Hope

[mr hobbler]

Hello all.  I do not post but have been reading these forums for a while now.  The closing of the game has been a horrible void in my life.  I loved the game and miss the game very much.  I just want to share a story of hope with you all and here it is. 

I have always been involved with drag racing and restoring cars.  My first car I started bracket racing was a 88 Mustang notchback ( coupe) I had to sell that car and a few years later I bought a 91 Mustang notch.  The car needed a paint job and I hired a friend of a friend to paint it.  So i gave him my car so he could paint it and then bam he fell off the face of the earth.  Nobody knew where he went and he was not talking to anyone either.  So after a year I pretty much wrote the car off and went on with my life. Last Tuesday I received a call from a man who was interested in buying my Mustang.  I asked him a few questions and he explained that the guy who painted the car owed the landlord of the shop he was renting $4000.00 in back rent and he disappeared but left the car there.  He went on saying that the car has been sitting in the parking lot for 6 years and no one knew what to do with the car.  So I was able to get a general location of where the car was called the police and received a call back from the police saying they recovered my car.  I went to the location produced a police report showing that the car was stolen and the title and next thing I knew the car is in my garage.


My point is this if I can get my car back after 7 years, which is pretty much unheard of, we will get out city back.  So we must keep up hope.

[pewlagon]

True! Greatest thing about this community and all the upcoming projects, we still have hope.

[Triplash]

See? Now that's what I'm talkin' about!

Life works in mysterious ways, and sometimes things you thought were lost to you can come back again. Even if you decide to move on with other things in the meantime, don't just give up all hope. Lost things can be found again.

Usually it takes either effort or patience to see that happen. Well we know there are people putting in the effort, so our share of the burden is patience. At the risk of sounding like a fortune cookie... good things come to those who wait.

[OzonePrime]

This! Well said Triplash!

[JaguarX]

See? Now that's what I'm talkin' about!

Life works in mysterious ways, and sometimes things you thought were lost to you can come back again. Even if you decide to move on with other things in the meantime, don't just give up all hope. Lost things can be found again.

Usually it takes either effort or patience to see that happen. Well we know there are people putting in the effort, so our share of the burden is patience. At the risk of sounding like a fortune cookie... good things come to those who wait.

Well said.

Moving on doesn't equal or mean giving up hope. Giving up hope doesn't equal or mean moving on. Many people gave up but haven't moved on and many people moved on, playing other games, doing other hobbies or hobbies they haven't done in a while, but haven't given up hope, contrary to the usual sayings.

Life is full of unknowns, randomness, and other stuff that don't make sense in the structure of a movie or book plot. To me, that is what makes life great. Never know what s going to happen. I'm going to work get paid, come home, but at anytime, I may stumble across a hungry man and give him a dollar and he may remember, or I may get robbed and stabbed and left for dead or both all in one day. In life, most "villains" don't spend all day plotting and monologue about big plans to take over the world. Many just want what is in your pocket  to buy a pack of smokes or just bored or plain wave don't know anyway else to survive.

There is a saying good things come to those that wait. Well ,in some cases. Other and most cases a person have to get up and go get it. They can wait all day and night doesn't mean they will win the lottery if they never get up and go buy a ticket. Or can wait for that a job to magically appear out of no where with a phone call of offering a VP 6 figure a year position if they never fill out an application or work to build their credentials and network. Or everyone can stand around waiting until someone else get the party started. If everyone just wait, then the part wont start until someone tire of waiting and do something. Sometimes nothing comes to people that wait. In other cases, sometimes all a person can do is wait. 

Like the car recovery, man, that is nuts. 95% or more cars are never recovered and if most people sit around waiting but dont move on for their car to be recovered, they will end up dying of natural causes waiting on something that may or probably most likely will not happen. But that doesn't mean in the back of their mind they are not hoping that their car turn up. Sometimes people hope the car never turn up as they got better deal on insurance pay off than trying to sell it or trade it in on their own.

While I'm waiting, what ever happened this joker that is supposed to pay me back from this loan I gave em in 1995? While I'm waiting should I add inflation and interest?

[Omega Mark V]

Great analogy and inspiration, Triplash. It takes time for good things to happen, and when it happens it's all for the best!

[healix]

It is such an honor to share this board with the kind of humans who post here....giving hope and trying to uplift others makes you true heroes. I can't help but think that someday, when our City comes back, our continued faith will be vindicated. The ground will shake with the thunder of united voices yelling, "I told you so!"

[Ironwolf]

My first wife died back in 1994 of cancer and my world came crashing down. I loved her dearly and was married to her for 10 years.

