any update on google?

[alphajaybo]

hi. has there been any updated news on whether Google has actually considered trying to make a deal with NCSOFT yet. and also, i was reading somewhere that the longer NCSOFT holds onto the ip for city of heroes the less valuable it becomes.

[alphajaybo]

also if Google are Deadly serious about wanting to get into the gaming business this would be a great opportunity for them.

1 they would be taking on a game that by now is probably one of the most recognized mmo's even since its shutdown.

2 they would have a foot hold in the mmo industry, they would'nt have to go all out straight away, as its not as if they are making a new mmo from scratch.

3 if city of heroes is going to make money.(Not like 20 million a year. but enough to make it sustainable) then there shouldn't be hardly any problems financially.

4 they shouldn't need any more than 50 employees working on it to keep it sustainable and still keep content coming out. (even if content isn't coming out as fast as it was.)

5 also if they want sales to go up. they could actually advertise it im sure NCSOFT. would have probably been able to stop the closure by advertising it like they did GW2. as if you look, most people that found out about the game was through a friend/family member.   

[MakoMako]

4 they shouldn't need any more than 50 employees working on it to keep it sustainable and still keep content coming out. (even if content isn't coming out as fast as it was.)

Better than that. I think for a while, CoH only had about 15 people developing for it, until Paragon Studios boomed up.

[Aggelakis]

Better than that. I think for a while, CoH only had about 15 people developing for it, until Paragon Studios boomed up.

Keep in mind that with 15 people, Issue 7 took seven months to come out. That's basically a stagnant game in terms of the MMO field.

[Nyx Nought Nothing]

Keep in mind that with 15 people, Issue 7 took seven months to come out. That's basically a stagnant game in terms of the MMO field.

It's worth noting that the addition of LUA scripting and other changes to the game engine that were in beta at shutdown would make it easier to add content going forward if City of Heroes was revived. Even if CoH was revived with a skeleton staff of 15 it would still be easier to add to the game than in the days of the "Freem 15", setting aside the initial period of getting a new team up to speed with the codebase.

Of course there's still the issue of getting NCsoft to take selling the game seriously. To me the abrupt closure and some of the subsequent NCsoft statements imply company politics and infighting as being a significant factor. There may be members of the company's leadership that wanted CoH where it is now for personal reasons that have nothing to do with the game itself, financially or otherwise, and want it to stay that way. Not that i have any way of knowing one way or the other with any certainty, and NCsoft has shut down other games simply because they weren't big enough.

[alphajaybo]

yeah something tells me NCSOFT simply wants COH to stay buried. but the thing is. the more they hold onto it the less valuable it becomes. so technically they are screwing themselves out of lots of money by simply not having the brain power to work out how much money they could make off of selling it. also i would pay cryptic a tonne of money to buy everything to do with COH back off of NCSOFT. also the latest thing they said was they didnt want to sell it as non of the buyers would have catered to the community like they did. I laughed so much after reading that in their statement how is someone wanting to buy it so the game can live longer worse than just burying it

[JaguarX]

yeah something tells me NCSOFT simply wants COH to stay buried. but the thing is. the more they hold onto it the less valuable it becomes. so technically they are screwing themselves out of lots of money by simply not having the brain power to work out how much money they could make off of selling it. also i would pay cryptic a tonne of money to buy everything to do with COH back off of NCSOFT. also the latest thing they said was they didnt want to sell it as non of the buyers would have catered to the community like they did. I laughed so much after reading that in their statement how is someone wanting to buy it so the game can live longer worse than just burying it

Well what they could get out of COH in a realistic manner is not very much relatively to them. Maybe 10-15 million out of their 600 odd million in revenue (2012). About 2 cents out of a dollar. I doubt many people here fret about losing 2 cents out of a dollar.


