City of Titans Kickstarter oversubscribed

[Segev]

We have been exploring options for allowing people to participate financially post-Kickstarter. I don't think anything like the sort of "escrow account" that was suggested earlier in this thread has come up, and I'm not going to make any official announcements in this thread, but we do have some ideas on this, and we intend to give as much real value for any such contributions as possible.

Depending on just how well the "add ons" for swag sell, we are likely to be working to open a swag store as one such means. No promises (I have not been connected to that side of things lately, so I don't know with the certainty that I would want before making any such promises just how far along that is; last I heard, we expected the transition from "meeting swag distribution requirements for KS" to "open online store" to be more than feasible), but it is quite likely, as it will be a sort-of low-hanging-fruit that does give real value for backing. If you're interested in any of the swag on the KS, please do buy it through backing us there. Not only will that likely be delivered before we get a store up and running (and, if not, it'll be the first things we deliver after doing so), but each new backer increases our "backers" count, so if you're not already backing us but want swag, please buy it that way. More backers translates to a stronger position for our business department when they go to do their job: it proves we have the customer base to truly make this profitable. (What we have already - and what we're immensely thankful for - is proof that our audience is devoted. And that, too, is powerful leverage. But it's a slam dunk if we can prove that it is also very large, because a large base can sustain what can only happen in bursts from a devoted one. And steady stability is the holy grail of the kind of business with which WE want to do business. The kind that will help this be a long-term endeavor that serves its customers for many many years.)

We absolutely intend for there to be means for players to continue playing the game in the event of and after a shut-down. Not that we have any intention of shutting down if it keeps supporting itself! But should it happen for any reason beyond our control, we fully intend for players to be able to keep playing, with or without MWM. The exact method for that is not set in stone, but the rough idea is as discussed on the radio show. It would take something truly monumental for the game to go live and then be shut down in a way that the players could not continue using what had already been produced.

If you want more details that are a little firmer, I recommend finding a recording of the radio interview.

You guys are awesome, and if I seem a bit rambling, it's just because I can't express my awe and gratitude to see this community still going strong like this, and am a bit overwhelmed and humbled by the support this effort is getting. Good work, everybody!

[JaguarX]

We have been exploring options for allowing people to participate financially post-Kickstarter. I don't think anything like the sort of "escrow account" that was suggested earlier in this thread has come up, and I'm not going to make any official announcements in this thread, but we do have some ideas on this, and we intend to give as much real value for any such contributions as possible.

Depending on just how well the "add ons" for swag sell, we are likely to be working to open a swag store as one such means. No promises (I have not been connected to that side of things lately, so I don't know with the certainty that I would want before making any such promises just how far along that is; last I heard, we expected the transition from "meeting swag distribution requirements for KS" to "open online store" to be more than feasible), but it is quite likely, as it will be a sort-of low-hanging-fruit that does give real value for backing. If you're interested in any of the swag on the KS, please do buy it through backing us there. Not only will that likely be delivered before we get a store up and running (and, if not, it'll be the first things we deliver after doing so), but each new backer increases our "backers" count, so if you're not already backing us but want swag, please buy it that way. More backers translates to a stronger position for our business department when they go to do their job: it proves we have the customer base to truly make this profitable. (What we have already - and what we're immensely thankful for - is proof that our audience is devoted. And that, too, is powerful leverage. But it's a slam dunk if we can prove that it is also very large, because a large base can sustain what can only happen in bursts from a devoted one. And steady stability is the holy grail of the kind of business with which WE want to do business. The kind that will help this be a long-term endeavor that serves its customers for many many years.)

We absolutely intend for there to be means for players to continue playing the game in the event of and after a shut-down. Not that we have any intention of shutting down if it keeps supporting itself! But should it happen for any reason beyond our control, we fully intend for players to be able to keep playing, with or without MWM. The exact method for that is not set in stone, but the rough idea is as discussed on the radio show. It would take something truly monumental for the game to go live and then be shut down in a way that the players could not continue using what had already been produced.

If you want more details that are a little firmer, I recommend finding a recording of the radio interview.

You guys are awesome, and if I seem a bit rambling, it's just because I can't express my awe and gratitude to see this community still going strong like this, and am a bit overwhelmed and humbled by the support this effort is getting. Good work, everybody!

Which radio around which date and time?

[Segev]

Sorry, the one Doctor Tyche was referencing, which was (unless my brain's more fried than I think it is) this past Friday on Cape Radio.

