Author Topic: New efforts!  (Read 2744060 times)

Codewalker

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28700 on: August 15, 2018, 01:35:35 AM »
Near shutdown it became possible to free-fly through paused demorecords, and some of us were suggesting people demorecord a few seconds inside their bases because you could then revisit them within demorecords.  It turned out that all the data necessary to represent a base was embedded within the demorecord so you could view them within a demorecord, without the game servers.  Anyone who did that would have the base info recorded for some future project like PC to tap into.

I had actually decoded the SG base format embedded in demorecords about 7-8 months before shutdown, so I was busy telling everyone I could get to spread the word to make demos of bases, but sadly not everyone was active during those days or heard the message.

In the time between figuring that out and hearing about the shutdown announcement, I was mostly using it for parlor tricks like walking into a friend's base, then playing psychic and telling them what they had in their storage bins. ;D

jessejame

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28701 on: August 18, 2018, 05:58:37 PM »
I would like to start this off by thanking everyone who has played a part in the ongoing efforts over the years  to obtain  the game and to those volunteers working diligently to bring to life a new community. You guys are the real heroes and I appreciate your sacrifices. For years I've watched these forums never interjecting my opinion hoping for something positive to come of the efforts, and I've given up hope. My opinion is that NCsoft is not going to sell the game. The NDA is just to silence us. Why else force us to sign an NDA for something such as a video game they didn't see fit? Especially if they were really willing to sell it? If we told them no they would've made it apparent that they weren't going to sell and try to spin it off as our fault. They like to have assets they can call upon at a later future in the event that their business has a catastrophic failure. Go look at their stocks, why would they sell when they're doing good? Look at all the other games they've shut down and refuse to release the rights to. Just because they don't like to do business at face value doesn't mean they wouldn't act in desperation if their situation was dire. It's just another excuse they've come up with to hold onto what they only look at with a price tag and a last resort. I really wanted to play auto assault back in the day but they shut that down early as well so I never even got the chance. These are just some of the reasons I've formulated as to why they haven't done anything. I don't mean to get people down. Hope is what's driving the successors and other works and I'm very grateful. Thank you to all of those who have tried your best because at the end of the day that's all you can do.

Azrael

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28702 on: August 20, 2018, 02:17:21 PM »
When do Corporations ever give anything away?

MMOs are the original 'rental' software scheme.  You buy a product.  Rent it.  And still don't own it despite 'buying it' and 'renting' to use the software you bought. :P  Talk about a corporation having their cake and eating it.

Look at old movies and Mickey Mouse.  Even Captain America.  They should have lapsed into public domain long ago.

NC Soft shuttered a game that was making a profit.  They could have culled the 90+ employees down to the original 15 'holding pattern' at the time of its purchase.  But no.  Now they want a foothold back in the American market?  Drop dead.  The way they treat their customer base = no sale from me.  Get bent.

Corporations.  I tend to think of dinosaurs.  Meat eaters, not the plant eating variety.  So, sometimes I smile at the 'stockholm' style loyalty people have to corporations who wouldn't throw you a dime if you were having a hard time.

In short.  I don't believe NC Soft will sell.  They had their chance with the Paragon Developers.  It got personal.  Real personal.  They wouldn't sell to them?  'At any price.'  They didn't get the market potential for superheroes.  Their own look out.

But cr*p like Aeon still thrives and has a private server.  I can't explain that one.

So, to Codewalker (and his team, Leandro etc...) and his 'unholy' war.  Paragon Chat has already achieved 'the impossible.'  And the fantastic achievement of the 'bases' shows how seriously he and his team takes this.  A big brick in the wall.  What's next?  Who cares?  The CoH legacy is in safe hands.

SEGs, too, is stepping up.  It's getting people, a community of programmers involved.  I wish them well.

CoH was the 'perfect game' - the playability.  The teaming.  The chat.  (The back slash beep) the zone music.  All perfect.  The legendary costume creators.  The difficulty system unparalleled.  Want mobs or higher diff?  Or both?  The enhancement system was spot on.  (I didn't like the incarnate bolt on.  Naff interface, generic powers and an almighty grind.)  Simple interface.  For pick up and go players.  Awesome community.

What's not to like?

I appreciate the efforts of Codewalker and SEGs to give this game back to the community.  And I wish Corporations would do that after substantially profiting from said community.  But it's not in their nature to do so.  Let's not hold our breath for any talks to succeed.

Azrael.