Remember those items in COX that was so near worthless that people just delete them instead of making a few pennies on the market selling it? Same concept, unless it's valued at something worth their time to even bother with the process of selling, they probably wont. But right now, they aint making any money but people forget it isn't costing them any money but they own an asset. While that assets may decrease in value over time for selling purposes which they probably are not looking into anyways, it remains a valuable assets in other ways. Instead of selling the IP, but wait, they want to use Manticore for something. Now they don't own it so now they have to either ask or pay for permission to use it. While now since they own it, they don't have to ask anyone or spend money on negotiation process or pay for it. They can just do it and have the choice there to do it anytime any place. Sometimes the value of choice is worth more than a measly $8-$15 million out of $600 million. especially when chasing those two pennies have the potential to cost more in the long run down the line.


Or maybe they figure their image is in fact damaged states side. I wouldn't sell a any property that would be of the enemy benefit for any price either.


Either way they aint hurting for cash and while the guy down the street could sell one of his four cars and if he did it would be $2,000 he didn't have and "should be chasing every dime that come their way." Oddly he didn't want to give it up even though he don't us it and cars decrease in value over the years and he is sitting on an asset that is losing value. Very odd strange behavior there. I don't understand why he wont take my offer of $2,000 so I can turn around make a profit since he's not using the car.

[alphajaybo]

Well what they could get out of COH in a realistic manner is not very much relatively to them. Maybe 10-15 million out of their 600 odd million in revenue (2012). About 2 cents out of a dollar. I doubt many people here fret about losing 2 cents out of a dollar.


Remember those items in COX that was so near worthless that people just delete them instead of making a few pennies on the market selling it? Same concept, unless it's valued at something worth their time to even bother with the process of selling, they probably wont. But right now, they aint making any money but people forget it isn't costing them any money but they own an asset. While that assets may decrease in value over time for selling purposes which they probably are not looking into anyways, it remains a valuable assets in other ways. Instead of selling the IP, but wait, they want to use Manticore for something. Now they don't own it so now they have to either ask or pay for permission to use it. While now since they own it, they don't have to ask anyone or spend money on negotiation process or pay for it. They can just do it and have the choice there to do it anytime any place. Sometimes the value of choice is worth more than a measly $8-$15 million out of $600 million. especially when chasing those two pennies have the potential to cost more in the long run down the line.


Or maybe they figure their image is in fact damaged states side. I wouldn't sell a any property that would be of the enemy benefit for any price either.


Either way they aint hurting for cash and while the guy down the street could sell one of his four cars and if he did it would be $2,000 he didn't have and "should be chasing every dime that come their way." Oddly he didn't want to give it up even though he don't us it and cars decrease in value over the years and he is sitting on an asset that is losing value. Very odd strange behavior there. I don't understand why he wont take my offer of $2,000 so I can turn around make a profit since he's not using the car.

i kinda agree on the fact that why gain 15 million when they earn 600 million anyway. also please say if im wrong or not but if they sold it they wouldn't be able to use the games core system and how its run ect. so technicaly they could sit on it for a couple of years and then make a new game out of its system?

[Eoraptor]

You know, a rather paranoid thought occurred to me just the other day. 

Nothing that NCSoft has done makes business sense regarding CoH. They say they are killing it as part of "a strategic realignment" to focus on the asian market, and then turn around and get right into bed with the west less than a year later. They say they tried to sell it, but then later come out and say nothing has been decided. They kill the project and then don't reassign any of the assets, including 80 odd talented designers who could at the very least have done remote work on their other games for them. they divest themselves of any money they could have made on the IP or the engine by re-purposing it... but then, are completely uninterested in even making fast cash on the sale of those assets.

It seems like the text book on what NOT to do in big business, even using the sociopathic mindset that big business often uses.

then I thought... who stood to lose money on City of Heroes continuing? Certainly not NCSoft. it was alone in their catalogue as a super-hero MMO. It would not have competed with any of their other products as it attracted an entirely different audience than lineage, guild wars, etc. Nieither would it have been a threat to existing MMO titles, other than Champions, which was already a second class citizen in the MMO world, lagging behind even NC Soft and definitely not even on the same planet as Blizzard.

BUT. DC and Marvel. or more properly, Warner Brothers and Disney. At the time of the closing of City, both had plans to launch or retool their super-MMOs.