Then 2 years after my wife's death I met a new person who I came to love over time and she had 2 daughters from her husband who had died. I started out just trying to be a good parent to the 2 kids and explained while I was not their dad - I was an adult in the house and would work hard to make them safe and develop them as a person.

Fast forward 18 years and I now have 2 beautiful women I consider my kids - 3 grand children and 1 of which I wrote about here. She has been through the wars with me standing at her side and now she is on the path to healing and attends Sylvan learning to catch her up for all the time lost at school.

I have been told by my wife, both kids and other family members that they would not have imagined getting through life without me all these years. I look back and see that while many hardships and heartbreaks affected me - they made me stronger, wiser and a better person.

When we get our game back - we as a group will not take it for granted again. It won't be that game you just play for a while and come back to it, we lost it once and now we will cherish it all the more. Character is the result of hard work and suffering and we will have earned it in spades.

[healix]

Ironwolf...............I can't even find words....................except, thank you for sharing that.

[TonyV]

My point is this if I can get my car back after 7 years, which is pretty much unheard of, we will get out city back.  So we must keep up hope.

Hear, hear!  These are the stories I like to, well... hear, hear.

[Turjan]

mr hobbler's Mustang story made me think of another car reunion tale, about a Chevy this time. It's one of my favourite stories and I feel it embodies what it means to be 'human'. Never fails to bring a tear to my eye :-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS3SvdWcAks

As long as there is the human spirit, there is always hope!

[healix]

No matter how you are grieving
If you just keep believing...
The dream that you wish
Will come true.



Jimminy was right...

[mr hobbler]

mr hobbler's Mustang story made me think of another car reunion tale, about a Chevy this time. It's one of my favourite stories and I feel it embodies what it means to be 'human'. Never fails to bring a tear to my eye :-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS3SvdWcAks

As long as there is the human spirit, there is always hope!

I watched this story and I have to say I had the same reaction that the father had when he saw his car.  The son said it the best when he said its not the car its the memories. My car is not in the condition of the car in the video mine needs a little love but I am working on it everyday little by little. 

[antarcticaa]

This is the character of our community.  Hopeful.  We still love the game and each other and we support the "titanic" efforts in creating our next game home.  The stories shared here have been exemplary.  I'm recovering from a skull multiple fracture and traumatic brain injury when I should be dead, literally.  It's faith and the determination to see this through that has helped us individually and as a community.  We are STILL heroes.  This is what we do.

[Blackshear]

I think it's a reasonable assumption we will eventually get the game back in some form or fashion.  A sale of the IP would be ideal, as long as the buyer wants an honest revival of the game.  The game's value is only going to go down the longer NCSoft sits on it, so they may eventually be persuaded to part with it.

I would most like to see the game given to the community...IP, server software, source code, the works.  That could be glorious.

[Randomvector]

Next Year in Paragon.

[srmalloy]

I think it's a reasonable assumption we will eventually get the game back in some form or fashion.  A sale of the IP would be ideal, as long as the buyer wants an honest revival of the game.  The game's value is only going to go down the longer NCSoft sits on it, so they may eventually be persuaded to part with it.

And the IP is going to degrade in value much faster if City of Titans funds and opens for play, as that will vacuum up the vast majority of the people who might have gone back to CoH if NCSoft had suffered a massive attack of intelligence and restarted the game.

[Triplash]

Next Year in Paragon.

*raises his tea mug*

Next year in Paragon.

[healix]

I'll drink to that...and if there's a nip in the air, I'll drink that, too!

                       

[johnrobey]

My point is this if I can get my car back after 7 years, which is pretty much unheard of, we will get out city back.  So we must keep up hope.

While I hope it takes substantially less than 7 years, I too hope/expect we'll get CoH back eventually, tho I hope it is sooner rather than later.  Meanwhile, while City of Titans isn't really to roll just yet, I bet it will be tons of fun!  I miss teaming up with my SG mates and City of Titans, when ready, will let me do that, without having to play some fantasy genre MMO.

[Styrj]

Well, I for one am not holding my breath waiting for NCStupid to give us back our game.  As it stands now, I am putting my money on Valiance Online and Heroes and Villains.  I think these two will offer game play closest to CoV.  Although I may be proven wrong, I get the distinct feeling that City of Titans is becoming a money pit.  That said, I will try the FtP version just to see how it plays.

Here's to HOPE!

[Nightwatch]

Well, I for one am not holding my breath waiting for NCStupid to give us back our game.  As it stands now, I am putting my money on Valiance Online and Heroes and Villains.  I think these two will offer game play closest to CoV.  Although I may be proven wrong, I get the distinct feeling that City of Titans is becoming a money pit.  That said, I will try the FtP version just to see how it plays.

Here's to HOPE!

Why would you think City of Titans is becoming a money pit?

