Author Topic: Zoey's attempt at being Journalist  (Read 3279 times)

ZoeyLovecraft90

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Twisted Toon

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Re: Zoey's attempt at being Journalist
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2013, 02:59:49 AM »
I disagree with your first two points.

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1. Emptiness
From my experience I'd say that seven out of ten MMOs out there have a very low population.
It's no fun soloing through a game that was meant to be multiplayer.
Personally, I enjoyed being on the less populated servers in CoH. That meant that there were fewer people interrupting my fun as I soloed the content. Granted most of the content was instanced. However, there were quite a few missions that were defeat x in the great outdoors. It almost always irritated me when someone else came swooping in to assist me in my combats by defeating the enemies that I was fighting. I didn't ask them for help, and quite frankly, I didn't need or want their help. In the cases that I saw someone in over their heads, I didn't jump in to attack their opponents. Instead, I buffed them (the player's character, not the opponents).

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2. Solo friendliness
This is the one that's angering me the most. Some how over time game developers have lowered the difficulty settings in their games to make it more solo friendly. This erases the need for teaming up to complete a common goal and therefore erases the need for communication between players and ultimately eradicates the need for a good and helpful community. It affects other areas of gameplay as well. I'm a healer. It's what I do. I love playing support. I'd go even as far to say that I'm respected for this. Unfortunately there's not one MMO out there anymore whose play style requires a healer class. There's even games coming out with mechanics specifically built on the idea that no one wants to play or have a support class. No teamwork.
City of Heroes (and villains...and Rogues) was solo friendly almost from the start. Any AT could do any of their missions by themselves. That doesn't mean that it was easy, mind. But, they could do it solo. It just got easier later on in the game's life-span. That opened up the game for more types of players to play. You see, I really don't like PuGs. When I teamed, it was usually with a small dedicated group. At one time, we actually had 9 whole people in the SG. Once, we even had all 9 of them online at the same time. Since I was the stand-in member, I soloed that day with Agent Standin (See what I did there?). I didn't mind doing that at all. Usually, though, I did team with them on Agent Nights. That was about the only time that I did team. Except for the very few, very rare occasions, when someone actually sent me a tell asking for assistance with a mission, or I wanted to do a TF and none of my SG mates were available. I never ever ever accepted blind invites. Which, I seemed to get a lot of on the the more populated servers.

Teaming should never be required in order to progress in a game. The incentive for teaming should be that it is fun to do so. CoH made teaming fun, not mandatory (With the, understandable, exception of TFs and iTrials). A character could progress from level 1 to the level cap without ever teaming up while doing their own missions. In fact, I had a few characters that had managed to make most of that journey solo. The only time Searing Rose ever teamed up was to do TFs. That only netted her a couple of levels, tops.

All of your points are made from the view point that servers with massive numbers of people running around getting into each others way is desired by everyone that plays MMOs. I can tell you that it is not. Also, CoH was vastly different than any other MMO out there because it catered to more than one style of play. If MMOs are dying, it would be because they only cater to one play style. As a result, they leave a lot of would-be players out in the cold, looking for a game that works for them.

Why NCSoft didn't advertise CoH more and exploit the multiple play-style angle, I'll never know. With proper Advertising, I seriously think that CoH could have given WoW a run for its money. Despite CoH being in a niche genre and WoW having the advantage of being made by Blizzard.

Anyway, you wanted my thoughts. Those were the ones that I figured were most pertinent to the article.
I didn't think you'd want my thoughts concerning the spareribs I had for lunch, or my distaste for plain water.  :)
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ZoeyLovecraft90

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Re: Zoey's attempt at being Journalist
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2013, 03:37:45 AM »
If you're playing a "Massively Multiplayer Game" to solo and get irritated when other team work with you i'd say you're playing that game for the wrong reasons.

Thunder Glove

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Re: Zoey's attempt at being Journalist
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2013, 03:54:51 AM »
You can enjoy it for the lore, the mechanics, the story, or other aspect of gameplay that don't involve teaming.  While I did enjoy teaming in CoH, I loved all those other things about it, too, more than any other game I've ever played in my entire life.  I'd play a single-player version of CoH in a heartbeat, because first and foremost I liked it as a game (and if I hadn't, I wouldn't have stuck around as long as I did, community or no community).

