Author Topic: Matt Miller (Positron) on Altitis (MMORPG Article)  (Read 17643 times)

Feycat

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Re: Matt Miller (Positron) on Altitis (MMORPG Article)
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2013, 06:33:45 PM »
I'm probably thinking of event weapon/armor skins.  True they are account bound but once applied can be a real PITA to trade between characters.

Transmutation stones. Put item which has been transmutated into your account-wide bank. Take it on new character. Done.

And some of the new skins (the achievement point/vet rewards ones) can even be claimed multiple times.

FatherXmas

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Re: Matt Miller (Positron) on Altitis (MMORPG Article)
« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2013, 07:42:44 PM »
Yes but that's the pain.  And level 80 TCs cost gems.
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Feycat

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Re: Matt Miller (Positron) on Altitis (MMORPG Article)
« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2013, 08:33:46 PM »
Yes but that's the pain.  And level 80 TCs cost gems.

Unless you get them from zone completes or BLCs, but now we're totally derailing this.



ON TOPIC, I find it insane that Posi was THAT out of touch with what made the game great.

Kaos Arcanna

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Re: Matt Miller (Positron) on Altitis (MMORPG Article)
« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2013, 09:06:49 PM »
Unless you get them from zone completes or BLCs, but now we're totally derailing this.



ON TOPIC, I find it insane that Posi was THAT out of touch with what made the game great.

Honestly, I think that's because COH was the MMO for people who weren't MMO players, and Matt is much more of a MMO player than the average COH person was.


therain93

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Re: Matt Miller (Positron) on Altitis (MMORPG Article)
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2013, 01:53:45 AM »
Honestly, I think that's because COH was the MMO for people who weren't MMO players, and Matt is much more of a MMO player than the average COH person was.
Now, that is a profound statement -- very interesting.
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Re: Matt Miller (Positron) on Altitis (MMORPG Article)
« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2013, 05:56:17 AM »
Similar to what others have posted, I was confused by Matt talking about alt-itis as "a problem" for MMO design. I had always thought City of Heroes was designed to encourage alternate characters as a way of getting players to play longer. Even for the Incarnate end-game system that Matt designed, didn't lots of alternate characters just encourage players to keep grinding? For me, the premise of his argument needed to be more fully articulated and better explained because I don't understand how altism is problematic for an MMO designer.

- Maybe Matt knows that his intended audience (excluding me and evidently some other posters) already accepts the notion that altism is a problem?
- Maybe he was playing devil's advocate and just articulating a position (not necessarily his personal opinion) as a way of examining a topic?
- Maybe Matt was positioning himself for potential employers by showing that he is up to speed and on board with a dominant industry trend?
- Maybe he got negative feedback about alt-itis in CoH during preliminary discussions with a prospective employer, and so he's trying to distance himself from an out-moded design model?
- Maybe Matt always held the view that altism was a problem for him as a designer, but he was stuck with it in CoH and just had to do the best he could? Maybe his view has evolved since moving on from CoH?

I don't know the answers to these questions. Only Matt does. And he's already had his say (in the article), so I don't think we'll be getting closure on this issue.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 04:33:56 AM by Todogut »

Aggelakis

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Re: Matt Miller (Positron) on Altitis (MMORPG Article)
« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2013, 06:32:05 AM »
I like how the vast majority of the comments to Matt's article are talking about their awesome time alting. I hope Matt is furious. lol
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Re: Matt Miller (Positron) on Altitis (MMORPG Article)
« Reply #27 on: August 20, 2013, 07:32:50 PM »
Endgame problems due to alt-itis? I always thought COH had very decent endgame.
Your reward, being able to play 90% of the game! (at higher difficulty of course)

Compared to the raid stile games, where you reach max level and have eaten up, locked out, or out grown 90% the content.
There's plenty of alt-itis there too, money grinding alts, raid perm alts, alts to play certain pieces of content again.