[Illusionss]

Well, I for one am not holding my breath waiting for NCStupid to give us back our game.  As it stands now, I am putting my money on Valiance Online and Heroes and Villains.  I think these two will offer game play closest to CoV.  Although I may be proven wrong, I get the distinct feeling that City of Titans is becoming a money pit.

Please point me to the game that is NOT a "money pit." These games are not cheap to make, the least expensive of them will probably end up costing a million+. By that criterion we could have called CoX a huge money pit.

CoT will probably turn out to be a lot cheaper than that, because no one is making a salary. Money pit: whut....?

[Segev]

Just in response to City of Titans being a "money pit:" This is actually the first time we've looked for any amount of serious funding. We've had a very small - I'm talking less than many people make in a month - budget that has stretched since January. With the Kickstarter, we'll have the first disbursal of major funds towards actual investment in tools and the like that we can use to produce this game.

Now, maybe I am not reading your definition of "money pit" correctly, but to me, the term implies that money has already been thrown at it, and more and more is being asked for to try to salvage what's already been spent and come up short. By that definition, we can't yet be a money pit: we haven't had the initial investment. We have every intention of avoiding becoming one. We know what this ask-for is to go to, and we have plans to start making money in order to boot-strap from this to the rest of the project. There are other avenues we may pursue, as this KS opens doors for us, but for right now, I don't think the term "money pit" can legitimately be applied to our project.

[mr hobbler]

I don't see a money pit.  I see a opportunity for all of us to get back and play together again.  Rome was not built in a day nor was anything else.  It takes time and effort and money to create something and we need to give them a chance.  If for whatever reason it does not work ask yourself this could you have done better ?  If you can then why are not doing it ? When it does work out we will have a city to run in, isn't this what we are wanting anyway ?  So I have always had this philosophy of good things come to those who wait.  I check these boards everyday to see if I can play again and in my heart I know that day will come.

[healix]

[Styrj]

Like I said, I sincerely hope I am wrong about TPP, and that they prove to be as good or better than HaV or Valiance Online.  Also, I'm really looking forward to the new upcoming build for Valiance Online.

[Segev]

I'm not faulting you for choosing in what to put your hopes. I just am curious why you believe "money pit" to be an accurate description, as I'd hope to be able to convince you otherwise (and definitely want to know what concerns people have).

[LadyVamp]

I believe I understand why some may think of this as a money pit.

Any project of such magnitude takes a lot of up front cash unless it has one thing.  But even so, it will still take considerable cash before it's able to begin generating cash and start its long trek towards profitability.  These projects of ours do have that one thing which does lessen but not eliminate the start up money.  That one thing is volunteers.  The programming staff, artisans, musicians, sound people (sorry don't know all the lingo), business managers, project managers, and support staff.  All volunteers as far as I know.  Still, considerable cash will be needed to publish the project and support it.

But let me ask anyone who believes this is a money pit a couple of questions.  If it is indeed a money pit, why did NCSoft publish it, later buy it, and build an entire division dedicated to maintaining it?  And, why did it take them 8 years to kill it if it is a money pit?

Several high level people on this site have looked at the finances this game produces for NCSoft and all have come to the same conclusion that a perfectly fine, money producing game was killed for no good reason.

[JaguarX]

DOnt forget the view of money pit varies. And not always negative connotation per se.

For some COX was a money pit afterit got kileld off. 8 years of putting in and in the end nothign to show for it- money pit.

Others a money pit is something that takes up lot of cash but the returns dont seem worth that cash.

To some money pit is something that is expensive that doesnt actully grow the money beyond what they put in. Like some say Consoles are games even though they get great enjoyment, but those hundreds are gone even if they pawn the console they wont get their money back and still put money into the pit. AKA no matter how much thye put in whether $10 or $8,000 on vast game collection they wont get monetary value back.

And some still tie in with the prior one, think anything that isnt an investment that have actual returns, including all forms of donations are money pits.

And there probably are more that I havent thought of off the top of me head.

[Whyaylooh]

But let me ask anyone who believes this is a money pit a couple of questions.  If it is indeed a money pit, why did NCSoft publish it, later buy it, and build an entire division dedicated to maintaining it?  And, why did it take them 8 years to kill it if it is a money pit?

Not a valid series of questions.  NCSoft didn't publish City of Titans; it published City of Heroes.  And before you say, "Same thing," 1.) no, it isn't, and 2.) it's no more nor less the "same thing" as Valiance or Heroes & Villains, which TDGeorge has stated as having no problem with.  So, it's not the genre that TD sees as a money pit, but that particular project.

The more appropriate question may be, from a business/financial perspective, what makes him think that Valiance and Heroes & Villains have it together better than City of Titans does?