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28703 on: August 20, 2018, 02:20:11 PM »
As for the Law?

It's an *ss if it's stacked in favour of the corporations.

Re: MMOs.  Fair use must be broader to have the right to play the game you bought, 'rented to death' and put your personal time investment into (something else which doesn't get talked about with Corporations.  They don't value your time unless it profits them.)

As a community, we should value ourselves and our rights.  I admire the resolve of the community and it's leaders to give this game back.

Azrael.

Styrj

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28704 on: August 21, 2018, 11:17:08 AM »
I second everthing Azrael says in his/her last 2 posts.  I am content to run around the maps seeing places I haven't been & meeting people (although I am mostly a loner).  I await to see whats next from CW and crew?  Whatever it may be, it will be well worth the wait.  As for NCS, they can go take a flying leap!  I haven't spent a red cent on ANY NCS product since they killed my game.

My thanks for all you guys/gals have done for the CoHV community.
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Kruhl Sentru

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28705 on: August 21, 2018, 06:32:14 PM »
When lawmakers take donations to their campaign fund in exchange for doing whatever the rich want, corruption will take over the lawmaking system.  There's not much chance of any law forcing NCSoft, who is Korean based anyways, to not keep games like CoX from coming back.

However, as bleak as it is, I won't give up.  CoX isn't likely to come back, but I'll be here if it ever does.  NCSoft shut down the game under false pretenses, and took a financial blow because of it.  Not enough to do much to a company like that, but it's far from the only problem they have, stocks or not.  Remember that game, MasterXMaster?  No?  That's because it died that fast.  How about the time that one of their own financial backers threatened to make a hostile takeover of their company if they didn't change certain members of their board of directors?  They narrowly dodged that bullet.  In short, it's a slim shot, I know, but things can change in a heartbeat.  Maybe, by some miracle, someday, they'll decide to not be total jerks about the negotiation.  Stranger things have happened.

Paragon Chat is nice for nostalgia, but honestly, I just find it more painful than anything else.  I want my friggin' Mastermind back lol.  And, Paragon Chat can't bring back the Archetypes, the combat system, the wonderful stories, etc.  SEGS would be nice, but, I'm in a wait-and-see mode.  Lots of similar efforts have failed, but I wish 'em luck.  They'll need some serious perseverance, but perhaps they can come up with something.  With any luck, they won't even get shot down by some legal mumbo jumbo.  And, there's the spiritual successors.  It's not CoX, and can never truly replace CoX, but at least we can get some parts back.  Unfortunately, what with the spate of abandonware out there, and the long time it's taking, it's kinda looking shaky at times.  Still, it would be nice to get some good successors out there!

NCSoft is a producer, not a developer.  They don't make games.  They make physical copies of games, box art, ads, etc.  They financially back the actual development teams.  But, they couldn't develop a decent game to save their life.  This is just one of many producers, and most of them are a serious problem to deal with.  That's why you see so many indie games these days.  Many developers are sick of being told how to do their job by someone who's never had the faintest idea of how to make a game, and so they work either alone, in small teams, or perhaps in mid-size teams of 30, 50, or even 100 developers.  They do it without producers.  Minecraft, Warframe, Stardew Valley, and many other games were made this way.  So, yeah, I don't care for NCSoft, but it's a larger problem than just them.   :-\

Anyways, I'm not one to give up.  In my life, it's not been a real option.  I've fought with a major disability since I was about 3 (although not diagnosed until I was 20).  Now I'm 34, and still disabled.  I still won't give up, and I still look for any chance to heal, find new ways to progress, and to improve.  So, maybe this has hardened me a bit into never giving up lol.  But, either way, I'm still hoping that one in a million chance comes up, and CoX comes back.  It won't be the same, no more updates like before (although we'll see what happens), but at least it's something.  Maybe NCSoft will try to throw the community a bone in an effort to clean up a rather heavily stained reputation or something.  You never know.   ;)

Abraxus

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28706 on: August 22, 2018, 01:25:54 PM »
"So, you're sayin' there's a chance!" - LLoyd Christmas

I completely agree.  I accept that it's not likely, but the small ember of hope burns, just waiting for a reason to become a raging inferno, and will never go out!
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Brigadine

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28707 on: August 23, 2018, 03:36:49 AM »
"So, you're sayin' there's a chance!" - LLoyd Christmas

I completely agree.  I accept that it's not likely, but the small ember of hope burns, just waiting for a reason to become a raging inferno, and will never go out!

