can't guarantee anyone that a merger will happen due to what I stated earlier in this reply. We currently have different ideologies at work and they may not coincide. I'm most certain that we will be releasing something playable real soon, and most likely before anyone else here. It will most likely be the deciding factor in who is the frontrunner, but also shed some light on how our product plays. This may introduce or open more lines of communications between the currently divided groups. Moreover, we have already began to move forward with pre-alpha development of our product, so time will tell exactly how people will feel about the project.


@Rotten Luck, understand that we're more than aware of your concerns. However, we don't feel that the divide is particular bad; though not particularly good either. I personally feel that it will give players something to choose from. If The Phoenix Project starts to garnish the larger audience, while the other projects fade into darkness, it points us in a given direction. If all products are gaining equal ground, it shows that the market is in favor of neither. I've spent a lot of time here in the titan forums doing research and I seem to have found a market for both something original and a recreation of CoH's former glory. As our project is all about the community, I think we have the proper guidance medium to insure that we deliver the proper gameplay elements to maneuver us in the right direction.


@HEATSTROKE, this is the emotional attachment that many of us have with the game. When you spoke of it being a gold mine, I thought of that "gold" as being all the valued time spent and not so much it's monetary value to NC Soft. Just 2 weeks ago, one of our supergroup leaders and I laughed until we couldn't stand talking about some of the great times we had; especially when we brought newbs from work into high level areas and struggled to survived; many times we ended up hauling ass out of hellified situations thanks to their outrageous actions haha. But those are the experiences that stuck with us, and can't be replaced by any others. I was also a subscription customer until the end, with no plans to deviate. So please know that we will always be working hard to keep the spirit of the original community and that experience alive with our project.


@downix, thanks for clearing the air about that. I was supposed to post an update here this morning, but I've been busy preparing the UI art for the project.


@Kaos Arcanna, that is a great philosophy to present. I fully agree with you on this, and I feel that's how it will eventually play out.


@Tiberian Fiend, Agreed. As I stated earlier, I also feel it helps for direction and information.


@ukaserex, Unfortunately, we are looking to continue the addictive nature of City of Heroes. Maybe we could programmer a setting that lets players initiate a timer that prevents them from logging in past a set daily, weekly, or monthly duration. What do you think about something like that?

@Ironwolf, I played about 2-3 hours Monday-Friday, and usually 6-7 hours on Saturdays and Sundays. Now that I think about it, that was quite a bit of time spent. Maybe that's why most of us can't let go haha.

Kriiden

  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 91
Re: Community-Built COH Style MMORPG
« Reply #46 on: February 10, 2013, 04:20:16 AM »
I'm also for a merger. We are a large and dedicated community, but not HUGE. Dividing us up is not the best Idea. I guess what I am saying is: Have both sides take "losses" on thing's they want. Come to a middle ground. Make a merger.


3 games + DCUO and CO? No bueno....

Lightslinger

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 277
  • @Lightslinger, Virtue
Re: Community-Built COH Style MMORPG
« Reply #47 on: February 10, 2013, 04:21:48 AM »
Sounds to me like this is turning into what could be a Godsend for The Pheonix Projext. While more games in development sounds safer, we are a very limited group here. Limited by population, money, talent, drive, etc. I'm not downing our community at all, I'd stack us up against any other gaming community when it comes to quality, but we can get spread too thin.

I personally thought the first split was disastrous, fracture the community further with this Justice thing and now this and we will not have enough volunteers to keep any one project going.

JetFlash

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 100
Re: Community-Built COH Style MMORPG
« Reply #48 on: February 10, 2013, 05:33:36 AM »
I honestly don't think they will shut it down. The game saw a large influx of players and new subscribers after the CoH shut down. They also saw the outrage and what happened to NCSoft. Given the community appeal to CoH on their site and the attention the community manager has paid to the Cox channel in game, I just really don't see that happening. I think after Neverwinter is finished in the next few months, they will get their devs back and may even see some content development.

Or, at the very least, they would give it a proper send-off.  A true sunsetting, unlike what was done to COH and Paragon.

Good to see this development, makes the reincarnation of our City that much closer.

Lucretia MacEvil

  • Guest
Re: Community-Built COH Style MMORPG
« Reply #49 on: February 10, 2013, 06:23:33 AM »
Sounds to me like this is turning into what could be a Godsend for The Pheonix Projext. While more games in development sounds safer, we are a very limited group here. Limited by population, money, talent, drive, etc. I'm not downing our community at all, I'd stack us up against any other gaming community when it comes to quality, but we can get spread too thin.

