Author Topic: New efforts!  (Read 3932902 times)

Sinistar

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #29100 on: May 21, 2019, 04:55:32 AM »
Brilliant, Thanks guys!

One last question - is there any talk of someone setting up a Titan server?

I'm thinking something along the lines of setting up my own to power level toons, then migrating over to roleplay & run endgame content...

I think one of the Homecoming servers is an RP server the others are for fun, PL'ing, etc.

As to Titan Network, you have to ask them :)
In fearful COH-less days
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With Strong Hearts Full, we shall UNITE!
When all seems lost in the effort to bring CoH back to life,
Look to Cyberspace, where HOPE burns bright!

LateNights

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #29101 on: May 21, 2019, 05:17:38 AM »
I think one of the Homecoming servers is an RP server the others are for fun, PL'ing, etc.

As to Titan Network, you have to ask them :)

Thanks again!

Any Titan folks around that can give some insight as to what the plans are, or are things still developing as we speak?
« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 05:25:04 AM by LateNights »

Ulysses Dare

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #29102 on: May 21, 2019, 05:26:37 AM »
Any Titan folks around that can give some insight as to what the plans are, or are things still developing as we speak?
As far as I know, the last official word we had was this: Titan Network in talks about a community-run server.
I would imagine, in order to not rock the boat,  that  the Titan folks won't be moving forward on a server of their own unless/until they reach an agreement with NCSoft.

LateNights

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #29103 on: May 21, 2019, 07:56:25 AM »
As far as I know, the last official word we had was this: Titan Network in talks about a community-run server.
I would imagine, in order to not rock the boat,  that  the Titan folks won't be moving forward on a server of their own unless/until they reach an agreement with NCSoft.

Better safe than sorry.

Thanks though, still hope that the community won't be sent to the far corners of the earth never to be seen again...

Tubbius

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #29104 on: May 24, 2019, 03:49:29 PM »
Hi folks,

I hate to ask this so directly, but I feel that I need straight information, and I don't know where or how to find it out.

I've heard from a friend on Discord that (1) NCSoft has explicitly, specifically stated that they do not care about the existence of the private servers and (2) that there is no chance of their legally laying the smack down on individual players.

As an English teacher, I take this with a bit of, "Hold on, I need a source."

Can anyone give me concrete evidence of either of the above points?

Thank you for your assistance.

Ulysses Dare

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #29105 on: May 24, 2019, 04:00:49 PM »
Hi folks,

I hate to ask this so directly, but I feel that I need straight information, and I don't know where or how to find it out.

I've heard from a friend on Discord that (1) NCSoft has explicitly, specifically stated that they do not care about the existence of the private servers and (2) that there is no chance of their legally laying the smack down on individual players.

As an English teacher, I take this with a bit of, "Hold on, I need a source."

Can anyone give me concrete evidence of either of the above points?

Thank you for your assistance.
Yeah, I'm with you. I definitely want a source on that one because it makes zero sense for NCSoft to make such a statement. They have nothing to gain from it and, should they decide later on that they do care about the private servers, it could potentially hurt them.

Sinistar

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #29106 on: May 24, 2019, 09:33:40 PM »
To Ncsoft, it is a dead property that they barely care about but it IS still their property. However the only sign they made of caring about any trademark with it was using statesman and ghost widow in that short lived mobile game.

They clearly do not want to sell it. 

If anything they are probably very..... interested....in learning who it was that "creatively obtained" the code before shutdown.

As long as the private servers are not charging money to play and can show that donations only go to the servers and bandwidth only then their ability to cry foul is greatly diminished
In fearful COH-less days
In Raging COH-less nights
With Strong Hearts Full, we shall UNITE!
When all seems lost in the effort to bring CoH back to life,
Look to Cyberspace, where HOPE burns bright!

Arkasas

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #29107 on: May 25, 2019, 12:20:56 AM »
Hi folks,

I hate to ask this so directly, but I feel that I need straight information, and I don't know where or how to find it out.