Yes, the large holliday events were tough with getting the badges for all the alts. I just picked a favourite character as I did in the other MMOs. And some 'goodies' and drops for the rest
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General Idiot

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Re: Matt Miller (Positron) on Altitis (MMORPG Article)
« Reply #28 on: August 21, 2013, 03:59:57 PM »
They even fixed the problem with the holiday badges and such in the newer events, though it was never backported to the older ones. Might've been if not for the shutdown. But account wide badges were a thing and still are in other games. Most of the living story achievements in GW2 are account wide for example. So that at least is nowhere near the huge unsolvable problem he makes it out to be.

srmalloy

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Re: Matt Miller (positron) on Altitis (MMORPG Article)
« Reply #29 on: August 22, 2013, 07:10:48 PM »
Take for example SWTOR.  I played through the game the first time with a Trooper.  What did I enjoy the most?  The stories.  Combat was just a way to get myself to the next bit of story.  I didn't care about gear, PvP, crafting... just the story.  My second play through was on a Jedi Knight.  I really enjoyed seeing my Jedi's story arc unfold.  And I really started to hate running around and fighting.  Eventually, I just got so tired of the fighting that I didn't even care if I saw the rest of my story arc.  The same was true for every character class in the game (I had one character for each so that I could play through each story.)  The burden of combat eventually became such a weight that I just left the game.  When I let my subscription lapse, I had only played through my trooper's arc to the end, 3/4 of my Jedi Knight's arc, about 1/4 of the Smuggler arc, and a few levels worth of my Sith Warrior.  The other classes, I left almost completely untouched.  (I played through the first part of the Bounty Hunter in beta, but never got around to replaying it after the game went live.)

After six months, I was pretty much done with SWTOR.  CoH kept me around for 8+ years.

It's all the little things that CoH did to break the 'stock' MMO playstyle that kept it attractive. I've been playing SWTOR since the CoH servers went dark, and if what you want is to experience a different storyline, there's no real reason to ever create more than eight characters -- one for each base class from each faction. Each base class, regardless of advanced class, has exactly the same class missions, and there are so few non-class missions that you're pretty much stuck with doing all of them on each character. CoH, even at the end with every new character fed into the same 'starter' mission series that introduced them to gameplay, could toss it all as soon as they got introduced to other contacts, or even ignore it from the start and street sweep or do sewer trials, and there was never any one storyline -- you could select the contacts you wanted for each new introduction, and pick which story arcs you wanted to complete. While the general sweep of advancement might be similar, I would be surprised if any two characters completed exactly the same missions on their way from 1 to 50.

And other MMOs seem to be mired in both the "3 minions = 1 hero" and 'role trinity' concepts that CoH threw out the window -- SWTOR, for example, explicitly has you select from 'Tank', 'DPS', and 'Heal' as your role when using the group finder to queue for flashpoints, and it's programmed to assemble groups as 1 tank, 2 DPS, and 1 heal. There's none of the "Who wants to do [TF]?" and taking anyone regardless of class or build that CoH had.

I enjoy SWTOR, but it's not the "get lost in playing a character and find out that I've been at it for six hours" fun that I had with CoH; too often, it slides from fun to tedium after only an hour or so, and I need to take a break and read or play a different game for a while.

LaughingAlex

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Re: Matt Miller (positron) on Altitis (MMORPG Article)
« Reply #30 on: August 22, 2013, 11:53:30 PM »
And other MMOs seem to be mired in both the "3 minions = 1 hero" and 'role trinity' concepts that CoH threw out the window -- SWTOR, for example, explicitly has you select from 'Tank', 'DPS', and 'Heal' as your role when using the group finder to queue for flashpoints, and it's programmed to assemble groups as 1 tank, 2 DPS, and 1 heal. There's none of the "Who wants to do [TF]?" and taking anyone regardless of class or build that CoH had.

I enjoy SWTOR, but it's not the "get lost in playing a character and find out that I've been at it for six hours" fun that I had with CoH; too often, it slides from fun to tedium after only an hour or so, and I need to take a break and read or play a different game for a while.

That is the whole reason I loved CoX, the fact that it broke the role trinity and also the fact that it broke the "the player can only engage one very weak group of guys at a time cause he's very weak".  Other MMO's are just so boring, even some developers are realising it and jokes are being made.  The devs talking about Everquest Next for example said "Enough making the same game over and over again.".  It's amazing people didn't look at City of heroes, but then we can blame NCSoft for not advertising.  Really gonna be happy if/when CoX gets back on it's feet for that reason alone; so many MMO's are clones of one another.
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Triplash

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Re: Matt Miller (positron) on Altitis (MMORPG Article)
« Reply #31 on: August 23, 2013, 01:49:46 AM »
I enjoy SWTOR, but it's not the "get lost in playing a character and find out that I've been at it for six hours" fun that I had with CoH; too often, it slides from fun to tedium after only an hour or so, and I need to take a break and read or play a different game for a while.