"I despritely want to make love to a schoolboy" - Lloyd Christmas.

AlkarF22

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28708 on: August 24, 2018, 06:46:49 AM »
At least to me, if no one has officially told us that the negotiations have failed, then there’s still hope. I feel like they would at least be at liberty to tell us they failed

Brigadine

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28709 on: August 25, 2018, 05:26:48 PM »
At least to me, if no one has officially told us that the negotiations have failed, then there’s still hope. I feel like they would at least be at liberty to tell us they failed
That is what I have thought too. NDAs can technically last forever but something so draconian over something like this would be so far beyond bizarre...

LateNights

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28710 on: August 26, 2018, 09:11:51 AM »
Pays to remember that it wasn't even an individual within the buying team that informed us of the attempt to begin with.

NDA or not - they simply don't seem to want to speak about the attempt in any way, shape or form...

Ultimate15

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28711 on: August 26, 2018, 05:27:39 PM »
When lawmakers take donations to their campaign fund in exchange for doing whatever the rich want, corruption will take over the lawmaking system.  There's not much chance of any law forcing NCSoft, who is Korean based anyways, to not keep games like CoX from coming back.

However, as bleak as it is, I won't give up.  CoX isn't likely to come back, but I'll be here if it ever does.  NCSoft shut down the game under false pretenses, and took a financial blow because of it.  Not enough to do much to a company like that, but it's far from the only problem they have, stocks or not.  Remember that game, MasterXMaster?  No?  That's because it died that fast.  How about the time that one of their own financial backers threatened to make a hostile takeover of their company if they didn't change certain members of their board of directors?  They narrowly dodged that bullet.  In short, it's a slim shot, I know, but things can change in a heartbeat.  Maybe, by some miracle, someday, they'll decide to not be total jerks about the negotiation.  Stranger things have happened.

Paragon Chat is nice for nostalgia, but honestly, I just find it more painful than anything else.  I want my friggin' Mastermind back lol.  And, Paragon Chat can't bring back the Archetypes, the combat system, the wonderful stories, etc.  SEGS would be nice, but, I'm in a wait-and-see mode.  Lots of similar efforts have failed, but I wish 'em luck.  They'll need some serious perseverance, but perhaps they can come up with something.  With any luck, they won't even get shot down by some legal mumbo jumbo.  And, there's the spiritual successors.  It's not CoX, and can never truly replace CoX, but at least we can get some parts back.  Unfortunately, what with the spate of abandonware out there, and the long time it's taking, it's kinda looking shaky at times.  Still, it would be nice to get some good successors out there!

NCSoft is a producer, not a developer.  They don't make games.  They make physical copies of games, box art, ads, etc.  They financially back the actual development teams.  But, they couldn't develop a decent game to save their life.  This is just one of many producers, and most of them are a serious problem to deal with.  That's why you see so many indie games these days.  Many developers are sick of being told how to do their job by someone who's never had the faintest idea of how to make a game, and so they work either alone, in small teams, or perhaps in mid-size teams of 30, 50, or even 100 developers.  They do it without producers.  Minecraft, Warframe, Stardew Valley, and many other games were made this way.  So, yeah, I don't care for NCSoft, but it's a larger problem than just them.   :-\

Anyways, I'm not one to give up.  In my life, it's not been a real option.  I've fought with a major disability since I was about 3 (although not diagnosed until I was 20).  Now I'm 34, and still disabled.  I still won't give up, and I still look for any chance to heal, find new ways to progress, and to improve.  So, maybe this has hardened me a bit into never giving up lol.  But, either way, I'm still hoping that one in a million chance comes up, and CoX comes back.  It won't be the same, no more updates like before (although we'll see what happens), but at least it's something.  Maybe NCSoft will try to throw the community a bone in an effort to clean up a rather heavily stained reputation or something.  You never know.   ;)

Awww <3

Yeah, I more or less agree with everything you've just said. I still hold out hope too - even if reality/rational suggests that there's realistically 'little' to even hope on, at this point.

Paragon Chat was painful at first, but it's grown on my considerably. The costume creator is keeping my creative juices flowing, and I enjoy visiting the 'ol stomping grounds and keeping in touch with former players. It's bittersweet still, but ultimately worth it.

I wish all of the successor projects all the luck in the world. I'm not personally jazzed by any of them, but I think I may be in the minority of COH players who, above all else, just want to see the game back. Like, I want it back so bad that I'm totally disinterested in every other game lol. It left TOO big of a hole in my heart, and I don't think the magic that COH had can be replicated in another game (even if the community of players is a direct transfer). There were too many factors that made it special. Like lightning in a bottle.

