Author Topic: A few suggestions regarding the new CoH game design  (Read 36638 times)

Golden Girl

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Re: A few suggestions regarding the new CoH game design
« Reply #40 on: October 01, 2013, 11:32:08 PM »
The respawn in HaV is similar to Rest in CoH - you're in a recovery position while your green and blue bars refill.
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PSI-on

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Re: A few suggestions regarding the new CoH game design
« Reply #41 on: October 01, 2013, 11:38:20 PM »
So you would respawn just as soon as you clicked and chose where, but be placed into a mandatory rest situation? Are you protected if you say, respawn right there while your team was still fighting?

EDIT: Either way I actually think this is awesome. It's not a punishment, it's a minor (30 sec) inconvenience and I think that's good, better in fact then some others. To be fair I'd much rather be stuck getting my HP and Stamina back for the time I was out than to spend that time waiting to get up at all. Doesn't give me the feeling of being punished, that's what I look for in defeat events.

The respawn in HaV is similar to Rest in CoH - you're in a recovery position while your green and blue bars refill.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2013, 12:24:19 AM by PSI-on »
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cybermitheral

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Re: A few suggestions regarding the new CoH game design
« Reply #42 on: October 01, 2013, 11:39:21 PM »
Sorry GG but do you mean you are FORCED into a Rest state after respawning or you have the choice to enter the Rest state or continue as you are (half HP/End) and let your standard regen/recover rate get you back up meaning if I chose to I could re-enter the fight?

Golden Girl

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Re: A few suggestions regarding the new CoH game design
« Reply #43 on: October 01, 2013, 11:44:09 PM »
Sorry GG but do you mean you are FORCED into a Rest state after respawning or you have the choice to enter the Rest state or continue as you are (half HP/End) and let your standard regen/recover rate get you back up meaning if I chose to I could re-enter the fight?

The current plan is for it to be enforced - that's where the time penalty comes from.
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Ohioknight

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Re: A few suggestions regarding the new CoH game design
« Reply #44 on: October 02, 2013, 02:31:57 AM »
The thing is, without a time penalty, then defeat wouldn't really take you out of the fight at all - you'd go down, then pop back up again the next second and continue from where you left off, with the only inconvenience being having to reactivate your toggles.
So if I may ask, how are you thinking of handling street crime?  I know you're focusing on missions, but I personally really enjoyed street sweeping and if you just regen where you fell, you'll get creamed by the gang -- and there's no mission start to go to...

For what it's worth, I was predominantly solo playing regen scrappers towards the end because the quick recharge on the res power (and the bonus res's I was picking up) essentially meant I could pop up even in a gang and run away to heal before returning to kick the gang
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Golden Girl

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Re: A few suggestions regarding the new CoH game design
« Reply #45 on: October 02, 2013, 02:56:40 AM »
So if I may ask, how are you thinking of handling street crime?  I know you're focusing on missions, but I personally really enjoyed street sweeping and if you just regen where you fell, you'll get creamed by the gang -- and there's no mission start to go to...

That'll be handled in a similar way to the Safeguard mission respawns, or places like the hazard zone medical areas - you'll be able to respawn at the nearest designated safe spot on the map.
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silvers1

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Re: A few suggestions regarding the new CoH game design
« Reply #46 on: October 02, 2013, 09:32:56 AM »
The current plan is for it to be enforced - that's where the time penalty comes from.

To be honest, I'd rather go with the current respawn in the nearest hospital.   While the penalty time
may end up being the same as traveling from the hospital to the mission door - the "feel" is that you're making
me sit around doing nothing twiddling my thumbs.  I'd rather spend that time actually doing something
( i.e. flying, superspeeding, whatever )  Penalty boxes will annoy the userbase.

Perhaps a compromise .... 1st death = respawn at the mission door with no res penalty.   2nd death and up = respawn at the hospital.
Another idea that I've seen in Neverwinter is "injury kits".  While most players hate money sinks - they are needed to keep the money supply
down over time.

I also hope we arent going to be losing the self res inspirations.
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Nightmarer

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Re: A few suggestions regarding the new CoH game design
« Reply #47 on: October 02, 2013, 09:48:39 AM »
Either the new way GG is proposing or the old hospital respawning way, I feel the time penalty to be a good thing. Even with XP penalty it was annoying enough in CoH when you ended up with an idiot in a TF that tended to get the whole team killed over and over so, a few seconds to calm down some people after death will be welcome.