Suddenly it all made perfect sense. The silence. The refusal to discuss or negotiate with the community. The doubletalk about what was or was not done regading the game's future. The sudden reversal on the decision to take Paragon Studios independent.

If the decision wasn't about whether or not City's assets could be better utilized elsewhere, and it wasn't about getting out of the western MMO arena all together... what if it was all about taking a fall? What if Blizzard, or Warner, or Disney heard that NCSoft was considering divesting Paragon Studios, and then said "Hey, if you kill it outright we'll slide you a not-inconsiderable amount of money under the table." Then NCSoft gets a fast infusion of cash, and whichever company made the offer sees its largest competitor in the super-MMO genre just evaporate. Even if it wasn't done as a company decision, but just paying off one or two executives to be obstructionist to any such deals to sell off paragon...

how many of us have tried, or outright transferred to Champions, Marvel Online or DCUO? think about the swell in eyeball traffic and actual money those three games enjoyed in the year since Paragon closed. even if its only for one month, and even if its only freebie players, it's still "new user traffic" that can be counted on the books.

Sure it all sounds paranoid, but it also makes a hell of a lot of business sense compared to the theory that it was just a long series of bad business decisions and ass-covering.

[Omega Mark V]

And notice that this whole thread has not really replied to the OP's question.

I haven't heard any news myself.

[Eoraptor]

ahem, yes, sorry... no, no one has gotten an official reply from Google so far as I am aware, and considering their corporate focus is around Android, Plus, and Glass right now, I would not expect one either.

[alphajaybo]

I wish they would at least release the ip to the community or at least make some effort to  sell it. even though they have said no there may still be a chance.....

also that totally makes sense. why compete with the best super hero mmo ever when you can just pay the publisher to remove it from the super hero mmo scene

[healix]

There is always a chance...I truly believe we will once again fly the skies of Paragon....together
If you're passionate about something then it will definitely work out for you. You should never stop believing in something, and you shouldn't listen to anyone who tells you otherwise. Never give up on something you love.

[alphajaybo]

There is always a chance...I truly believe we will once again fly the skies of Paragon....together
If you're passionate about something then it will definitely work out for you. You should never stop believing in something, and you shouldn't listen to anyone who tells you otherwise. Never give up on something you love.

yeah i know basically i stopped playing in late 2008-early 2009. damn i wish i had got to play during the free to play model would have still bought things ect. either way from what i played it was a amazing game

[goodtime]

So... any news from Google? 

[Joshex]

Friends, I wouldn't worry about the game being stagnant if/when it comes back.

all it really needs is advertisement.

heck it's had Eric Cartman's business policy for nearly 2 years now. "you can't play" this will make people beg for a chance to pay to play lol.

[LaughingAlex]

You know, a rather paranoid thought occurred to me just the other day. 

Nothing that NCSoft has done makes business sense regarding CoH. They say they are killing it as part of "a strategic realignment" to focus on the asian market, and then turn around and get right into bed with the west less than a year later. They say they tried to sell it, but then later come out and say nothing has been decided. They kill the project and then don't reassign any of the assets, including 80 odd talented designers who could at the very least have done remote work on their other games for them. they divest themselves of any money they could have made on the IP or the engine by re-purposing it... but then, are completely uninterested in even making fast cash on the sale of those assets.

It seems like the text book on what NOT to do in big business, even using the sociopathic mindset that big business often uses.

then I thought... who stood to lose money on City of Heroes continuing? Certainly not NCSoft. it was alone in their catalogue as a super-hero MMO. It would not have competed with any of their other products as it attracted an entirely different audience than lineage, guild wars, etc. Nieither would it have been a threat to existing MMO titles, other than Champions, which was already a second class citizen in the MMO world, lagging behind even NC Soft and definitely not even on the same planet as Blizzard.

BUT. DC and Marvel. or more properly, Warner Brothers and Disney. At the time of the closing of City, both had plans to launch or retool their super-MMOs.

Suddenly it all made perfect sense. The silence. The refusal to discuss or negotiate with the community. The doubletalk about what was or was not done regading the game's future. The sudden reversal on the decision to take Paragon Studios independent.