Just because a game is multi-player doesn't meant you have to be playing with a dozen other people 100% of the time.

ZoeyLovecraft90

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Re: Zoey's attempt at being Journalist
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2013, 03:58:43 AM »
I suppose it may have something to do with me being a healer main.. Really no fun soling a healer with no one to heal :(
I've had a hell of a time in other games with healer classes.. No one to heal because no one teams :(

Tacitala

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Re: Zoey's attempt at being Journalist
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2013, 04:17:58 AM »
Mastermind (critter of your choice) + pain manipulation = heal your pokemon mastermind pets as they make their way though your opponents.

I didn't play in teams often- usually in a duo or maybe a trio if I did.  My main draw to the game was the wildly customizable character classes and much of the official story (I had mixed feelings on some of it).  It was nice to have a game that didn't force me in to teaming- some days I just wanted to sit back quietly and play alone.  I'm a bit of an introvert in general, though.
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pewlagon

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Re: Zoey's attempt at being Journalist
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2013, 04:48:48 AM »
I agree with Twisted Toon on the need for MMOs to have solo friendly leveling content. The reason I left Everquest FOR City of Heroes was because I had to wait for my friends to log in or pray I got a good PuG. Over the course of a month I read an entire novel with the wait time I had in EQ and I was part of an active group. Along comes CoH and I could level, uninterrupted, to max level. Sure, it was faster leveling in a group, but if I lacked the time I could log in, say Hi to a few friends, do a couple door missions, and then log out.

There needs to be a balance and CoH provided it with Trials/Task Forces and Zone Events. Yeah, I know some people abused the IOs and built characters that could solo anything, but that wasn't me. I was an altaholic and simply wanted to get a character leveled so I could make a new concept.

General Idiot

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Re: Zoey's attempt at being Journalist
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2013, 07:34:17 AM »
CoH also provided it by making all the missions scale for however many people you took into them. So all solo content doubled as team content, thus removing the issue most MMOs have where if you want to team you're limited to the same five or six dungeons over and over again.

Floride

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Re: Zoey's attempt at being Journalist
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2013, 08:08:10 AM »
I don't agree with the idea that they're fading away.
Final Fantasy Reborn's recent launch issues are
1) A prime example of the demand for good MMO's.
2) A prime example of how Consoles are dramatically changing what people expect of MMO's, who's playing them, and how often.

i.e. - I can't see most people on a PS3 sticking through to the end of a 6 hour Dr. Quarterfield TF.

BTW- Very well written! I may disagree with you, but it was refreshing reading an article void of grammatical errors like those which permeate NYT, AP, Reuters, Brietbart, etc. Kudos! (Well, I found ONE, but now I'm just nit-picking  :))
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Twisted Toon

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Re: Zoey's attempt at being Journalist
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2013, 09:57:00 PM »
If you're playing a "Massively Multiplayer Game" to solo and get irritated when other team work with you i'd say you're playing that game for the wrong reasons.
I didn't play CoH to solo. I played CoH because I really enjoyed playing a Super Hero game that allowed me to play characters of my own design. If I wanted to play Green Lantern, I would play Green Lantern on my xBox 360. If I wanted to play Iron Man, I'd play the Iron man game for the PC. If, however, I wanted to play Disposalbot 2000, I would log into City of Heroes and sweep the trash off the streets. As I said before, I did team on City of Heroes. Mainly it was with the small group of people that I knew. I cold anticipate what they were going to do and possibly avoid a team wipe. I cant anticipate what anyone on a Pug will do unless I've teamed with them a few times before. Then, it's not really a PuG any more.

I suppose it may have something to do with me being a healer main.. Really no fun soling a healer with no one to heal :(
I've had a hell of a time in other games with healer classes.. No one to heal because no one teams :(
I feel your pain. Nano Crusader is an Electric/Empathy Defender. Not the easiest combination of power-sets to level with, solo. I did team up with my brother half the time I played him. Even managed to join in on taking down Jack in Irons in Croatoa once. But, I don't really make a good "healer" I want to get in on the offensive action too much to sit back and focus on healing, or controlling for that matter. Arilou (Illusion/Force Field) makes a great Conscranker. I remember tanking 2 Paragon Protector bosses and half a dozen LTs and minions while the rest of the team took out a third PP boss and the other half dozen LTs and minions.