[Illusionss]

Like I said, I sincerely hope I am wrong about TPP, and that they prove to be as good or better than HaV or Valiance Online.  Also, I'm really looking forward to the new upcoming build for Valiance Online.

I have yet to see that either HaV or Valiance Online are anywhere near Kickstarting those projects, so I'm confused as to why you think those games are less of a "money pit" than CoT. Its not even *possible* to throw money at those two games yet, unless I am really missing something.

Cot is our next best hope on the road to getting our avatars back from the dead. If giving them money helps that to happen, I will walk right up to the edge of the money pit and hurl cash in.

Hobbler: I don't see a money pit.  I see a opportunity for all of us to get back and play together again.  Rome was not built in a day nor was anything else.  It takes time and effort and money to create something and we need to give them a chance.  If for whatever reason it does not work ask yourself this could you have done better ?  If you can then why are not doing it ? When it does work out we will have a city to run in, isn't this what we are wanting anyway ?  So I have always had this philosophy of good things come to those who wait.  I check these boards everyday to see if I can play again and in my heart I know that day will come.

PREACH

[Twisted Toon]

Whozawhahuh? 


Translation: Eye are cornfuzzled about teh MWM projekt beeing a munee pit, but knot teh uther two projekts. pleez eksplane?


Translation of the translation: Could you please explain your reasoning behind why TPP by MWM is considered (to you) a money pit, and not the other successor projects? I, and I am sure others here, are confused by your statement.

[JaguarX]

Whozawhahuh? 


Translation: Eye are cornfuzzled about teh MWM projekt beeing a munee pit, but knot teh uther two projekts. pleez eksplane?


Translation of the translation: Could you please explain your reasoning behind why TPP by MWM is considered (to you) a money pit, and not the other successor projects? I, and I am sure others here, are confused by your statement.

Just guessing here, I guess maybe it's because they havent opened up to funding yet. *shrugs*

Me personally, again me personally, once more me personally think overall they all are on about the same level of completeness. Just some have a bit more to show in certain areas than others.

[Taceus Jiwede]

Money pit?  When did necessary funds become a bad thing?  When did funding become a money pit.  So perhaps if you dug a pit, and then said all the money we throw in here is going to go to funding the game then yes its a money pit.  Just like every other investment made ever in the history of ever.  Why is it when something gets money so a team can focus on what they do it becomes a bad thing.  Id rather these guys have money thrown at them, more then they know how to spend.  That way they can spend all their time doing what they want to do.  The best way to keep doing what you love as often as you can, is to get paid for doing what you love.  See how that makes sense?  Money is necessary to fund and keep a game going.  The world runs on money remember?  There is no shame in paying for something you like, and there is nothing wrong with making money for doing something that you love well.  I will play all 3 of the successors.  And I happily donated to MWM.  But if anyone expects these projects to go anywhere without funding then they are delusional

[JaguarX]

Money pit?  When did necessary funds become a bad thing?  When did funding become a money pit.  So perhaps if you dug a pit, and then said all the money we throw in here is going to go to funding the game then yes its a money pit.  Just like every other investment made ever in the history of ever.  Why is it when something gets money so a team can focus on what they do it becomes a bad thing.  Id rather these guys have money thrown at them, more then they know how to spend.  That way they can spend all their time doing what they want to do.  The best way to keep doing what you love as often as you can, is to get paid for doing what you love.  See how that makes sense?  Money is necessary to fund and keep a game going.  The world runs on money remember?  There is no shame in paying for something you like, and there is nothing wrong with making money for doing something that you love well.  I will play all 3 of the successors.  And I happily donated to MWM.  But if anyone expects these projects to go anywhere without funding then they are delusional

Indeed, but from the looks of it, they don't have to worry about getting paid. They are all unpaid volunteers remember?

So I guess that ton of cash now and later should be going 100% to the development costs

[Segev]

You can see on our KS page an explanation where all that money is slated to go. "Development costs" might mean different things to different people, so I will point those who are interested to the KS page and let them make their own determination. Personally, I would define pretty much anything spent towards making the game happen - including, if we had them budgeted, salaries for employees - as "development costs."

However, we do not currently have employee salaries budgeted into what we're asking for. We do hope we can eventually pay some people so that we aren't forever relying on people giving up their nights and weekends for this project; it's draining at best, and we could get a lot more done if some of our developers could afford to spend their "day job" time on this instead of doing this in their off hours. But again, that's something down the line. We are not asking for that at this time, and we hope to not HAVE to "ask" for that but rather to be able to simply do it because we're so successful.

But for now, JaguarX is right: we're all unpaid volunteers, and that is an enormous cost we aren't having to seek funds to cover at this time.