Author Topic: New efforts!  (Read 7211623 times)

switch

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27320 on: April 12, 2017, 10:48:10 PM »
wow  just noticed ncsux stocks are in green and +  wonder what they did cuz was in red and  was at a -  just other day

Arcana

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27321 on: April 12, 2017, 11:50:15 PM »
wow  just noticed ncsux stocks are in green and +  wonder what they did cuz was in red and  was at a -  just other day

It might have something to do with investor anticipation for Lineage M, the mobile game started accepting pre-orders.  I'm not really following closely, so I'm speculating.  Maybe pre-orders are coming in better than expected.  Maybe the game has good buzz: I haven't followed it enough to have an opinion on that score.

Keep in mind retail investors (i.e. individual people) are mostly idiots.  They started buying up the stock of Nintendo on the strong performance of Pokemon Go without bothering to check to see if Nintendo actually made Pokemon Go.  In fact, that was a licensed product of which Nintendo did not receive the bulk of the revenue.

thunderforce

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27322 on: April 13, 2017, 02:21:19 AM »
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If it's true that CoH was still making a profit of $4 million a year at shutdown it isn't hard to see why NC wasn't really interested in selling...
Except that after shutdown they weren't _getting_ that $4 million a year.
Obviously not a huge issue for them if they shut the game down, is it?

That's a bit of a non sequitur, frankly. Your second remark is about why they shut the game down, but the discussion until then pertained to why they wouldn't sell it once it was shut down.

LateNights

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27323 on: April 13, 2017, 04:19:49 AM »
That's a bit of a non sequitur, frankly. Your second remark is about why they shut the game down, but the discussion until then pertained to why they wouldn't sell it once it was shut down.

Pot, kettle ; the discussion was actually about what value NC placed on the I.P in the context of the sale - meaning my second comment does make plenty of sense - even if you only quoted part of what I said twice no less...
« Last Edit: April 13, 2017, 04:48:15 AM by LateNights »

thunderforce

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27324 on: April 13, 2017, 05:11:57 AM »
Pot, kettle ; the discussion was actually about what value NC placed on the I.P in the context of the sale
Very well; then your first comment about the $4 million they weren't actually making and had no prospect of making in the future was irrelevant, which was essentially what I said to begin with.

LateNights

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27325 on: April 13, 2017, 05:25:58 AM »
Very well; then your first comment about the $4 million they weren't actually making and had no prospect of making in the future was irrelevant, which was essentially what I said to begin with.

Why did it's value have nothing to do with it's value?

And if it didn't - why didn't they sell something that had no value to them?

Surelle

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27326 on: April 13, 2017, 11:51:58 AM »
Why did it's value have nothing to do with it's value?

And if it didn't - why didn't they sell something that had no value to them?

Er, for the same reason LucasArts didn't sell off the Star Wars franchise when they shut down Star  Wars: Galaxies?   ;)

Apparently (especially since States/Tyrant appears in MxM nowadays), the CoH license can serve them in other ways.  Although I agree with Nate about the trademark issue (NCSoft was merely flexing their muscles against the possible loss of a "dead trademark" when they put States/Tyrant into MxM).

thunderforce

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27327 on: April 13, 2017, 01:49:11 PM »
Why did it's value have nothing to do with it's value?
That's a question that presupposes your conclusion, and since your conclusion is wrong it's a question that can't be sensibly answered. Its (apostrophe!) value before the shutdown was higher than its value after the shutdown, its value after the shutdown was not that closely related to its value before the shutdown, and both these things have become more true as time has passed.

They didn't, as you suggested, not sell because CoH was worth $4 million a year; they weren't making that money, there was no prospect of starting to make it again in the future, and no reasonable assessment of the value of the IP would be closely related to that figure.
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And if it didn't - why didn't they sell something that had no value to them?
Who said "no value"? However, don't ask me to explain the internal workings of NC. It's hardly news that the decision not to take money for an asset that wasn't making money and likely never would again is a bit of a mystery to many of us.