I played "support" types, I just didn't usually play them in their support roles. Unless you want to count laying the smack down on the bad guys as support.

My main switched form Arilou to Agent Standin (Human/Dwarf Warshade) somewhere along 2010 or so. Arilou was my first 50, Agent Standin was my third. Cog Caster (Robot/traps Mastermind) was my second 50. I made her when CoV was released. Actually, I made her in CoV Beta...


Ah, fond memories... :)
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Hope ... is not a feeling; it is something you do. - Katherine Paterson

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srmalloy

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Re: Zoey's attempt at being Journalist
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2013, 05:21:13 PM »
I suppose it may have something to do with me being a healer main.. Really no fun soling a healer with no one to heal :(
I've had a hell of a time in other games with healer classes.. No one to heal because no one teams :(

That's actually a little funny. I switched to SWTOR after the CoH servers went dark, and "heals" is probably the most common role I see in chat when someone's trying to get a group together for a Heroic mission, or to go after one of the world bosses, or on the fleets for one of the dailies. And what I've seen in chat and on the forums suggests that, for people queueing into the Group Finder for flashpoints (the Group Finder assembles teams as 1 tank, 2 DPS, and 1 heal), healers have the second-shortest wait after tanks (apparently, DPS characters can sit for hours in the queue sometimes). It's not uncommon to see more "LF heals for [content]" spam in general chat than you would see in CoH for all LFG messages rolled together.

JaguarX

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Re: Zoey's attempt at being Journalist
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2013, 05:43:58 PM »
If you're playing a "Massively Multiplayer Game" to solo and get irritated when other team work with you i'd say you're playing that game for the wrong reasons.

Even the term multiplayer doesnt automatically mean "Teaming is mandatory." In many MMO, it's competition and killing each other instead of teamwork.

While it'; good to have that teaming option it would be a pain to have to wait for team. Even in COH during population lulls, some TFs due to the team requirement wasnt feasible to do in that given time due to lack of interest from other players, espeically the Shard TFs. Thus sometimes the wait could be a long time unless you go with the usual flow and do another speed run and or farm for the thousandth time. While this may be non-issue for someone that know people that know people and their play times always match up and always have same interest at the time, it can be a major pain for new people or people that dont yet have that tight circle or once did but they mostly moved to other games due to various reasons. 

I think COH should have been more solo friendly in that regards and or at least lowered or rid of the team requirement and scaled the TFs.

I'm with ThunderGlove though on the reasons many people play. If COX was a stand alone game or had a solo option for ALL content, I would have easily played until Nov 1 2012 and beyond. While teaming can be nice sometimes it's a pain the butt depending on the people.

One person version of fun is killing the mob and getting good xp.
Another person version of fun is using stealth and SS running to the end and grabbing glowy and exit mish and setting time records.
Another person fun is sitting around chatting and not fighting.
Another person fun is using strict extreme tactics every single mobs with every player playing within their strict defined roles.
Another perosn definition of fun is running into the middle of large mobs and killing anythign that moves in the pure chaos.
Others dont care.
Others is about pure efficiency and mobs are in the way of that.
Other pick a few mish and do them over and over and over and that is fun to them.

 8 people 8 different definitions that sometimes dont mesh well on teams. And depending on how often a person come across others that share their version of fun, it might affect their view on whether playing on teams is worth the trouble. If COX forced teaming in all aspects, it would not have made it beyond isssue 3 if that and probably would have been shut down soon after when Cryptic left.

One reason super hero genre is a niche and might remain a niche is the line of thinking that MMO means everyone should team and like it mentality. With fantasy, guilds, team up barbarian teaming with elves and a fairy to complete quest always been part of the lore. Until recent and besides a few spinoff comics, super heroes always tend to work ALONE. Now put that in mmo world where the major thought is mmo means "must team" with lore that is by standard solo based. Now, that creates a dilemma. You can force heros to team but then how super powered can a perosn be if they cant even take on a villain by themselves? Compared to mainstream heros that have been created, that would make mmo heroes that must team to complete goals, second class and second or third rate citizens. Even Robin soloed successfully from time to time. You mean to tell me, in an MMO, heroes are supposed to be weaker than Robin? If I cant create a hero that can stand on his own two feet without having to gang up on people liek some common street punk, then what is the point of creating a super powered being? Even gang members can jump people.  Then on ther other hand where most people team for rewards and if  it wasnt a requirement or advantage there wouldnt be much point of teaming besides for the hell of it, :P but god forbid people teamed for the hell of it regardless of the advantage and rewards. :P

But really, some people see no point in teaming if there is no greater reward for it, which then cut down on teaming and shrinks the pool of available team goers for those that want to team thus nullifying the point of an MMO in their eyes.