I've heard from a friend on Discord that (1) NCSoft has explicitly, specifically stated that they do not care about the existence of the private servers and (2) that there is no chance of their legally laying the smack down on individual players.

As an English teacher, I take this with a bit of, "Hold on, I need a source."

Can anyone give me concrete evidence of either of the above points?

Thank you for your assistance.

There is no evidence for point 1. As far as anyone knows, they have made no public statement and are still negotiating. Point 2, on the other hand, is not quite guaranteed, but is backed up by evidence from many private servers beforehand. It's too much effort to go after every private server player, so companies would rather go after the hosts instead.

chigiabelo

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #29108 on: May 25, 2019, 06:13:11 AM »
Isn't there some aspect of law that if a company like NCSoft, knowing that other entities are violating the terms of its EULA and infringing on its intellectual property, has to attempt to stop it within a reasonable time frame, or their future case(s) against these entities will become weaker? i forget what it's called.

Sinistar

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #29109 on: May 25, 2019, 11:33:09 PM »
Isn't there some aspect of law that if a company like NCSoft, knowing that other entities are violating the terms of its EULA and infringing on its intellectual property, has to attempt to stop it within a reasonable time frame, or their future case(s) against these entities will become weaker? i forget what it's called.

Well with trademarks it is use them or lose them over time and NCsoft is not using CoH.
So eventually the trademark will lapse.  I do not know the time frame though.
In fearful COH-less days
In Raging COH-less nights
With Strong Hearts Full, we shall UNITE!
When all seems lost in the effort to bring CoH back to life,
Look to Cyberspace, where HOPE burns bright!

Taceus Jiwede

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #29110 on: May 26, 2019, 12:35:25 AM »
Hi folks,

I hate to ask this so directly, but I feel that I need straight information, and I don't know where or how to find it out.

I've heard from a friend on Discord that (1) NCSoft has explicitly, specifically stated that they do not care about the existence of the private servers and (2) that there is no chance of their legally laying the smack down on individual players.

As an English teacher, I take this with a bit of, "Hold on, I need a source."

Can anyone give me concrete evidence of either of the above points?

Thank you for your assistance.

NCSoft has not said that no.  Not in any kind of official way, so the friend either heard it from an unreliable source or is privy to information the rest of us don't have.  If NCSoft gives the okay it will likely be reported on multiple websites, forums, and discords.  But having said that, they haven't done anything yet and may never.

Well with trademarks it is use them or lose them over time and NCsoft is not using CoH.
So eventually the trademark will lapse.  I do not know the time frame though.

I am no expert so if someone knows better feel free to correct me.  But I think Trademarks last as long as they are being used for commerce and can be defended against infringement.  Copyright is 70 years though, and I am sure the characters such as Statesman and others are copyrighted.  Not sure if the Copyright of Statesman and others would allow them to hold onto their Trademark since they can still defend against it.

saipaman

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #29111 on: May 26, 2019, 06:14:18 AM »
The best way for them to protect their property is to license the game to one or more of the sites.

Sinistar

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #29112 on: May 26, 2019, 05:32:53 PM »
NCSoft has not said that no.  Not in any kind of official way, so the friend either heard it from an unreliable source or is privy to information the rest of us don't have.  If NCSoft gives the okay it will likely be reported on multiple websites, forums, and discords.  But having said that, they haven't done anything yet and may never.

I am no expert so if someone knows better feel free to correct me.  But I think Trademarks last as long as they are being used for commerce and can be defended against infringement.  Copyright is 70 years though, and I am sure the characters such as Statesman and others are copyrighted.  Not sure if the Copyright of Statesman and others would allow them to hold onto their Trademark since they can still defend against it.

Well in the world of comics it is use them or lose them.

magazine Enterprises circa 1948 made the first Ghost Rider.  Years later the company folds circa 1958.  In 1967, Dick Ayers the man who helped make the first Rider is at Marvel and tells them that the trademarks to GR are about to lapse. Stan Lee secures the rights once they lapsed.  GR (the cowboy) is rebuilt at Marvel, lasts a few issues then is cancelled as westerns were fading. In 1973, soon after the cowboy was retired, Johnny Blaze takes the name.