I personally thought the first split was disastrous, fracture the community further with this Justice thing and now this and we will not have enough volunteers to keep any one project going.

I second this opinion.

I know that some people are concerned about too many projects equaling nothing real being achieved.

Too many projects will mean that nothing gets done.  The question is how many is too many?

Quote
I understand that aspect, but I have to admit that I am more of a "not putting all your eggs in one basket" kind of guy.

I have no personal experience in the field, but my hunch is that more games are developed than are actually released. I would rather have three or four separate groups trying than having just one. That way, if one or more fails, the others can learn from their attempts.

Really reminds me of this quote from Mark Twain; "Behold, the fool saith, Put not all thine eggs in the one basket, -- which is but a manner of saying, Scatter your money and your attention, but the wise man saith, Put all your eggs in the one basket and -- watch that basket."

I'm not trying to imply that having more than one project is foolish; you brought up good and valid points about the benefits of having more than one.  We just need to figure out how many "baskets" we can watch without getting too distracted.

ukaserex

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 500
Re: Community-Built COH Style MMORPG
« Reply #50 on: February 10, 2013, 06:39:41 AM »
@ukaserex, Unfortunately, we are looking to continue the addictive nature of City of Heroes. Maybe we could programmer a setting that lets players initiate a timer that prevents them from logging in past a set daily, weekly, or monthly duration. What do you think about something like that?

I appreciate the thought. That's a responsible thing for a company to do, but in the end, we are all responsible for our own choices, no?

However, a parental control might go over well with folks with children. Mine are grown, so it'd be something I'd look past.
Those who have no idea what they are doing genuinely have no idea that they don't know what they're doing. - John Cleese

Tiberian Fiend

  • Minion
  • **
  • Posts: 49
  • Canis tiberius
Re: Community-Built COH Style MMORPG
« Reply #51 on: February 10, 2013, 07:27:25 AM »
I'm also for a merger. We are a large and dedicated community, but not HUGE. Dividing us up is not the best Idea. I guess what I am saying is: Have both sides take "losses" on thing's they want. Come to a middle ground. Make a merger.


3 games + DCUO and CO? No bueno....
First of all, ain't nobody here playing DC or Champions (at least, not by choice).  Secondly, one of the Projects Z is most likely going to fail due to the personality of its leader.  Third, the bottom-up approach of Mr. Gladius is the one that's most likely to succeed.

@Aviticus Gladius:  I hope you start up some fora for your project soon, so that the community may discuss it.  I also hope you come up with a better UI than CoH had.  Text buttons are a bad idea and hard to read, especially at higher resolutions.  The chat channel buttons were the worst.
The Titantic Tiberian Fiend

Aggelakis

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,001
Re: Community-Built COH Style MMORPG
« Reply #52 on: February 10, 2013, 08:16:16 AM »
First of all, ain't nobody here playing DC or Champions (at least, not by choice).
Actually, there are plenty of people playing both DC and Champions, or one of the two. Please don't assume to speak for everyone.
Bob Dole!! Bob Dole. Bob Dole! Bob Dole. Bob Dole. Bob Dole... Bob Dole... Bob... Dole...... Bob...


ParagonWiki
OuroPortal

no hero

  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 62
  • Regens "do it" solo! :)
Re: Community-Built COH Style MMORPG
« Reply #53 on: February 10, 2013, 08:21:24 AM »
I have to come clean.
I tried CO and feel dirty doing so. It won't wash off.
Hopefully my confession will aid in purging the sin.
Samantha:  "I have to ask you a question. It's a good one so think about it. If a Player and a Game love each other, but they just can't seem to get it together, when do you get to that point of enough is enough?"

Jerry:  "Never."

Rotten Luck

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 766
  • "I'd rather go out a hero than a coward."
Re: Community-Built COH Style MMORPG
« Reply #54 on: February 10, 2013, 09:03:26 AM »
There is nothing wrong with playing Champions or DC.  I even toyed with the idea of restarting my WOW account.

Champions at least been made by Cryptic so deep down there echos of what we lost.  It's not the same and from time to time I try things Paragon style and sign off shocked that it didn't work.  Until Paragon returns, or a new City is built on it's memories.  We just have to continue to struggle through these darkest nights.

With every sunset there is a Dawn.  We just have to keep the torches burning till then.
One way or another... Heroes will fly again!

