Author Topic: New efforts!  (Read 7273709 times)

Brigadine

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28320 on: February 20, 2018, 11:53:34 PM »
Regarding the copyright article, it's an interesting read, but how would any changes get enforced, especially since NCSoft isn't an American company?
By not allowing legal action against American citizens and entities.

MWRuger

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28321 on: February 21, 2018, 03:32:49 AM »
Better link, since the original has expired.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-copyright-office-considering-exemption-001455822.html

Won't matter and won't happen. Too much money against it.
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MegaWatt

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28322 on: February 21, 2018, 05:57:18 AM »
Depressing by true.
If we set it on fire it'll burn....but that'd leave evidence...I KNOW ! COMPLETE ATOMIZATION! WOOOO!

Azrael

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28323 on: February 21, 2018, 01:57:01 PM »
Better link, since the original has expired.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-copyright-office-considering-exemption-001455822.html

The ESA may argue that.  But that would spoil their rental cash cow.  These old games aren't a threat.  They're old, people paid for them, they still have value to the people who poured in the cost of the original game box and at least 8 years of rental subs in some cases.  'Some' still want to play them.  Morally, and in my version of 'fair use,' you get to play it Unreal Tourney style.  Ie.  Solo, over lan, P2Peer.  None of those involve large servers threatening their rent a crowd, in-app shop model.  Sure, corporations might not think that's fair.  The ESA might argue against it.  Why would they not?  Control freakery.  In the same breath, they're making vast more money than games companies made in the 80s?  And it's still not enough.  'Not allowed.' 

Remember when people made a game and you could play it when YOU wanted to?  Now we're being herded into a 0 and 1's, rental, non-ownership model that you can't play when the corporation decides.

Not only are Corporations our friends but they also know what's good for us when they decided to cancel a game.  Cancelling COH was a bad choice for CoH customers.  Maybe not for NC.  But at least put it on skeleton servers so the 80-100k of players can still play it.  But no, we'll get herded into the Korean model of plastic games that suck.  Just say 'no' folks.  The power of the wallet.  Backfired for them.  They have one less customer.  Fair enough, Korean market is their focus.  So why buy CoH in the first place?  It's not your focus, right?  The mentality is that those 80-100k of customers can be herded onto one of your other games that sucks.  It doesn't have value to keep it alive (but value to keep it dead and not sell it to anyone else...) to the corporation.

Gaming companies can decided whether their is progress in an online game's subs base.  Fair enough.  I don't play Boulderdash for the C64 any longer.  But it's nice to have access to it 'have a play' and remember the good times.  I don't see that as threatening any modern gaming business model.  Rebalancing something entering into public domain should be addressed.  But in the current corporate climate, it's hard to see it happening.  When 'enough' is never enough.

Corporations killing IP by cancelling games and sitting on the corpse is wrong.  8 bit old C64 cassette games or CoH online games should be preserved for private or museum purposes.  Do games corporations ever give back to the community?  Old online games so they can be studied on coursed, college projects, freeware when a specific game has been profited from in its original carnation as much as it could have been.  Rather than gating access through IP 'death' then arises the issue of heritage, what you payed for, time invested.  EULA fair use says you only have rental rights until we kill the game.  When something is shiny and new and there's no threat of it being canned consumers may sign up for that rough treatment.  But what if the game is canned after 6 months, 2 years, 8 years?  'Tough' is the answer.  You knew what you were signing up for.  You treat people in that '0' hour model of treatment where you basically have limited or no rights...the corporations will be the first to moan when profits are down at shareholder meetings.  Maybe it's a push to the future where you don't 'own' anything (but, surprise, the corporations do?)

Private use is fair use.  I'm not making millions of copies.  I'm not selling it.  Sure, NC own and control the direct of the IP.  That's up to them.

That's the fair case balanced case that we should have but don't.  As we move to digital only, corporations will decided when to host, what version you can have access to, if you have access, how many copies you can have as a back up, whether you can 'share' your 'vinyl' record with a friend.  That you can't fast forward past the copyright notice on DVDs (yes, we know stealing is wrong...) and forced to watch an anti piracy ad after the credits role up.  (Can't press button function at this time...'not allowed...')  It's the little things.