I'll double-check with him to make sure I'm recalling the same one that's been referenced.

[Mandrake]

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/theelf/2013/10/11/save-coh-radio

I highly recommend DOWNLOADING the show. If you do, then the rest of what follows applies for sure, plus you get the extra after show content:

Timetable:

Kickstarter Discussion: 26:00
Just getting up from DownUnder Arrives : 28:30
Nate / Doctor Tyche - MWM: 30:55
Dimented Kermit / Ms. Piggy (but no mention of ZModem) discussion begins: 32:00
What's the dough for: 35:00

Break For:
- Scholastic Coders Remorse Theatre by TonyV and friends - 40:00

Back to What's the Dough for: 46:30
A bit about launch stuffs: 52:00
Question - Temp Play Servers: 52:45
Licensing Discussion: 53:20
Question - Combat: 56:10
Questions Block: 56:10

Random nugget of incredibly useless information: 1:02:10

Question Plaid Add On: 1:04:05
Questions Block: 1:08
Merchandise ideas: 1:15:30
Question - Mechanics, Characters 1:23:30

Harvester Joins in - 1:31:15

In Game Economy: 1:33:10
Down with the industry! 1:43:20
WHAT IF?!?!: 1:51:28
What about Cons? 1:56:30

After Party / Server Tech Talk Starts at 2:00:00

[JaguarX]

Good stuff. Yet still, in the what if thing and everyone can keep playing. as usual, it's about teaming and assumption that someone know someone that will pick up the game and flip the switch and run a server.

What about people that put just as much money in, but don't know people that have the server or simply may not trust private ran servers? Are they out flapping and when the game get shut down, they are not included in the math of "everyone will still be able to play?"

[Segev]

I won't say this is gospel, but the last conversation I had about this included ideas for making it possible to "be your own server" so you can play by yourself, or even (and I admit, this is something I would like to do as a "new" project when the game is out and running) releasing actual stand-alone single-player games in the CoT setting. Note, again, that at this point I am discussing some far-off things, post-release, but I personally would like to see such stand-alones serve as potential "gateways" into the MMO proper, as well.

If there is a stand-alone game that tells a solo story, it might spend more time in the lower levels, for example. When you complete it, it allows you to log in to play with that character in the MMO proper.

Note that this is not the only "lifeboat" option on the table, and is one of the more unusual ones, with the "lifeboat" capability it would offer being more structural than a deliberate feature.

...and I fear I'm rambling. Let me put it this way: we intend that, if there's a "flip the switch" thing, the close-down procedures of the game being shut down would include sending out that last patch to anybody who logged in to get it. When they ran the updater on their launcher, as opposed to the fears our community has of having NCSoft mysteriously delete CoH from their computers, the post-shutdown patch would instead BE the flipping of that switch. If needs be, we'd be making a patch that enabled the client to access a server on your own machine.

This is not from a programmer's perspective; this is, however, one of the ways we've been looking at things.

What I hope you take away from this is that we are NOT intending to leave people out in the cold. We ARE looking at ways to make sure that everybody who's invested in the game enough to have a client on their computer can retain the ability to play the game even if MWM isn't around to support it. What the exact form this will take is has yet to be nailed down; we have a number of thoughts and ideas and our tech guys are, as time permits with the other things on their plates, investigating feasibility of each so that we settle on one that has the absolute best chance of going off without a hitch. (The last thing we want is to have this glorious plan in place, and then find out that something prevents us from making it happen for our players! This means we can't say "we're definitely doing it this way" until we know what works.)

[JaguarX]

I won't say this is gospel, but the last conversation I had about this included ideas for making it possible to "be your own server" so you can play by yourself, or even (and I admit, this is something I would like to do as a "new" project when the game is out and running) releasing actual stand-alone single-player games in the CoT setting. Note, again, that at this point I am discussing some far-off things, post-release, but I personally would like to see such stand-alones serve as potential "gateways" into the MMO proper, as well.

If there is a stand-alone game that tells a solo story, it might spend more time in the lower levels, for example. When you complete it, it allows you to log in to play with that character in the MMO proper.

Note that this is not the only "lifeboat" option on the table, and is one of the more unusual ones, with the "lifeboat" capability it would offer being more structural than a deliberate feature.

