Author Topic: New efforts!  (Read 7212661 times)

Vee

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #26080 on: October 26, 2016, 08:30:52 PM »
Player Nurses Player?

I think you can get that in such classics as E.R. Online, House: The Card Game, and General Hospital Tabletop.

Thank God for the internet. Back in the day you had to pay through the nose to get your dungeonmaster robes custom made if you wanted button flaps for easy nursing.

Twisted Toon

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #26081 on: October 26, 2016, 10:07:44 PM »
Thank God for the internet. Back in the day you had to pay through the nose to get your dungeonmaster robes custom made if you wanted button flaps for easy nursing.

/Takei

Oh My

/Takei
Hope never abandons you, you abandon it. - George Weinberg

Hope ... is not a feeling; it is something you do. - Katherine Paterson

Nobody really cares if you're miserable, so you might as well be happy. - Cynthia Nelms

Paragon Avenger

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #26082 on: October 27, 2016, 07:29:22 AM »
Player Nurses Player?

I always thought that Player Nurses Player games were for babies.

darkgob

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #26083 on: October 27, 2016, 10:31:39 AM »
I always thought that Player Nurses Player games were for babies.

Nope, just Splatoon.

rookery.

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #26084 on: October 27, 2016, 01:23:12 PM »
/Takei

Oh My

/Takei

Never turn off the Takei.

Angel Phoenix77

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #26085 on: October 27, 2016, 06:08:42 PM »
Question how important was slotting a end redux in in the active powers? I have seen people only depend on the fitness power pool. However, a friend of mine taught me, what is the point of hitting like a brick, if you have no energy to use it.
After that, I made sure to slot end redux as my second slot.
One day the Phoenix will rise again.

Ulysses Dare

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #26086 on: October 27, 2016, 06:51:18 PM »
Question how important was slotting a end redux in in the active powers? I have seen people only depend on the fitness power pool. However, a friend of mine taught me, what is the point of hitting like a brick, if you have no energy to use it.
After that, I made sure to slot end redux as my second slot.

On a six slotted power, I generally went with 1 accuracy, 3 damage, 2 end reduction.

Fireheart

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #26087 on: October 27, 2016, 07:52:14 PM »
I'd go 2 Acc, 1 End, 1 Rech, and 2 Dam, but I was a Tanker, so it was more important to me to Not Miss and to Hit 'em Again.

Be Well!
Fireheart

Sinistar

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #26088 on: October 27, 2016, 09:21:53 PM »
Question how important was slotting a end redux in in the active powers? I have seen people only depend on the fitness power pool. However, a friend of mine taught me, what is the point of hitting like a brick, if you have no energy to use it.
After that, I made sure to slot end redux as my second slot.

Well it depends on your philosophy and how your character is slotted.  If you had the unique numina and miracle procs in Fitness/Health  and the Performance Shifter proc in stamina, then stamina issues would diminish.  If you had electric melee you could put end mods in the attacks and basically become a sapper.

Also if you had a T4 Cardiac Core  in your Alpha.....
In fearful COH-less days
In Raging COH-less nights
With Strong Hearts Full, we shall UNITE!
When all seems lost in the effort to bring CoH back to life,
Look to Cyberspace, where HOPE burns bright!

Arcana

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #26089 on: October 27, 2016, 09:35:22 PM »
Question how important was slotting a end redux in in the active powers? I have seen people only depend on the fitness power pool. However, a friend of mine taught me, what is the point of hitting like a brick, if you have no energy to use it.
After that, I made sure to slot end redux as my second slot.

Pre-I9, it was very important.  Very few pre-I9 (meaning, pre-Inventions) builds could sustain any sort of offense paying full price on endurance.  Quite a few people claimed to be able to do so back then, essentially all of them were either lying or had very bad memories.  To put it in numerical terms, across all powersets the cost to deliver one damage scale point of damage (how damage was defined in the game: for reference one DS of damage was 55.6102 points of damage for a blaster using a ranged attack at level 50 before the blaster ranged damage buff; what players used to call "damage scale 1.0" and the basis for comparing different archetypes' damage) for single target attacks was 5.2 endurance.  And the average DPS for single target attacks was a normalized 0.8 DS/sec.  That means the average endurance burn rate for single target attacks was about 4.2 eps.  AoE attacks burned even more than that.  Natural recovery was 100% in 60 seconds or about 1.67 eps.  Fully slotted stamina, even pre-ED, was only going to get you to about 2.9-3.0 eps.  And that is before the use of any other powers, defensive toggles, etc.