Aviticus Gladius

  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 67
Re: Community-Built COH Style MMORPG
« Reply #55 on: February 10, 2013, 11:02:16 AM »
@Last replies, we understand the everyone's desire for the merger and the concerns of the community in regards to potential thinning. However, at the moment, we just want to start introducing things to the players. A lot of thought and effort will have to go into merging; this won't happen in a matter of weeks or months. Stop for a second and magine what would have happened had someone told the original designers of City of Heroes to simply conform to the "then" standard MMORPG requisite; at the time the market would flooded with fantasy/anime inspired MMOs. If they would have folded to the pressure, we would have never trader our souls for Heroism. Sometimes a compromise can be made, sometimes it cannot. We'll let the community help with the decisions once everyone has had an opportunity to see what we can do.

In other new, the site is going up tomorrow. I just finished adding the art and creating the logo. At the moment, we're looking for idea for sections/categories for the forum and reward ideas for donations; for reward ideas please accompany them with monetary values as well. If you have any ideas please feel free to share them here. Thanks in advance.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2013, 11:13:27 AM by Aviticus Gladius »

Tiberian Fiend

  • Minion
  • **
  • Posts: 49
  • Canis tiberius
Re: Community-Built COH Style MMORPG
« Reply #56 on: February 10, 2013, 11:49:29 AM »
Actually, there are plenty of people playing both DC and Champions, or one of the two. Please don't assume to speak for everyone.
Because they like them, or because they have nothing else to play?
The Titantic Tiberian Fiend

Nightmarer

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 182
  • We all float down here
Re: Community-Built COH Style MMORPG
« Reply #57 on: February 10, 2013, 01:43:46 PM »
I for one, am not sure about the project merge. The more I read about the Phoenix Project, the less interested I am on it while I'm totally loving the idea of a game as close to CoH as possible. 

The main concern for Aviticus' project would be the reverse engineering project, specially if a CoH community (or however you want to call it, just check that thread about it) server comes live together with development plans for the game in such server and by development plans, I of course mean something serious, the like of serious you can find on a community like this one.

The White Rager

  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 75
    • The Wordpile
Re: Community-Built COH Style MMORPG
« Reply #58 on: February 10, 2013, 03:23:48 PM »
I don't mean to put down fellow CoH players struggling to heal our wounds in their own way, but frankly, my experience when it comes to any and all things creative - and a good game is very much an exercise in creativity and creation - is that those who only strive to imitate, can only achieve mediocrity, and will never compare to what they were imitating. That's why I prefer the Phoenix Project, because I think they recognize this. To take something as inspiration, as a foundation, is an entirely different matter, and the idea of a new game being developed by truly skilled and properly organized people who played and loved CoH and know why it was special and appreciate the many things it did differently and well is all I could ever ask of the world. If anything, I would consider that CoH's truest and most rightful legacy - that even after it is gone, all about, gamers and game developers remember, and learn, and emulate. Just finding out there is a professional studio full of people who admired CoH using it as a model to develop games in another genre entirely made my day, even without your pledge to help us cultivate a CoH successor.

NEVER strive merely to stay where you were: strive to go one better. That is absolutely essential. The Phoenix Project understands this. I get why many would want to just imitate CoH as closely as possible and get nervous at the idea of changing things, but I guarantee you that just trying to be 'as close as possible without violating IP' will flop. Because that sort of thing always does. If you try to make something without using anything of your own - if your only goal is to use the ideas and inspiration of somebody else - it's already over. Because that formula fundamentally lacks the most necessary ingredients for success.

Kaos Arcanna

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,067
Re: Community-Built COH Style MMORPG
« Reply #59 on: February 10, 2013, 04:17:57 PM »
I second this opinion.

Too many projects will mean that nothing gets done.  The question is how many is too many?

Really reminds me of this quote from Mark Twain; "Behold, the fool saith, Put not all thine eggs in the one basket, -- which is but a manner of saying, Scatter your money and your attention, but the wise man saith, Put all your eggs in the one basket and -- watch that basket."

I'm not trying to imply that having more than one project is foolish; you brought up good and valid points about the benefits of having more than one.  We just need to figure out how many "baskets" we can watch without getting too distracted.

At this stage in the process I wouldn't be overly concerned if there were ten or more start up projects. We're still essentially at the vaporware stage. (And who knows? There might be major developers out there who are working on something to capture the spirit of COH right now that we haven't heard about yet.)

I could see it being an issue if we wind up with two or three games asking for community funding at the exact same time or if two or more games actually reach publication and go on sale, but right now we're not at either stage so I think the more people trying the more likely we are to actually see something CONCRETE arise from it.