If the decision wasn't about whether or not City's assets could be better utilized elsewhere, and it wasn't about getting out of the western MMO arena all together... what if it was all about taking a fall? What if Blizzard, or Warner, or Disney heard that NCSoft was considering divesting Paragon Studios, and then said "Hey, if you kill it outright we'll slide you a not-inconsiderable amount of money under the table." Then NCSoft gets a fast infusion of cash, and whichever company made the offer sees its largest competitor in the super-MMO genre just evaporate. Even if it wasn't done as a company decision, but just paying off one or two executives to be obstructionist to any such deals to sell off paragon...

how many of us have tried, or outright transferred to Champions, Marvel Online or DCUO? think about the swell in eyeball traffic and actual money those three games enjoyed in the year since Paragon closed. even if its only for one month, and even if its only freebie players, it's still "new user traffic" that can be counted on the books.

Sure it all sounds paranoid, but it also makes a hell of a lot of business sense compared to the theory that it was just a long series of bad business decisions and ass-covering.

Honestly I don't think NCSoft could hide such a thing forever if they ever did.  I say you are paranoid, but if they did it'd work in our favor; they and the competition bribing them to do so would have slit their own throats for it when they get discovered.

[Surelle]

So... any news from Google?

None.

[JaguarX]

i kinda agree on the fact that why gain 15 million when they earn 600 million anyway. also please say if im wrong or not but if they sold it they wouldn't be able to use the games core system and how its run ect. so technicaly they could sit on it for a couple of years and then make a new game out of its system?

basically.

Once they sell it, it will be a lost asset. Unless who ever they sell it to agree to cut them in, which given the first few years of potentially already slim profits, probably not many are going to bite on that especially on a game that even at peak raked in only 15 million a quarter and at the end made only about 2 million a quarter but probably require a couple of million to get going again on top of staff to figure out the code and tech support, infrastructure, and the purchase cost and marketing. The buyer may break even within 5-7 years without having to break NCSoft in on and if they do, the time for breaking even may be even longer. All of this assuming mot return like nothing even happened which is not likely at least for the first few months given the now distrust of big companies, which are the only ones able or rather might be willing to spend that type of dough and take those type of risks.

But again I'm getting kind of curious about how it's going with the google thing but as mentioned in another thread it might take a while and we might never hear anything of it until it's already done or nothing every happens. I don't think and what I gathered from past responses about it is that the "insiders" don't have that deep of inside scoop and have to wait for the word if any like the rest of us on the outside. I'm sure someone know someone that know someone that know someone that said something but cant repeat it because of some NDA (which is by definition is already violated if they tell them, the "insider", in the first place, especially if they announce that some one under NDA told them something that fall under the NDA) that prevent them from passing on the info. :p

It's one of those things of wait and see what happens. It was a slim chance to begin with so if nothing come of it, no biggie. That was the most likely outcome to begin with.

Side note- on the personnel side, cleaning house only to gather some more happens quite often in business. ANd contrary to popular belief, most major corporations are not single track minded on fast cash. When they get that huge, it's more thinking of in the long run and weighing instant cash now or potentially more cash down the road. Growth.

Im not sure about the how large the swell in cash the other super hero games got. Seems like a lot of people tried it and then left it alone as it didn't fill the void. I think some had a small increase if that, but probably not a mass swell in population. Especially CO. Then again, the killing of COH probably was more of a side effect than direct killing, and the true target probably was paragon studios. A lot of that personnel been with NCSOFt for many years. Now sometimes a company clean house kill one, and eventually reform something else in it's place.

What NCSOFt did is actually very common in the business world. Ask the mass of people that been laid off in the past 5 years because the company wanted to trim fat, or hire people that will do the same job for less or so they can cleanly move operations whether to another state or to another country. And sometimes they do it because they want to start new policy or way of handling management without risking lawsuits from changes due to contract wording. It's easier to rid them all, then write new policy then hire new people under the new policy or way of doing things. The gov. is notorious for doing that with contracts. Sometimes when they want to change something as simple as hours, say instead of working from 9-5 they want it to be from 10-3 to save money, but it would take a lot of work to change it. So they simply cancel contract or allow to expire, write up new one, and hire new company under the new contract of 9-6. Which then put the old people out of work over a matter as simple as a few hour change.