DC comics, the sued Fawcett over Captain Marvel/Shazam being a Superman rip off. They won. Fawcett eventually folds.  DC eventually buys up their trademarks BUT.......they didn't use them and it turns out that circa 1967 the Captain Marvel trademark was lapsed and Marvel Comics bought it up and made captain mar-vell.   This particular trademark has been a thorn in DC's side for years for as long as Marvel periodially publishes a series, mini series, one snot issue, or graphic novel titled Captain Marvel, the trademark remains theirs.

DC was able to use Captain Marvel within the pages of their books but not on the covers, until 2012 when they just said his name is now SHAZAM!

I see no activity from NCSoft of using any CoH Trademarks at this time. So until they do, the trademarks should lapse over time.   Which is likely why States and GW were used in that brief game of theirs that failed miserably.  I am presuming that reset the clock on CoH trademarks lapsing but could be in error. IT could just be for Statesman and GW and not CoH as a whole.

Current rule about trademarks is:
Even though trademarks are valid for 10 years, there some additional requirements during the first decade. After the fifth anniversary of your registration date, you'll need to file a Declaration of Use showing the mark is actively being used in business.

Another set of trademarks that still sees some contention despite the deal between DC and the Siegel/Schuster estates is the Superman trademarks.  One of the main reasons we got Superman Returns in the theaters was that movie trademarks were in danger of lapsing and I think the courts did remind them of the use it or lose it rule.   The estates do like to file the occasional reclamation paperwork when any of the Superman trademarks come up but DC always wins, at least so far.

imagine if one day DC actually DID lose the Superman rights.......they'd have to renegotiate a better deal with the estates or the comics world gets a major upheaval as DC would have to have some Crisis that wipes Superman, his supporting cast, most of his villains, the S symbol, the Fortress, Krypton, Kryptonite, Krypto, Supergirl, Superboy, etc. from their universe.
In fearful COH-less days
In Raging COH-less nights
With Strong Hearts Full, we shall UNITE!
When all seems lost in the effort to bring CoH back to life,
Look to Cyberspace, where HOPE burns bright!

Taceus Jiwede

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #29113 on: May 28, 2019, 04:09:04 AM »
Well in the world of comics it is use them or lose them.

magazine Enterprises circa 1948 made the first Ghost Rider.  Years later the company folds circa 1958.  In 1967, Dick Ayers the man who helped make the first Rider is at Marvel and tells them that the trademarks to GR are about to lapse. Stan Lee secures the rights once they lapsed.  GR (the cowboy) is rebuilt at Marvel, lasts a few issues then is cancelled as westerns were fading. In 1973, soon after the cowboy was retired, Johnny Blaze takes the name.

DC comics, the sued Fawcett over Captain Marvel/Shazam being a Superman rip off. They won. Fawcett eventually folds.  DC eventually buys up their trademarks BUT.......they didn't use them and it turns out that circa 1967 the Captain Marvel trademark was lapsed and Marvel Comics bought it up and made captain mar-vell.   This particular trademark has been a thorn in DC's side for years for as long as Marvel periodially publishes a series, mini series, one snot issue, or graphic novel titled Captain Marvel, the trademark remains theirs......

You seem to be more familiar with the topic than I am, I am curious if it weren't for their MoBA if something like this could be said for CoH.

Sinistar

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #29114 on: May 28, 2019, 04:53:51 AM »
You seem to be more familiar with the topic than I am, I am curious if it weren't for their MoBA if something like this could be said for CoH.

Well the game was closed in 2012 so presuming that in Korea it is a 10 year time limit it would have been 2022......MoBA may have reset the clock. I do not know.
In fearful COH-less days
In Raging COH-less nights
With Strong Hearts Full, we shall UNITE!
When all seems lost in the effort to bring CoH back to life,
Look to Cyberspace, where HOPE burns bright!

SinsOfApathy

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #29115 on: May 29, 2019, 03:16:31 PM »
Hi folks,

I hate to ask this so directly, but I feel that I need straight information, and I don't know where or how to find it out.