People can argue about the law all they want when billion dollar companies are lobbying US Gov' for extended Copyrights.  When the law is unfair, then the law is an ass.  It's just that individual voters don't have the government access lobbyists have?  Before you know it, you only have the rights the corporation says you have.  And that's it in a nutshell.  Corporate control.  Right down to the brass tack.  (Would you trust a corporation controlling access to the air you breath?  Or the water you drink?  Or the food you eat?  *oh wait...)

The consumer has to fight this.

Azrael.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 02:18:00 PM by Azrael »

Azrael

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28324 on: February 21, 2018, 02:20:41 PM »
Superman without trunks is why Black Canary, Batwoman, and Barda all posted #Metoo



Reeves Superman vs Cavill's Superman.  No contest.  Reeves wins.  It's called charisma.  The pants also look better than no pants.

DC 52 (whatever that means?)  where basically Jim Lee re-designed all the costumes.  Very same.  Uninspired.  No one artist designed all the original 'iconic' DC heroes and heroines.

DC 52.  A new low.  Shallow as it was pointless.  Monosyllabic.  Corp(orate.)  or Corpse.  Either is fitting.

And I thought 'Crisis on Infinite' was their darkest hour.  (All your old comic collections are valueless and don't exist anymore.  Herded into a 'new' idea Ka-Ching.  Or ka-pow.  Take yer pick.)

Azrael.

Azrael

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28325 on: February 21, 2018, 02:25:06 PM »
Superman without pants.

Like Starwars without Lucas.

Pantless or pointless.

ie.  It's not personal, it's corporate.

Azrael.

Azrael

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28326 on: February 21, 2018, 02:27:17 PM »
Disney's Last Jedi and NC's CoH have one thing in common...

Azrael.

Tyger42

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28327 on: February 22, 2018, 02:16:05 AM »
Like Starwars without Lucas.

Pantless or pointless.

ie.  It's not personal, it's corporate.

I saw the prequels. That was Star Wars WITH Lucas, too, after the original trilogy...

Nyx Nought Nothing

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28328 on: February 22, 2018, 03:47:17 AM »
I saw the prequels. That was Star Wars WITH Lucas, too, after the original trilogy...
The original trilogy Lucas still had producers, co-writers, and people willing to tell him no. He's good with ideas, but on his own he writes opaque, confusing plots and awkward, clunky dialogue.
So far so good. Onward and upward!

Azrael

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28329 on: February 22, 2018, 12:11:56 PM »
I saw the prequels. That was Star Wars WITH Lucas, too, after the original trilogy...

Episode 1:  Qui Gon.  Liam Neeson is a mighty fine Jedi.  I like his stewardship of the young Anakin.  A brain dead Ja-Ja (I could cope with that...)  A poignant goodbye scene between Anakin and his Mum.  A kick ass three way fight between Maul, Qui and Young Kenobi.  An electric fight scene.

Episode 2:  Yoda kicks ass.  Almost.  Great fight sequence between Kenobi/Anakin and Dooku.  I enjoyed the growing tension between Master and Pupil other Anakin's illicit affair and conflicted feelings.

Episode 3: Tearing down of the Jedi order.  Betrayal.  Master vs Pupil.  A titanic fight sequence between Kenobi and Anakin.  Sith Lord vs Mace Windu.  Sith Lord vs Yoda.

Things I like.  High points I think.  For me, the space 'fights' aren't the stars of the show this time.  More so, the personal relationships and intrigue.  'Re-visting' Tatooine.  But I do like the politics and the tension in the relationships all round.  From the Jedi Council vs the 'Republic', the Senator and Anakin, Anakin and Amidala, Kenobi and Anakin (very interesting...the growing friction...)

There's quite a lot going on.  Some may say they're flawed compared to the originals.  Jedi was my least favourite.  Episode 3 is comparable to Empire in many ways.  Very dark palette.