[mixedemotions]

I will never give up hope on CoH, that first day back to Paragon will be just as sweet as the first. Please Google say Yes.. 

[OzonePrime]

I will never give up hope on CoH, that first day back to Paragon will be just as sweet as the first. Please Google say Yes.. 

Same here!

[healix]

AMEN...I believe we will get it back.

[alphajaybo]

I hope we get some news as to whats happening soon hopefully it will be good news .

[Floride]

Suddenly it all made perfect sense. The silence. The refusal to discuss or negotiate with the community. The doubletalk about what was or was not done regading the game's future. The sudden reversal on the decision to take Paragon Studios independent.

You want to solve any mystery ever? 3 words - Follow the Money. .
Throughout CoH's history only one company ever tried to kill CoH. Marvel, back in 2004, filed copyright infringement in California. In 2007 (not 2005 as heavily reported) NC and Marvel met behind closed doors and resolved the matter out-of-court.

The terms of the settlement were never released.

Much of Marvel's evidence was inadmissible because Marvel themselves had logged in to CoH and created a Hulk, Wolverine, etc. It was the players who were committing "infringement" not NC, who was acting as just a service provider, and protected under the DMCA.
I believe Marvel was finally ready for Beta and called NC and said "Remember our agreement? You can make all the cash you want until we're ready, building a player base for us in the process? We're ready, kill it now." Or something to that affect.

NC's reaction was as swift and as complete as any legal compliance. A mildly profitable game with a steadily growing playerbase that they are legally forbidden from ever profiting from again. I believe the settlement forbids them from hosting it, selling it, or even disclosing the terms of the settlement itself.

I know there's many who will quote this-and-that and claim I'm wrong because they remember blahblahblah.
Decide for yourself, read what I've read, the actual court documents and exhibits - https://www.eff.org/cases/marvel-v-ncsoft

FYI - in 2004 Marvel owned over 1800 character copyrights, some in current publication, but most not. Chances are your main toon was very similar to some character Marvel owned and could prosecute you for.
Just my 2 cents. Hope the Google thing works out. I'd love nothing more than to be very, very wrong about this.

Edit: Marvel owned 18,000 not 1,800 copyrighted characters. My bad.

[Aggelakis]

*passes Floride one of Joshex's (or maybe it's one of JaguarX's) tinfoil hats*

[Floride]

*passes Floride one of Joshex's (or maybe it's one of JaguarX's) tinfoil hats*

Infidel! Unbeliever! Your kind will work the fields when the lizard men come to powe--Oooh! A shiny hat! Sweet, Thanks!

[SARobb]

Infidel! Unbeliever! Your kind will work the fields when the lizard men come to powe--Oooh! A shiny hat! Sweet, Thanks!

lol... best ever comeback.

[JaguarX]

*passes Floride one of Joshex's (or maybe it's one of JaguarX's) tinfoil hats*

I knew I was missing a tin foil hat. I been looking all over the place for it.

[mixedemotions]

 It's not about the hat, it's about the shiny !! ha ha

[Cinnder]

LOL re: hats, but as regards the OP, remember that we, i.e. Titan Network and friends, won't hear if a buyer is interested.  An interested buyer will contact NCSoft, and for obvious reasons keep things quiet until a resolution is reached one way or another.  We really don't amount to anything more than the general public in the eyes of these companies -- prospective customers, perhaps, but not involved in the sale in any way -- so we wouldn't hear anything before a public announcement were ready.

So, don't give up hope just because we have not heard anything.  Maybe the idea didn't catch Google's fancy, but we really wouldn't have heard at this point if it had.

[goodtime]

LOL re: hats, but as regards the OP, remember that we, i.e. Titan Network and friends, won't hear if a buyer is interested. 

If that's the case, then it's time to move onto the next pitch and try another company. 