I've heard from a friend on Discord that (1) NCSoft has explicitly, specifically stated that they do not care about the existence of the private servers and (2) that there is no chance of their legally laying the smack down on individual players.

As an English teacher, I take this with a bit of, "Hold on, I need a source."

Can anyone give me concrete evidence of either of the above points?

Thank you for your assistance.

#1. NCSoft hasn't made a public statement.

Regarding #2, no players on a private server have ever had legal action taken against them for any game in existence, only those running them. Likewise, MassivelyOP ran an article from their lawyer on why it's technically not legal, but there's zero precedent of coming after players. https://massivelyop.com/2019/04/19/lawful-neutral-is-it-safe-to-play-on-city-of-heroes-inevitable-rogue-servers/

Taceus Jiwede

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #29116 on: May 29, 2019, 07:11:27 PM »
From what the Homecoming team said, the only thing NCSoft has brought up was a DMCA for the sharing of the code.  They weren't the one who personally shared it so it doesn't seem like they are very worried about any kind of legal trouble.

They said as far as they can tell NCSoft doesn't currently seem to care about the servers.  That may change in the future, but I think the chances of the individual player suffering any consequences is minuscule at best like SinsOfApathy said.


Ohioknight

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #29117 on: May 30, 2019, 02:07:47 PM »
... but I think the chances of the individual player suffering any consequences is minuscule at best like SinsOfApathy said.

If NCSoft WERE to target individual players they might run into risky territory. 

The clients people are using are the I24 BETA clients... those were released publicly and freely by Paragon Studios with no specific prohibition against re-distribution and (at least in some instances) with no EULA attached. 

Now to PLAY on the I24 Beta servers you needed to have an account and therefore have EULA'd away per everything in there -- but if you never I24'd when it was live it could be a dicey and risky thing for NCSoft to push it -- it's perfectly possible that a court could do something nasty to their legal claims that might have unfortunate future consequences for them.
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Goddangit

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #29118 on: May 30, 2019, 11:57:32 PM »
I've heard from a friend on Discord that (1) NCSoft has explicitly, specifically stated that they do not care about the existence of the private servers and (2) that there is no chance of their legally laying the smack down on individual players.

Speaking just for me, and as a layman and not a legal professional...  I have heard nothing.  In fact I had expected NCSoft to drop a train on all the private server operators and certain people in specific, but they have been eerily quiet.  Since the excrement hit the air circulator back in early April, I am reading this as grudging acquiescence.  Since the announcement of the shutdown they've basically wanted the community to shut up and go away.  Perhaps they don't consider it worth their attention or annoyance.  That said, they may well change their minds and send out a flurry of cease and desist orders any day now.  Murphy Bed comes to mind.  They lost their trademark because they didn't defend it.  Same thing happened to Aspirin, Dry Ice, Thermos...  Admittedly this is a different thing, but if they don't defend their property they may well weaken or lose standing entirely.

As for coming after individual players, doubtful.  In fact I read an article which I cannot find again where it was cited that in the history of rogue servers never once have players been pursued.  Of course that doesn't make using one legal, but the idea of them doing so would be daunting.  As of a little over a week ago there were 67,000 registered accounts and concurrency of almost 8,000 logged in to the Homecoming servers alone.  (Yeah, I've been trying to follow the story, mainly on Massively.)  That's a lot of people to pursue legally and probably would be very expensive to do so for a likely minuscule return per person.  It would be much easier to go after the operators as has been done with rogue servers in the past.

In any case, I find the explosion of activity after six years of silence interesting to say the least.  And seeing how it will all play out.

Edit: A May 28th article says Homecoming is now at 91,000 accounts, nearly 10,000 concurrent over the holiday last weekend.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2019, 01:57:04 AM by Goddangit »

MegaWatt

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #29119 on: May 31, 2019, 04:57:10 AM »
it's better if they dont say anything, dont acknowledge it at all.
If we set it on fire it'll burn....but that'd leave evidence...I KNOW ! COMPLETE ATOMIZATION! WOOOO!