Just slotting the equivalent of 1 endurance reduce enhancement dropped the cost of the average single target damage attack chain from about 4.2 eps to 3.2 eps, a reduction of about 1 eps.  That's more than the cost of running all three SR toggles completely unslotted.  Perhaps more significantly, two-slotting endurance reduced the average single target attack chain from 4.2 eps to 2.5 eps.  That's actually sustainable (just barely) in the pre-Invention world.  I know people back in the day that slotted their SR toggles with *three* endred because they cost so much end to run and yet didn't slot any in their attacks.  Convincing them (when I could) to slot just a single endred in attacks and forego two slots of endred in toggles dramatically altered their ability to sustain combat.

Or, you could always make sure to be teamed with an Empathy defender. But without recovery buffs, pre-Invention builds without endurance slotting in attacks would simply run out of gas.

Post Inventions, its a different story.  You have a lot more opportunities to get recovery, and more opportunities to slot invention sets with essentially free end reduction.  But you still wanted to manage endurance using the new opportunities that inventions provided: recovery bonuses, recovery procs, end reduction bonuses, and slot efficiency - the ability to slot just a couple of set IOs to get near the ED soft ceilings and then slot end reduce in the free slots.

Leucha

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #26090 on: October 27, 2016, 10:01:10 PM »
  I know people back in the day that slotted their SR toggles with *three* endred because they cost so much end to run and yet didn't slot any in their attacks.  Convincing them (when I could) to slot just a single endred in attacks and forego two slots of endred in toggles dramatically altered their ability to sustain combat.

Slot-wise, was it worthy ? I mean it implies to sacrifice slots to do that.

Arcana

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #26091 on: October 28, 2016, 12:45:25 AM »
Slot-wise, was it worthy ? I mean it implies to sacrifice slots to do that.

Yes and no.  Prior to getting your full complement of slots, I'm advocating burning one more slot for endred in four or five attacks at a slot cost of say five slots.  At the same time I'm advocating pulling two slots each out of three toggles (in my SR example above).  That's a net cost of burning one less slot.

Now, in terms of maximal slot configurations, you're theoretically capable of having six slots in each attack, which in the pre-Invention world is going to be filled with SOs or HOs (because the crystal titan enhancements would be dead by level 50 when you have all your slots).  So let's look at some possibilities for a six-slotted attack with SOs.

There's six slots of damage.  Pre-inventions and pre-ED you're looking at an attack that does (even SO numbers) 300% of base damage (+200%).  But its also going to miss a lot: your base tohit is going to be 75%.  To simplify the analysis I'm going to ignore things like tactics and intrinsic accuracy, just to keep the comparisons reasonable.  In this scenario using this attack as often as possible you'd average doing 2.25x base damage factoring in misses (I'm also going to exclude the streakbreaker for now, also for simplicity sake).  Let's just say this means this slotting pattern is worth 2.25.

The more common slotting was one acc and five damage.  In this case, your chance to hit goes up from 75% to 75% * 1.33 = 99.75%, but that gets capped to the 95% tohit ceiling.  Damage slotting drops from +200% to +167%.  Total damage becomes .95 * 2.67 = 2.54x.  That's better.

Now, some people went further and slotted one acc, four damage, one recharge.  This gets a little tricky.  Accuracy still hits the 95% ceiling.  Damage drops to +233%.  But slotting +33% recharge doesn't improve damage per second by 33% because of how recharge works.  Recharge slotting improves the total recharge time of the attack but doesn't speed up activation.  If you slot 0.33 recharge, you will reduce an attack with base 4 seconds of recharge to 3 seconds.  But if the activation time is one second, the power goes from taking 5 seconds to cycle to 4 seconds to cycle.  That's only a 20% improvement.  If we guestimate that the average attack has 1.5 seconds of cast time and 6 seconds of recharge, then one recharge improves cycle time from 7.5 seconds to 6 seconds, which is an improvement of about 25%.  So the net damage per second of this attack, judged alone, is about .95 * 2.33 x 1.25 = 2.77x.  That's even better.

But man, it is costly to run.  If you are cycling this attack as fast as it recharges, then (ignoring Arcanatime lag for simplicity sake here) you'd be burning 6.864 endurance every 6 seconds (an attack with recharge 6s would have damage 1.32 and endurance cost 6.864).  This one attack alone would burn 1.144 eps.  You'd be hard pressed to sustain four of these, which would be the minimum necessary to reach a full attack chain (it would probably require slightly more than that).  So let's see what happens if we slot one endred.

One acc, three damage, one endred, one recharge.  The damage multiplier becomes 0.95 x 2.0 x 1.25 = 2.38.  That's less than 1acc/4dmg/1rech but it is actually better than 6-slot damage and 94% of the damage of the 1acc5dmg slotting pattern.  That's not bad.  More importantly, endurance burn drops from 1.144 eps to 0.86 eps.  That's even lower than the burn rate of the 1acc5dmg slotting pattern (0.915 eps).