Prequels/'sequels'.  Who cares?  Star Wars is seminal energy.  Empire is the dark jewel in the crown.  Jedi was FLAWED if you don't like Ewoks.  I preferred Ja-Ja.  Or 'flawed'.  One of the six movies had to be the best.  (I'd say Starwars, Empire and Episode III was the best.  With the rest honourable runners up.)

And Episode 1 had Anakin's theme.  Which is comparable to any Star Wars track.  And you had the Darth Maul 'flash gordon' reveal music.  Quite the fanfare for a fantastic battle.

Plenty of positives for me.  I guess politics, stillness and Lucas aren't fashionable anymore.  Sometimes 'time' passes even the great creators by.

Azrael.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2018, 12:26:08 PM by Azrael »

Azrael

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28330 on: February 22, 2018, 12:21:05 PM »
The original trilogy Lucas still had producers, co-writers, and people willing to tell him no.

As Steven Spielberg once said(?) 'I'm at the stage of my career where I can shoot the yellow pages if I want...'

Quote
Disney is bad with ideas, their directors writes opaque, confusing plots and awkward, clunky dialogue.

Spoiler for Hidden:
Corporate disembowling of Lucas' IP ('Oh look, the son kills the father.  Oh look, the son 'kills' his Mum.  Hans dead.  So what?  Luke's dropped dead.  But he didn't do anything?'  'Oh.  He over exerted himself.'  Working for a corporation, that comes as no surprise.  He notes wryly.)  Message.  Your StarWars is DEAD.  'We OWN it now.'

Disney's StarWars was dead IP the moment they signed for it.  Overwrought and hollow re-treading...bit bleaching 'plots' (heh) until they run dry with their ret conned virtue-signalling.  I think Mark Hammil probably said it best.  (Check out any of this comments...)

Lucas had a treatment for 7-9 and it was touch and go whether he was going to do it then he sold it to Disney.  They got a dead IP without Lucas.  Lucas got Time.  (He's Luminous and flawed.  I like my creators that way.  Vs Creation by Corporate Committee.)

Fair play to him.

Lucas is Starwars.  Disney's Starwars.  Now there's an oxymoron.

'Half a Jedi.'  Yoda.

Azrael.

Edit: Be nice.  Until it's out on DVD, cover your spoilers if it's not posted in "Comics and Other Media." (Relax, you're not in trouble.) -Tahquitz
« Last Edit: February 23, 2018, 12:11:51 AM by Tahquitz »

Azrael

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28331 on: February 22, 2018, 12:36:26 PM »
On a related note.

One old colleague said that he found Star Wars wooden.  (Yes those 'great' original sequels.)

'Never liked Star Wars, acting wooden and all a bit far fetched really.'  'Master Jedi' (I'll call him for our purposes.)

Ok.  Fair enough.  He was older than me.  I was lucky enough to be young and see Star Wars (thus) as Lucas intended.

My 'old' colleague probably played with Fishing Rods.  He can keep them.  I had Star Wars.  There were plenty of fishing rods.  Only one Star Wars.  Both the Sequels and Prequels are unique.  Lucas was Unique.  Can't think of Sci Fi that has moved me since.  All a bit sterile really and empty.  I got the Lucas family theme dressed up as a spaghetti western with old black and white movie dog fights...with a musical thrown in for good measure.

Maybe Star Wars is clunky.  But with the perfection of John Williams takes it onto a different plane of movie experience.

People like what they like.

Azrael.

Azrael

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28332 on: February 22, 2018, 12:47:19 PM »
Sometimes it is good to be told 'no.'

But I sometimes think as we get older we don't want to hear it.  Sometimes you just want the intimacy of being accepted warts and all.

I don't doubt Lucas compromised on the prequels as he did on the sequels.  That worked on Empire but flopped on Jedi.  Really worked on Star Wars IV.  Oh wait.  That was him.  Made him a nervous wreck.  And you can tell it was made in adversity.  It could have been a disaster without the edit. 

The prequels weren't made in adversity.  But they're supposed to reflect the golden age.  'So.'

A lot of people can't accept why Episode IV's fight sequence between Darth and Kenobi was so 'bad.'

Lucas tells them it's a walking hospital vs an old guy.  People these days can't just accept it as it is.