Uggh. See, if a game actively makes me want to stop playing it, then in my mind it loses any other fun it did have. In fact if something's not fun, to me it no longer even qualifies as a game. That's the point where I "Stop, Drop, and Roll." Stop playing, Drop it like a hot potato, and Roll on down the road.

But yeah, in City I could easily get lost in a character and look up later, shocked to find out the clock had jumped ahead several hours while I wasn't looking. Happened quite a lot, actually. :)

FatherXmas

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Re: Matt Miller (Positron) on Altitis (MMORPG Article)
« Reply #32 on: August 23, 2013, 02:19:43 AM »
Transmutation stones. Put item which has been transmutated into your account-wide bank. Take it on new character. Done.

And some of the new skins (the achievement point/vet rewards ones) can even be claimed multiple times.

Now I remember my point.  You unlock the achievement (badge) per player and not per character but the reward was only available on one of your characters.  Like the tentacled back piece skin.  There was no way to get a 2nd one if you wanted too.  So on one hand you didn't need to run the content on every character for the "badge" (good thing for players with alts) but they only gave you a costume piece you can use only on a single character without an option get more (bad thing for players with alts).  True they started doing this differently with a global unlock but that's after months of you shall get one and only one event reward to use on one character.
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Blondeshell

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Re: Matt Miller (Positron) on Altitis (MMORPG Article)
« Reply #33 on: August 23, 2013, 03:08:46 AM »
Now I remember my point.  You unlock the achievement (badge) per player and not per character but the reward was only available on one of your characters.  Like the tentacled back piece skin.  There was no way to get a 2nd one if you wanted too.  So on one hand you didn't need to run the content on every character for the "badge" (good thing for players with alts) but they only gave you a costume piece you can use only on a single character without an option get more (bad thing for players with alts).  True they started doing this differently with a global unlock but that's after months of you shall get one and only one event reward to use on one character.

Sounds kinda like when people were awarded Bug Hunter and chose to have it applied to a character that ended up not being either their main badge hunter or their favorite to play.

Jachim

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Re: Matt Miller (Positron) on Altitis (MMORPG Article)
« Reply #34 on: August 23, 2013, 11:49:31 PM »
See, I never worried about getting all the holiday loot for each character, because there was always next year.


God that made me cry :(

Noyjitat

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Re: Matt Miller (positron) on Altitis (MMORPG Article)
« Reply #35 on: August 24, 2013, 07:29:11 AM »
*snip*

Play a sithwarrior if you like story all the way; the writers did extremely well at writing the story for the sith empire and especially with that of a warrior. You probably won't enjoy the inquisitors storyline however; which starts out amazing and then begins to get repetitive and finally concludes with a "I feel cheated" ending.
I don't really have a response for you if you don't atleast like combat while leveling. I can say however that it does become extremely tedious in the what was once awesome endgame system before explosive conflict and the new overly difficult endgame was added. They literally went from moderately hard content that could be learned by and completed by the average group to extremely hard stuff where one or two people in your group can F up the whole raid. I also don't consider watching cooldowns expire more enjoyable than looking at what im fighting. Perhaps they will fix that someday.

eabrace

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Re: Matt Miller (positron) on Altitis (MMORPG Article)
« Reply #36 on: August 24, 2013, 02:30:02 PM »
I don't really have a response for you if you don't atleast like combat while leveling.
It's not that I hate combat.  I just don't like the same combat over and over again.  I can only put up with running back and forth killing things on Quesh for just so long before I don't really feel all that excited about logging back the next day.  And there's not enough of a difference (to me, at least) between classes on opposite sides - Bounty Hunters and Troopers, for example - to make me feel like I haven't done this all before.
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corvus1970

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Re: Matt Miller (Positron) on Altitis (MMORPG Article)
« Reply #37 on: August 25, 2013, 12:41:09 AM »
Man, its my alt-itis that kept me playing for over 7 years. When I got a little tired of one character/costume/archetype, I could switch up and play another. Its one of the aspects of the game I loved the most.

Granted, there were bits of in-game content I missed out on because of my alt-itis, like most of the the First Ward, and that stinks because I thought I'd eventually have time to do that.

Damn you NCSOFT  >:(

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healix

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Re: Matt Miller (Positron) on Altitis (MMORPG Article)
« Reply #38 on: August 25, 2013, 08:42:27 AM »


Listen to the 'mustn'ts'. Listen to the 'don'ts'. Listen to the 'shouldn'ts', the 'impossibles', the 'won'ts'. Listen to the 'you'll never haves', then listen close to me... Anything can happen . Anything can be.

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