There are plenty of games out there that force teaming and some are overall great games but usually one of the pros and praises of said games usually dont include "I'm so glad they force me to team. It is an MMO afterall and everyone should be forced to team from the time they log on to the time they log off if they plan on doing anything beyond using the game asa live chat forum."
« Last Edit: September 03, 2013, 06:19:00 PM by JaguarX »

Turjan

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Re: Zoey's attempt at being Journalist
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2013, 10:49:11 AM »
An interesting article that touches on some fundamental points in today's game industry.

However I have to agree with the posters who say 'multiplayer' and 'teaming' are not necessarily the same thing. Does anyone remember the space combat MMO Black Prophecy? It was pitched mainly at the Freespace/Tachyon/Freelancer/Privateer audience, and while it did have a teaming facility, pretty much everyone played solo, and when not flying instanced missions or fighting in PvP deathmatches, players only encountered other players parked around space stations, or in open PvP zones, and in the chat channels.

Did that make the game any less of an MMO?
Not at all - in the case of Black Prophecy, there were no classes, so no specific roles (no tanks, healers etc). Everyone was a combat pilot, and their playstyle came down to how they chose to allocate combat skill points and ship gear as they levelled their character. So while it's true that teaming can be at the heart of an MMO, I wouldn't say it's the defining characteristic of all MMOs. MMORPGs though, that's a different matter...

I also don't think the MMO as a genre is 'dying'. I do however believe it's adapting to changes in the market in much the same way as living organisms adapt to changes in their environments. And as with nature, some can't adapt and die out, others adapt to a stimulus that appears stable but then changes again...etc etc.

Bottom line is, the games will go where the money is, just as living creatures go where the energy is. That doesn't necessarily mean quality, or variety, just...success. And generally speaking, the most successful strategies (whether digitial or organic) are generic ones. The 'jack of all trades' solution. i.e. they don't excel at anything, but they do do most things ok.

Specialism is always a high risk strategy - when it works, your specialisation is king of the roost, but it doesn't take much external change to knock a specialist off that top perch. City of Heroes was a specialist game. Of all the MMOs I've played, I've never encountered such a dedicated, driven, and faithful playerbase as I have with CoH. That's pretty much a defining characteristic of the specialist mindset. Generic thinking will quickly move on to some other samey-game, but specialists either can't adapt, or (in our case ;) ) absolutely stubbornly refuse to change, because we know we had something we loved, and we very much want it back thank you very much!

The fault with MMOs in general is as much with the consumers as it is with the manufacturers - just as it is with the film and tv industry. On the one hand, if there's no demand for something, it won't sell. But on the other, demand can be manipulated by simply not offering a large choice.

Or at least that's how it used to be.

Like I said, the MMO genre isn't 'dying' - it's adapting to change. And one such change is one the developers couldn't foresee : social networking. It's ironic really, because while I said earlier that teaming isn't essential for an MMO, Zoey is quite right to stress how important teaming is. But I'm not talking teaming ingame...I mean teaming outside of the gameworld.

There's a new power out there, and it's changing the world. It's not a 'superpower' - it's 'peoplepower'. Why are there so many Kickstarter games projects? Because Kickstarter is the environment where specialists are the norm! The huge publishing companies need generic ideas and games so they can make their profits from wide appeal. But Kickstarter is the laser beam to their floodlight : where the large companies dislike specialist thinking and would crush it if they could, it's the exact target market that Kickstarter projects love.

Adaptation always finds a balance in the end, because a healthy environment needs both generalists and specialists to flourish. Just as the natural world has both cockroaches and Monarch butterflies, so the MMO world will eventually find its own balance between large company products like 'Fantasy Boobclone CXXXVIII' and smaller, specialist titles like...well, like 'City of Heroes' :)