Relitner

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Re: A few suggestions regarding the new CoH game design
« Reply #48 on: October 02, 2013, 04:57:29 PM »
To be honest, I'd rather go with the current respawn in the nearest hospital.   While the penalty time
may end up being the same as traveling from the hospital to the mission door - the "feel" is that you're making
me sit around doing nothing twiddling my thumbs.  I'd rather spend that time actually doing something
( i.e. flying, superspeeding, whatever )  Penalty boxes will annoy the userbase.

I actually found myself thinking about this while playing CO recently. It felt cheap respawning at the mission enterance. Inspiration strategy, in CoX, was an important part of mission planning... especially the awakens. There was nothing quite like popping an awaken and hoping I wasn't too close to draw aggro while I took a knee. Having to travel back from the hospital not only fit into the story, but it was sometimes more penalty than the xp debt. Some of my most memorable experiences were in the Hollows running around huge groups of trolls and CoT to get to a mission enterance. IMHO, it was an essential part of the CoX experience.
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Golden Girl

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Re: A few suggestions regarding the new CoH game design
« Reply #49 on: October 02, 2013, 06:55:31 PM »
Either the new way GG is proposing or the old hospital respawning way, I feel the time penalty to be a good thing. Even with XP penalty it was annoying enough in CoH when you ended up with an idiot in a TF that tended to get the whole team killed over and over so, a few seconds to calm down some people after death will be welcome.

That's pretty much what we're aiming for with the downtime penalty.
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Golden Girl

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Re: A few suggestions regarding the new CoH game design
« Reply #50 on: October 02, 2013, 07:01:22 PM »
To be honest, I'd rather go with the current respawn in the nearest hospital.   While the penalty time
may end up being the same as traveling from the hospital to the mission door - the "feel" is that you're making
me sit around doing nothing twiddling my thumbs.  I'd rather spend that time actually doing something
( i.e. flying, superspeeding, whatever )  Penalty boxes will annoy the userbase.

One of our general design aims is to reduce the number of loading screens a player encounters during a play session - we're designing a game for a community who had computers that could run a game that started development over 10 years ago, which is a huge gap of time in computer tech terms. We're doing everything that we can to make sure that the minimum requirements are as close as possible to something a CoH player could run on a lower end machine, and reducing loading screens is one of the things we're doing to help achieve this aim.

Quote
I also hope we arent going to be losing the self res inspirations.

We have a system of temporary boosts in place that will give a somewhat similar effect to CoH's Inspirations.
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cybermitheral

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Re: A few suggestions regarding the new CoH game design
« Reply #51 on: October 02, 2013, 10:55:08 PM »
I agree the CoH style of Hospital rezzing was a pain as if you died on an instanced mission you went through 2/3 loading screens:
1) Res in the Hospital
2) Exit hospital and load the 'zone'
3) Get to mission door and load the mission

If there was an outdoor "sick bay" you only had 2 loading screens. And I think this is the best way forward. All "res points" are not inside a building (unless a specific mission has it in the story). I res at the front door and there is a "pharmacy" or vending machine for Insps that I click on.


PSI-on

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Re: A few suggestions regarding the new CoH game design
« Reply #52 on: October 03, 2013, 12:12:39 AM »
lol, I love the idea of picking up the inspirations, boosts, or whatever at a vending machine. That's a crazy cool idea. I always wanted more little modern stuff like that. Maybe a fast food resturant chain I would see in each zone too. Either it's just for show and I can buy a "meal" there, that's just a little boost :P Fake of course, unless you wanted to leave room to change the signs later for product placement. OH, speaking of which, let me throw this in there.

C. I don't mind product placement at all, IF IT'S DONE RIGHT. Don't just throw up a Nike shoe on a billboard and call it a day, make it feel super. More importantly, don't advertise to me, be clever. I miss the old days of advertisement where they researched the product, the audience, and created something clever for them that would be appealing. You only really see work like that in old episodes of Bewitched....and that was fake. The point? Do not advertise Gaderaid to ME, I am not here and I don't want to be called to. My character is here, advertise to him. Or better yet, to the Citizens.