...and I fear I'm rambling. Let me put it this way: we intend that, if there's a "flip the switch" thing, the close-down procedures of the game being shut down would include sending out that last patch to anybody who logged in to get it. When they ran the updater on their launcher, as opposed to the fears our community has of having NCSoft mysteriously delete CoH from their computers, the post-shutdown patch would instead BE the flipping of that switch. If needs be, we'd be making a patch that enabled the client to access a server on your own machine.

This is not from a programmer's perspective; this is, however, one of the ways we've been looking at things.

What I hope you take away from this is that we are NOT intending to leave people out in the cold. We ARE looking at ways to make sure that everybody who's invested in the game enough to have a client on their computer can retain the ability to play the game even if MWM isn't around to support it. What the exact form this will take is has yet to be nailed down; we have a number of thoughts and ideas and our tech guys are, as time permits with the other things on their plates, investigating feasibility of each so that we settle on one that has the absolute best chance of going off without a hitch. (The last thing we want is to have this glorious plan in place, and then find out that something prevents us from making it happen for our players! This means we can't say "we're definitely doing it this way" until we know what works.)

Yeah  things change. Although I'm kind of curious of how do one find out if shutdown plan actually work without...shutdown.

Either way though, hopefully it don't come down to it about 5-9 years later and development forget to design with stand alone version in mind or worse end up tangled yarn balling the code like one particular company did...twice.

[Mandrake]

Good stuff. Yet still, in the what if thing and everyone can keep playing. as usual, it's about teaming and assumption that someone know someone that will pick up the game and flip the switch and run a server.

What about people that put just as much money in, but don't know people that have the server or simply may not trust private ran servers? Are they out flapping and when the game get shut down, they are not included in the math of "everyone will still be able to play?"

I'm not sure I get your issue. If you have a copy of your game. You have the capability of firing it up and hopping in, playing missions, street sweeping, whatever your favorite pastime is whether someone joins you or not... what is the problem?


I don't see the math problem. Everyone is included. Those that want to spin up the server - or 'create a session' whatever - and invite people to play, and those that just fire up the game and play by themselves. I don't see the difference.

Are you wanting some sort of separately defined game that is adapted somehow so it does not have the 'Multiplayer' button or something?

I'm not trying to be difficult - I just am not grasping what it is you are wanting?

[downix]

All we have to do is *not* remove the headless server flag within the game engine. It may not be an option from the menu, but a command line option.

[JaguarX]

I'm not sure I get your issue. If you have a copy of your game. You have the capability of firing it up and hopping in, playing missions, street sweeping, whatever your favorite pastime is whether someone joins you or not... what is the problem?


I don't see the math problem. Everyone is included. Those that want to spin up the server - or 'create a session' whatever - and invite people to play, and those that just fire up the game and play by themselves. I don't see the difference.

Are you wanting some sort of separately defined game that is adapted somehow so it does not have the 'Multiplayer' button or something?

I'm not trying to be difficult - I just am not grasping what it is you are wanting?

There is no problem just a question for clarification. Originally, as it been stated the game will never die and someone will be able to pick it up and I quote from the radio "Hey I got a server over here and they can invite friends to it." yet again no mention of an actual stand alone which sounded like it would require someone running a private server to play or be part of a private server to play.

In reply to that it was replied that no one is going to be left out and it will be basically a stand alone type game, or rather that is what they are planning or hoping for nothing set in stone.


What I'm hoping for is simply if the game do go under, it don't require getting online finding a server or so and hoping that the server runner is legit and not crooked to play. AKA, it's no longer online I just load it up and play, by myself. And if I wanted to say, hop on someone server I know about I can but my entire gaming schedule not be revolving on when they are online or not. Yeah something like my own self contained mini server to play when ever I want even if it's feb 29 at 230 am on a school night I wont be slowed down in progress due to lack of people.

But looks like they are keeping people who may not have vast network of internet friends in mind too. Which is good.

[mikenovember]

Yeah  things change. Although I'm kind of curious of how do one find out if shutdown plan actually work without...shutdown.

That's actually pretty easy to test if you think about it... and I'm pretty sure that they will. 

For a standalone capability, they'd need to be able to create a set up like with a lot of FPS games - basically like Halo or any number of multiplayer games where one person has acts as a server and the others act as clients.  Not, an optimal solution, but workable. 

You also have to keep in mind the fact they've even put some thought into having that as a solution puts them a long step ahead of things.  Whether that's a technical feasibility or not - it's one they're considering and trying to bake into it from day one.  Not a lot of game dev teams even think consider that kind of thing, and as far as I know, no MMO does as a rule. 