Lucas tells people the prequels are for 7-12 year olds.  People from the generation that has never been told 'no' (ironically) can't accept that.

But they want Lucas to listen to 'them' and fire him from Star Wars and replace him with Peter Jackson.

No wonder he sold up.  He looked visibly hurt.  'What's the point, right?'

It's hard to be the man you were in a desert somewhere trying to lift a Death Star on your shoulders.  Just as ageing is cruel in the Disney dilute Orange Juice StarWars which sees the prequels original cast as 'older' and ill treated 'plot wise'.  Another irony.

'I prefer to remember them as they were.'

Azrael.

Ulysses Dare

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28333 on: February 22, 2018, 04:12:34 PM »
Corporate disembowling of Lucas' IP ('Oh look, the son kills the father. [followed by spoilers]
Dude! Not cool. Not everyone has had the chance to see Last Jedi yet. >:(
« Last Edit: February 24, 2018, 04:56:02 PM by Ulysses Dare »

MWRuger

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28334 on: February 22, 2018, 07:07:54 PM »
Azreal,

Your impassioned (and lengthy) defense of all things Star Wars fills me with the urge to disagree just to be contrary.

I saw Star Wars and loved it in 1977. Empire was incredible. After that, not so much.

I still haven't seen Last Jedi, but it sounds like from your completely unnecessary spoilers that I don't need to bother. I will say that I liked The Force Awakens better than everything in the prequels except for Revenge of the Sith. That one it tied with.

But I can tell you this, bitching about Disney is completely and utterly pointless. There would be no new Star Wars films without them. They have handled Marvel properties much better than Fox or Paramount. George Lucas lost his touch, pure and simple. It was his property and he chose someone to pass it on to.

He isn't a saint or a monster, he didn't create the world, just a fun franchise. Enjoy them or not. It won't matter to Disney as long as they make money.
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Sergio526

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28335 on: February 22, 2018, 09:44:26 PM »
Remember, under Lucas, the only thing that was happening with Star Wars were 3D re-releases of the the prequels. I rather have what we have now than more and more re-releases with more CGI and gimmicks tossed in. I'm sure he would have had all the films 3D-ified by now with extra CG and now we'd start seeing UHD+HDR re-releases coming out (wait, that last bit doesn't sound too bad, actually).

Brigadine

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28336 on: February 23, 2018, 12:34:20 AM »
Remember, under Lucas, the only thing that was happening with Star Wars were 3D re-releases of the the prequels. I rather have what we have now than more and more re-releases with more CGI and gimmicks tossed in. I'm sure he would have had all the films 3D-ified by now with extra CG and now we'd start seeing UHD+HDR re-releases coming out (wait, that last bit doesn't sound too bad, actually).
Have you seen the true 1080p revisions of the original trilogy. There is a couple scenes where you can clearly make out a painted cardboard box being used as a prop. Careful what you wish for. It is sorta like watching the news anchor talk in UHD and you can see Everything. it aint worth it man.

LateNights

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28337 on: February 23, 2018, 01:46:37 AM »
Remember, under Lucas, the only thing that was happening with Star Wars were 3D re-releases of the the prequels. I rather have what we have now than more and more re-releases with more CGI and gimmicks tossed in. I'm sure he would have had all the films 3D-ified by now with extra CG and now we'd start seeing UHD+HDR re-releases coming out (wait, that last bit doesn't sound too bad, actually).

Was gonna say "are you crazy!?!" - sure it's nice to have the new films, but maybe they'd have been better waiting till Lucas passed away so at least there was some reverence when the time came - now, I just want the ultra HD 3d versions of the older movies!!


Taceus Jiwede

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28338 on: February 24, 2018, 02:02:23 AM »
I know this is a very unpopular opinion but I didn't like any of the Star War movies.  Not the originals, not the prequels, and not the new ones.  I accept it is an important part of Sci-Fantasy cinema history, I know it opened a lot of paths and means a lot to a lot of people so I won't criticize the movies.  But personally, they have never done it for me.

Fireheart

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28339 on: February 24, 2018, 04:30:32 PM »
What's your opinion of 'Battle Beyond the Stars', then?

Be Well!
Fireheart