[Spellcaster Hana]

Any update or news about Google yet? Honestly, I want them to save COX but all this waiting is making me antsy...   

[healix]

I remember Victoria Victrix saying that there was a whole list of contacts that were being wooed. She, along with others here are working behind the scenes to try and get our city back, I am sure. It is hard to sit here and just wait, but try to keep spirits and faith up.

[Angel Phoenix77]

according to a poster on savecityofheroes on facebook, cryptic is working with google to get city of. look for a post from a tony ranchich

[LaughingAlex]

I saw it to.  I am hopeful, the reason being I know some devs such as positron had been working at cryptic.  This could be a good thing for us.  Before anyone worries to much remember PWE had, along with cryptic, decided to create the studio cryptic north and transfer CO over to that studio.  So CO wouldn't be getting the shaft all the time.  Perhaps CoX will get the attention it needs to get new stuff like it used to, or at least close to that.

[Angel Phoenix77]

I hope youre right alex

[OzonePrime]

That would be, waaaaaay, too cool!

[Thunder Glove]

It's easy for anyone to appear out of nowhere and say "I heard from a good source who I can't name that yadda yadda yadda", but I wouldn't count on it being even remotely true, not without some confirmation from people I already trust.  (Or without identifying this Tony Ranchich as someone I already trust, but the name's not familiar)

Of course, I want it to be true, so I'll keep my fingers crossed anyway.

[Eoraptor]

Yeah... doubley so if it came from facebook. I'm sorry, but I have an abysmally dim view of the type of person who frequents facebook. And antics like this are why. There's no logical reason why cryptic, who has nothing to do with City of Heroes, and Google, who never did, and who don't share any common business interests, would be working together to resurrect a dead game. It's most assuredly some troll seeking t get a rise out of people for whatever reason that people do that sort of thing.

[JaguarX]

Yeah... doubley so if it came from facebook. I'm sorry, but I have an abysmally dim view of the type of person who frequents facebook. And antics like this are why. There's no logical reason why cryptic, who has nothing to do with City of Heroes, and Google, who never did, and who don't share any common business interests, would be working together to resurrect a dead game. It's most assuredly some troll seeking t get a rise out of people for whatever reason that people do that sort of thing.

Because they know people will take it and run with it while they sit back and for amusement see how far it goes.

Why? I don't have the answer to that either. I guess maybe it's entertaining to them like some people like setting up practical jokes and putting it on youtube.

[Aggelakis]

I'm sorry, but I have an abysmally dim view of the type of person who frequents facebook.

I hope you realize that the number of facebook users is beginning to encroach on the number of non-facebook users, especially in an online space. So you might want to revisit your view.

(I use facebook, TonyV uses facebook, eabrace uses facebook...probably a good third, half, or more of the Titan people and our community members use facebook. Probably a good third, half, or more of every online community uses facebook. As with any online community, there are bad eggs. That doesn't mean the whole community is bad. That's stereotyping and is generally a bad idea. It's where racism stems from, after all.)

[dwturducken]

Ya know, I'm not saying Eoraptor is right, but the more I see Facebook used to spread false rumors and propaganda based on lies or distortions, irrespective of the side of an issue, the more I'm tempted to leave Facebook behind in the interest of my blood pressure.

[Captain Electric]

Yeah and then you have stuff like this.




Content sharing services like Facebook, Google+ and Livejournal are completely neutral, and your user experience is based on your own account usage. What that means is that someone who has carefully crafted their shared circles and content feeds will have a vastly different experience than the one you describe. I learned this a long time ago: I'm responsible for my own experience. If you leave Facebook behind, what you are more accurately doing is leaving your own pancakey Facebook circle behind. Those with better circles and experiences will continue to not know what you're going on about. I know the first mistake people make: thinking they need 800 "friends."

If this sounds terse, it's only because I can't do the editing-for-diplomatic-words I do on almost every post. I gotta leave for work, but I just wanted to say: I've been where you're at on various content-sharing services, more than once; and what I did was, I took responsibility for the quality of my experience.