LateNights

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27328 on: April 13, 2017, 01:55:10 PM »
Wow.

Man am I keen to find out if that cat is still in that box...
« Last Edit: April 13, 2017, 02:13:51 PM by LateNights »

Arcana

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27329 on: April 13, 2017, 08:36:26 PM »
It's hardly news that the decision not to take money for an asset that wasn't making money and likely never would again is a bit of a mystery to many of us.

That isn't very mysterious to me, for two reasons.  First, everyone assumes that there's no default answer when someone asks you to sell them something you own.  Every time someone asks you that question, apparently, you're supposed to make a value judgment and decide in the direction that grants you the most value.  That's not true, and should be (but apparently isn't) obviously not true.  The default answer to all requests to sell someone something you own is "no."  You have to make a positive decision to sell, and that decision is separate from the value proposition.  It should not be a mystery that someone might simply decide not to want to sell, regardless of what was offered.

Second, in today's world there's no such thing as valueless intellectual property.  Disney did not purchase Star Wars and Marvel Studios because of how much money they were making.  But much more importantly, and what most people who don't analyze these decisions don't realize, is that Disney did not purchase Star Wars and Marvel Studios because of how much money they are *currently* making either.

Disney makes a lot of money on the Marvel movies, but if that's all Disney was going to get out of Marvel Studios it would not have bothered.  Disney is not about making Marvel movies.  Disney is about controlling content rights.  It is about Iron Man theme park rides and Captain America lunchboxes and ABC television spin offs, and everything else that goes along with that.  In today's world, all content rights can potentially be valuable, and furthermore any content rights you cede to someone else can become competitive content.

The decision not to sell the game or transfer it while it was still functioning is more inexplicable.  But the decision not to sell or license the property now that it is not attached to a functioning game is actually less inexplicable: there's a sizeable hurdle to overcome just to get someone to want to even think about it.

Sinistar

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27330 on: April 14, 2017, 03:02:38 AM »
I should point out that from a copyright protection perspective, removing the personas as playable characters and NPCs would not be enough to not infringe.  Just mentioning them in any of the story content in-game or in out of game materials would be a violation.  By definition, another game cannot "remove" Statesman and Tyrant by officially killing them or stating that they are dead.  The act of stating they are dead would still be infringement.

Okay then, update and revise the Game Lore so that they were "lost" in battle against Darin Wade and are now only referred to as "Legends".
In fearful COH-less days
In Raging COH-less nights
With Strong Hearts Full, we shall UNITE!
When all seems lost in the effort to bring CoH back to life,
Look to Cyberspace, where HOPE burns bright!

ivanhedgehog

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27331 on: April 14, 2017, 05:40:55 AM »
they could wipe statesman out and replace all mention of him with spider pig and I wouldnt care. As long as I had a playable game with the structures and mechanics of coh, the lore could be changed and it wouldnt matter to me.

Thunder Glove

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27332 on: April 14, 2017, 12:38:41 PM »
Okay then, update and revise the Game Lore so that they were "lost" in battle against Darin Wade and are now only referred to as "Legends".

I think that when Arcana said "even saying they're dead would be copyright infringement", that doesn't mean you can just replace the word "dead" with another word and it's no longer infringing.

Mentioning Statesman in any capacity - dead, alive, lost, found, disintegrated, on vacation, as a "Legend", seen shopping at a 7-Eleven in Tulsa Oklahoma, whatever - would be an infringement.  You'd have to completely rewrite the game lore so that there's no mention of Statesman (including any of his alternate versions, like Tyrant and Reichsman) anywhere, inside the game or out, to avoid infringement.

they could wipe statesman out and replace all mention of him with spider pig and I wouldnt care. As long as I had a playable game with the structures and mechanics of coh, the lore could be changed and it wouldnt matter to me.