The only real thing that I'm keeping tabs on right now is SEGS, and even that is a mixed bag for me. If they can find a way to code everything back together and centralize everything to a select 10/12 servers (as opposed to individual servers)... then I am so there. And, of course, I recognize that if that EVER happens, it's not going to happen anytime even remotely soon at all. And much like the successor projects, this is all volunteer work.

So, yeah. Beggars can't be choosers. Curses.
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Mistress Urd

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28712 on: September 17, 2018, 03:28:04 AM »
I poked my head in here because I saw this

https://www.mmorpg.com/news/rumor-city-of-heroes-and-wildstar-closures-an-alternate-viewpoint-from-the-inside-1000049799

made me think of all the good times I had in City of Heroes.

Oh well, one day we will get our game back.

Dev7on

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28713 on: September 17, 2018, 04:00:25 AM »
I poked my head in here because I saw this

https://www.mmorpg.com/news/rumor-city-of-heroes-and-wildstar-closures-an-alternate-viewpoint-from-the-inside-1000049799

made me think of all the good times I had in City of Heroes.

Oh well, one day we will get our game back.

At this rate NCsoft is going to go bankrupt and force them to sell all of their IP games they own sooner or later. Now all they have left is Blade & Soul, Guild Wars 2, Aion and Lineage II. Looks like karma is starting to catch up to them. :) NCsoft is a horrible company.

Ulysses Dare

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28714 on: September 17, 2018, 04:11:57 AM »
I poked my head in here because I saw this

https://www.mmorpg.com/news/rumor-city-of-heroes-and-wildstar-closures-an-alternate-viewpoint-from-the-inside-1000049799

made me think of all the good times I had in City of Heroes.

Oh well, one day we will get our game back.

Yeah, and Pohsyb says that rumor is nonsense here (starting with the first comment).

Basically, for those who don't feel like reading the thread:
a) The devs did pitch CoH2 to NCSoft and they got turned down. So the claim that the money for CoH2 was misused is false.
b) The folks in the various studios had little to no idea what was going on in any of the other studios. So the dev from Carbide is...less that authoritative, to put it far too nicely.

Codewalker

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28715 on: September 17, 2018, 03:18:17 PM »
Cross-posting from the other thread here where this was brought up.

Everything I've heard from former rednames who would be in a position to know (some directly, some through intermediaries) is 100% consistent with what pohsyb posted.

COH2 was pitched a couple of times, but it was years before the game closed. NCSoft rejected the proposal both times.

I don't know the exact funding source of the two non-COH projects that Paragon had in development at the time the studio was closed, or what levels of approval they had received from management in Korea. It's possible there might be some small grain of truth if there was a miscommunication and the top level wasn't fully aware of what was being worked on. However I can definitively say they did not divert funds from COH2, because such a project was never green-lit in spite of multiple attempts.

Since the rumor got that much of a fundamental detail wrong, it makes me extremely skeptical about the rest of it.

Ulysses Dare

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28716 on: September 17, 2018, 04:23:16 PM »
If I remember correctly, while the devs were pretty tight lipped about just what the "secret project" was, the one thing they were open about is that it wasn't CoH2. If they were telling the players that in the forums, how the heck were they supposed to be  hiding it from NCSoft?

Mistress Urd

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28717 on: Yesterday at 02:14:38 AM »
Yeah, and Pohsyb says that rumor is nonsense here (starting with the first comment).

Basically, for those who don't feel like reading the thread:
a) The devs did pitch CoH2 to NCSoft and they got turned down. So the claim that the money for CoH2 was misused is false.
b) The folks in the various studios had little to no idea what was going on in any of the other studios. So the dev from Carbide is...less that authoritative, to put it far too nicely.

Actually, it was from seeing "City of Heroes" I don't really care about what the article says. Seeing Wildstar and NCSoft to me = no money to NCSoft after City of Heroes shutdown.

As far as CoH2 and secret project, well if NCSoft didn't want Paragon Studios making CoH2, well that is all I need to know. Doomed to fail.

duane

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28718 on: Yesterday at 04:23:19 PM »
I think massively pulled their article on this.  No loss. 

Sad people still feel 6 years later like taking jabs at the COH community for not going down without a fight.


LateNights

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #28719 on: Yesterday at 05:41:54 PM »


Ah...the internet.