It's kind of contrary to the logic of an MMO to design it with the ability to go standalone, so massive props to the guys for that.

[JaguarX]

That's actually pretty easy to test if you think about it... and I'm pretty sure that they will. 

For a standalone capability, they'd need to be able to create a set up like with a lot of FPS games - basically like Halo or any number of multiplayer games where one person has acts as a server and the others act as clients.  Not, an optimal solution, but workable. 

You also have to keep in mind the fact they've even put some thought into having that as a solution puts them a long step ahead of things.  Whether that's a technical feasibility or not - it's one they're considering and trying to bake into it from day one.  Not a lot of game dev teams even think consider that kind of thing, and as far as I know, no MMO does as a rule. 

It's kind of contrary to the logic of an MMO to design it with the ability to go standalone, so massive props to the guys for that.

wel contrary to the rules established by big corporations that like to hold on to the control and fantasy games of what an MMO is supposed to be.

At one point in time  MMORPG was suppose to mean fanatasy and maybe sci fi based and quests upon quest upon quest and gear that changed appearance. Well well, didn't COX break those rules with super heroes instead of fairies and elves, and gear that didn't change appearance, and more things to than simply grind.

See they set the rule that MMO supposed ot mean that you supposed to have to interact with other people because it was meant to be that in order to progress it entices them to grab more friends so they can play and thus the company makes more money as long as the ykeep the grind cycle going and keep people thinking they must log on because their guild mates need them. ANd no one questions it.   

It still can be Massive, it still can be Multiplayer, and it still can be Online if one chooses without meaning "Must team must team must team. Cant play unless interacting with people must interact must interact, must be social, the guild needs me"

If one chooses they should be able to choose to go online. StarCraft the original one was like this. You could play by yourself, or you could get online and go at it. Not sure about star craft two.

Even GTA series is getting like this, you can go online if one chooses and the online feature, it's is by definition exactly like a MMO nearly. Or you can play alone.


It's way of the future. And remember more player especially if they feel they have a choice, they will play. But for some, not everyone enjoy the constatnt prod of must be social must be social must team must team and even though they may like the game they may not partake because they feel it's a prod to be social all the time everytime. Some people want to take a break from that when playing games. Yes some people love being surrounded by people all day and get bored easily solo, but neither one have to suffer for the favor of one or the other. If one choose to team let them unhindered. If one choose to solo, let them, unhindered. More players broader audience.


Plus I'm simply tired of the same old fantasy like games find great success and riding it because they already had built in fans for it while super hero genre continue to struggle because they are trying to play by the rules of fantasy lore instead of making their own rules and tapping into what super hero lore is really about.

[silvers1]

Well, I chipped in a little bit, hope it helps.

Here's hoping my exclusive travel aura stays exclusive, unlike my pre-order travel aura for CoH. 

[johnrobey]

Thank you, Missing Worlds Media, as well as the Titan Network fans here.  Looking forward to when City of Titans is ready to launch; this looks like it will be really cool and yay! finally a MMO my SG mates agree we'd all like to play!  It will be awesome to team up again with old friends!  /em holdtorch

[Arcana]

It's kind of contrary to the logic of an MMO to design it with the ability to go standalone, so massive props to the guys for that.

Yes and no.

Technologically speaking, I think most MMOs have a way to go "standalone" in some fashion, because they have to.  The realities of development mean your developers must be able to fire up the game, or a substantial fraction of the game, on their own PCs to be able to work and test things, particularly your content developers.  Its not practical to upload everything to test servers to test, and test environments are often staged in the same way as live servers (specifically to replicate and test live environments) which means developers have limited access to them.  So the technical machinery to make this work tends to exist always.

But almost no one pushes those development capabilities forward into a useable state for normal players, because there's no commercial benefit to doing so.  Its extra work that will likely never see the light of day, and development teams are not encouraged to expend a lot of time adding features that will never be commercially leveraged.  So while it tends to exist, it tends to be "tinkery" and not always fully stable and certainly not optimized for the kind of hardware the typical player might have.

But its not a case of starting from zero and creating a stand alone version.  The realities of development force most developers, including Cryptic/Paragon Studios as well as MWM, to get at least half way just out of their own necessities.  After that, its just a matter of making it a priority to go the last mile.