This I agree with.  Isn't that what SCoRE was trying to do?  (There's a name I haven't heard from in years, but then again, that "S" does stand for "Secret")

Sinistar

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27333 on: April 14, 2017, 01:35:18 PM »
I think that when Arcana said "even saying they're dead would be copyright infringement", that doesn't mean you can just replace the word "dead" with another word and it's no longer infringing.

Mentioning Statesman in any capacity - dead, alive, lost, found, disintegrated, on vacation, as a "Legend", seen shopping at a 7-Eleven in Tulsa Oklahoma, whatever - would be an infringement.  You'd have to completely rewrite the game lore so that there's no mention of Statesman (including any of his alternate versions, like Tyrant and Reichsman) anywhere, inside the game or out, to avoid infringement.

This I agree with.  Isn't that what SCoRE was trying to do?  (There's a name I haven't heard from in years, but then again, that "S" does stand for "Secret")

If the game Lore must be revised to totally replace Statesman, Reichsman and Tyrant that is fine with me. Just get the game back online! :)

Adjust the Lore so that the defeat of Darin Wade caused a paradigm shift in reality that erased Statesman, Reichman and Tyrant.  COH history gets a revision that sets Positron up as the main hero of Earth, and Antimatter becomes the ruler of Praetoria, and we make a new version of Positron to be the new Reichsman.

Then one day when the licensing is all approved, someone punches the walls of reality, causing a reversion/rebirth that restores Statesman and the rest. ;)
In fearful COH-less days
In Raging COH-less nights
With Strong Hearts Full, we shall UNITE!
When all seems lost in the effort to bring CoH back to life,
Look to Cyberspace, where HOPE burns bright!

Brigadine

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27334 on: April 14, 2017, 05:36:12 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB4I68XVPzQ

In other news.. " It is time for the Jedi to end". - Luke Skywalker

Vee

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27335 on: April 14, 2017, 05:43:01 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB4I68XVPzQ

In other news.. " It is time for the Jedi to end". - Luke Skywalker

Is it 1983 already?

Brigadine

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27336 on: April 14, 2017, 05:45:02 PM »

Dev7on

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27337 on: April 14, 2017, 06:54:34 PM »
This I agree with.  Isn't that what SCoRE was trying to do?  (There's a name I haven't heard from in years, but then again, that "S" does stand for "Secret")

That still exist? I thought it was just rumors. I haven't heard anything about it since the shutdown...... Who's behind it? Or is it called a "Secret" for a reason. Can anybody please tell me what SCoRE means to refresh my memory.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2017, 07:05:31 PM by Dev7on »

Prism Almidu

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27338 on: April 14, 2017, 07:13:46 PM »
That still exist? I thought it was just rumors. I haven't heard anything about it since the shutdown...... Who's behind it? Or is it called a "Secret" for a reason. Can anybody please tell me what SCoRE means to refresh my memory.

SCoRE stands for "Secret Cabal of Reverse Engineers" if I remember correctly. As to their potential progress... the saying goes that two can keep a secret if one is dead, but so far, any secrets involved are pretty well kept among this group. As far as I'm aware, at least.

Edit: Clarification: I know nothing personally, merely a longtime lurker.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2017, 07:22:39 PM by Prism Almidu »

Twisted Toon

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27339 on: April 14, 2017, 09:23:04 PM »

Mentioning Statesman in any capacity - dead, alive, lost, found, disintegrated, on vacation, as a "Legend", seen shopping at a 7-Eleven in Tulsa Oklahoma, whatever - would be an infringement.  You'd have to completely rewrite the game lore so that there's no mention of Statesman (including any of his alternate versions, like Tyrant and Reichsman) anywhere, inside the game or out, to avoid infringement.

I think that he would be, more likely, shopping at Git-n-Go rather than 7-eleven in Tulsa, Oklahoma. It seems to be a regional thing. Git-n-Go in Tulsa, 7-eleven in Oklahoma City...for the most part.
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