So: if you compare 1acc/3dmg/1rech/1end vs 1acc5dmg, you end up with 94% of the dps at 94% of the endurance cost.  That's actually pretty good and it is more sustainable.  It only looks bad compared to 1acc4dmg1rech which deals more damage but is totally unsustainable.

And there's one more slotting pattern to consider.  1acc/4dmg/1end.  At the time period we're talking about, perma-hasten was possible and not uncommon.  Under perma-hasten you had a permanent 70% recharge buff.  That made it practical to consider not slotting for recharge and only slotting for endred.  When you account for the 70% recharge buff you end up (using the same assumptions above) with 5.03 cycle time, 1.49x cycle rate, 0.95 x 2.33 x 1.49 = 3.3x effective damage and 1.03eps.  Compare that to 1acc5dmg which would be 0.95 x 2.67 x 1.49 = 3.78x damage and 1.37 eps.  That's 87% of the damage at 75% of the endurance cost.  That's a pretty good deal.

Given the "standard" slotting at the time of 1acc5dmg as the benchmark, 1acc3dmg1rech1end performs comparably outside of hasten.  1acc4dmg1end performs better than 1acc5dmg when under hasten in terms of sustainable bang for buck.  So when slotted as part of a comprehensive build plan to manage endurance and damage output, endurance reduction slotting paid for itself.  It wasn't a sacrifice in the sense it actually opened the door to dealing more damage over time in a sustained fashion relative to not slotting it.  You could temporarily deal more damage for a short time without it, but you could deal more damage overall with it.

Tubbius

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #26092 on: October 29, 2016, 03:31:18 PM »
Arcana broke my brain.

Again.

This is becoming a regular occurrence.   ;D

Dev7on

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #26093 on: October 29, 2016, 08:35:17 PM »
Man... I'm in the mood for a Hamidon Raid. Anyone want to join?

Vee

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #26094 on: October 29, 2016, 08:44:24 PM »
Arcana broke my brain.

Again.


I think I'd make up a story to tell your neurologist other than "I broke it reading an in-depth explanation of game mechanics that had been removed years before the game in question's shutdown, which was also years ago." If you're seeing a psychiatrist instead of a neurologist you can probably stick to the truth.

Arcana

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #26095 on: October 29, 2016, 09:06:01 PM »
Man... I'm in the mood for a Hamidon Raid. Anyone want to join?

Can I bring Hamidon?

Zerohour

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #26096 on: October 30, 2016, 01:28:26 AM »
It's time once again for ...
The Pantless Report!

Hello fellow pants wearers.  I just got off the phone with some higher ups that informed me that I shouldn't say nothing about the upcoming deal.  Well the heck with that!  Right?  So anyways, the deal is all but inked when it is learned that the City of Heroes game engine cheats.  Well this pretty much blew everybody away.  They realized stuff like FrostFire, a relatively low-level Outcast, had Fire Imps and Ice pets and he could fly.  They even uncovered the fact that Malta Group Sappers never miss, never.  They decided to not purchase CoX after all.  Iron Wolf was so upset, he nearly updated the first post on this thread!

It's a whole new ball-game now, folks.
Could I just get some  honest clarification on these posts?  I see them once in a while when I come here to see if there are any updates.  Are these legitimate updates or just meant to be fake and humorous?

Remaugen

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #26097 on: October 30, 2016, 02:12:49 AM »
We're almost there!  ;D

The RNG hates me.

Arcana

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #26098 on: October 30, 2016, 02:54:59 AM »
Could I just get some  honest clarification on these posts?  I see them once in a while when I come here to see if there are any updates.  Are these legitimate updates or just meant to be fake and humorous?

The place to go for actual official updates is this thread: https://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php?topic=10649.0.  It is locked and only the mods can post into it, and they won't unless they have genuine information.  There are exactly two posts in that thread.  It is intended to be used as an alarm clock: just sub the thread and set it to notify you if there are any updates to it.  Anything posted to this thread is either speculation, exasperation, imagination, deflection, defection, defecation, or thread vivication.

LadyVamp

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #26099 on: October 30, 2016, 02:59:39 AM »
Arcana broke my brain.

Again.

This is becoming a regular occurrence.   ;D

Indeed.  I never got into all that stuff.  I just threw in some enhs based on what I thought made sense and off I went.  Never got into the if I slot this [whatever] I can get 0.0002% more dmg thing that some players seem hell bent on doing.

Brain fried!  Core dumped!
No Surrender!