This is specifically referring to the technology to play a game stand alone.  It of course does not address the external issues of who makes content for a game like that, how players find each other, is the game content even interesting and playable when completely solo, etc.  But if NCSoft *wanted* to make a stand alone City of Heroes, it would have been a bit tricky given its server architecture but not really all that difficult.  The same is likely true for City of Titans.


On the issue of whether its logical at all, before the shutdown, I did propose on the CoH official forums a specific MMO concept that revolved around directly incorporating a stand alone single player experience that I think was logical.  Its not the model MWM is using (and that model would have been significantly more difficult to execute) but I believe the notion of an MMO combined with a single player stand alone experience is a viable one both conceptually and commercially.

[JaguarX]

Yes and no.

Technologically speaking, I think most MMOs have a way to go "standalone" in some fashion, because they have to.  The realities of development mean your developers must be able to fire up the game, or a substantial fraction of the game, on their own PCs to be able to work and test things, particularly your content developers.  Its not practical to upload everything to test servers to test, and test environments are often staged in the same way as live servers (specifically to replicate and test live environments) which means developers have limited access to them.  So the technical machinery to make this work tends to exist always.

But almost no one pushes those development capabilities forward into a useable state for normal players, because there's no commercial benefit to doing so.  Its extra work that will likely never see the light of day, and development teams are not encouraged to expend a lot of time adding features that will never be commercially leveraged.  So while it tends to exist, it tends to be "tinkery" and not always fully stable and certainly not optimized for the kind of hardware the typical player might have.

But its not a case of starting from zero and creating a stand alone version.  The realities of development force most developers, including Cryptic/Paragon Studios as well as MWM, to get at least half way just out of their own necessities.  After that, its just a matter of making it a priority to go the last mile.

This is specifically referring to the technology to play a game stand alone.  It of course does not address the external issues of who makes content for a game like that, how players find each other, is the game content even interesting and playable when completely solo, etc.  But if NCSoft *wanted* to make a stand alone City of Heroes, it would have been a bit tricky given its server architecture but not really all that difficult.  The same is likely true for City of Titans.


On the issue of whether its logical at all, before the shutdown, I did propose on the CoH official forums a specific MMO concept that revolved around directly incorporating a stand alone single player experience that I think was logical.  Its not the model MWM is using (and that model would have been significantly more difficult to execute) but I believe the notion of an MMO combined with a single player stand alone experience is a viable one both conceptually and commercially.

I think I remember that proposal. It was a very good idea, at least to me.

And yeah I think too that the notion of an MMO combined with a single player stand alone is viable, especially commercially. Because it opens it up to another set of gamers, many which will spend lot of money on game they like.

And many console games are starting to get like MMOs. So either console games will scoop up those players with it's ability to play online and or as stand alone or MMOs will get to that crowd of people. Right now, consoles are a bit ahead. Even sandbox worlds are getting huger and huger. Some near if not bigger than MMO worlds. All many need and some on a light scale already have, is a multiplayer feature where they can interact in a world that lives even when they "log out" in multiplayer mode. It's just a matter of time. The question is who will do it. Will MMO makers let console games steal their territory or will MMO makers steal console game territory. There are many console and single player gamers out there ,and it's a vast market, that wish the world was a bit bigger and didn't have to deal with other people for a bigger world. There are some MMO players that like the expansive environments but wish they sometimes could play and take a break from the hustle and bustle of being surrounding by a bunch of people all the time. Untapped market, that have money.

[johnrobey]

I know I'd be willing to play City of Heroes as a stand alone game, even though it was the community and the teaming up that made it great!

[JaguarX]

I know I'd be willing to play City of Heroes as a stand alone game, even though it was the community and the teaming up that made it great!

I'd play a stand alone version of COX in a heart beat and will give all I can and eat Ramen for weeks off the bat if someone started a cox like stand alone game or obtained COX and turned it into a stand alone.

[healix]

I enjoyed teaming with a small select group of friends, but mostly soloed...I just LOVED it, and would play for hours. It's sort of like I was there as my character's sidekick, not that I 'became' the character itself. Stand alone or multi-player....either would be awesome. There are few things that I ever missed more.

[Nightwatch]

I also enjoyed soloing CoH just as much as teaming. 

Because of my schedule (which involves lost of international travel for work) I'm often in different countries and time zones and so can't really maintain 'regular' hours.

So I would welcome this utility in the legacy games and absolutely be up for a stand alone version!