"You may not have powers, but with Gaderaid you'll feel super." Something like that, or bother to use models or themes from the game itself. If you go about it like you're trying to sell it to the game WORLD instead of the player, it becomes infinitely more interesting, palatable, and clever things stick with you longer and you'll find yourself liking the product, the producer, and telling everyone you talk to about it, instead of just giving negative feedback about it to your gaming friends. If this is too hard for the company to do, I (as the game making company) might ask whenever this came up for the art department (or someone on staff) to take whatever the ad is and make it fit the world, see if they like it, explain why the change, and really I would have made this sort of thing a requirement in the contract from the get go. Either it fits our world or never mind.



I agree the CoH style of Hospital rezzing was a pain as if you died on an instanced mission you went through 2/3 loading screens:
1) Res in the Hospital
2) Exit hospital and load the 'zone'
3) Get to mission door and load the mission

If there was an outdoor "sick bay" you only had 2 loading screens. And I think this is the best way forward. All "res points" are not inside a building (unless a specific mission has it in the story). I res at the front door and there is a "pharmacy" or vending machine for Insps that I click on.
Please don't send blind requests in games to me, I learned to ignore them in CoX, no offense meant. (this is only here until I can figure out how to put it in my actual profile on here.)

GamingGlen

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Re: A few suggestions regarding the new CoH game design
« Reply #53 on: October 03, 2013, 11:20:48 AM »

2.  Reward Grouping -  pick up groups are virtually non-existant in most recent games I've played for normal content. I've always loved PUGs in that you meet new people and the experience ( good or bad ) is always different vs always playing with a static group of friend from your guild.CoH did an excellent job of this and I hope the successor does the same.


No.   

So you are saying "reward ME for MY play style" and punish those who like to solo?

I like to solo.  So why should I be punished for it?   Why should I have to team with a bunch of yahoos, no matter how good or friendly they are, and/or forced to play with trolls and elitists, to get the best rewards?

Teaming with good players and friends should be the reward itself.

cybermitheral

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Re: A few suggestions regarding the new CoH game design
« Reply #54 on: October 03, 2013, 11:28:40 AM »
Reward = The bigger the group the bigger the number of mobs meaning more XP and chance for drops.

Nightmarer

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Re: A few suggestions regarding the new CoH game design
« Reply #55 on: October 03, 2013, 12:53:28 PM »
The chance for drops in groups seems a delicate subject to balance. Since the new difficulty level changes, CoH penalized the drop chance for groups, the more people, the less chance for a drop so I'd like to see some balance, neither soloing nor teaming playstyles should be punished.

JaguarX

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Re: A few suggestions regarding the new CoH game design
« Reply #56 on: October 03, 2013, 01:12:30 PM »
neither soloing nor teaming playstyles should be punished.

yup.

GamingGlen

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Re: A few suggestions regarding the new CoH game design
« Reply #57 on: October 03, 2013, 01:21:50 PM »
Quote from: Nightmarer
neither soloing nor teaming playstyles should be punished.


yup.


yup 2

dwturducken

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Re: A few suggestions regarding the new CoH game design
« Reply #58 on: October 03, 2013, 02:11:34 PM »
City of Heroes had bonuses for larger groups, like getting an arch villain instead of an elite boss. I know that XP came faster in groups, but everything moved faster, too. It was still very enjoyable solo, and that was how I spent most of my time.
I wouldn't use the word "replace," but there's no word for "take over for you and make everything better almost immediately," so we just say "replace."

Nightmarer

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Re: A few suggestions regarding the new CoH game design
« Reply #59 on: October 03, 2013, 03:13:31 PM »
City of Heroes had bonuses for larger groups, like getting an arch villain instead of an elite boss. I know that XP came faster in groups, but everything moved faster, too.

Said bonuses were lost with the new difficulties, you could be solo or with a couple friends and get exactly same number of enemies and an AV exactly as if you were in a full 8 people team.

Also, the larger the team, the less XP you got since, XP per foe decreased per team member to keep it balanced since the more people on team, more enemies to be fought. For some reason, thar decreasing of XP per team member balance remained untouched so the most XP you could get was on a x8 setting for a soloer.

Technically, a full team would take much less time clearing a mission than a x8 soloer, that I found to be true once you got everyone on team inside the mission and ready to go, the difficult task was reaching that point, we've all been there I guess, a couple people leaving so taking a few moments to get replacements, going to trainer to lvl up, bio breaks... all in all, since the difficulty level changes, teaming was punished in both XP and drops except for characters who had trouble soloing while it greatly rewarded playing alone for easy soloing characters and that's what I meant to be avoided on my previous post.