Author Topic: New efforts!  (Read 7211750 times)

Ironwolf

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #9180 on: August 19, 2014, 05:25:06 PM »
Or bacon, because well its bacon!

duane

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #9181 on: August 19, 2014, 05:40:26 PM »
Ultimately this thread returns to food...

......Mmmm bacon pancakes

Felderburg

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #9182 on: August 19, 2014, 05:52:10 PM »
And I swear I can always tell WITHOUT looking at the name credit who the Massively author is.

Eliot's articles about CoH are positive and upbeat.
Justin's articles are always belittling CoH and the fact that the playerbase continues to try. (Mostly because of his inherent hard-on for SWG.)

Nothing I read in that article was "belittling".

I also see nothing wrong with a news outlet running a story about what could be a major piece of news eventually, especially since no other news site has posted about it. Especially since it's a news site for MMOs...

I'm more concerned with its accuracy - I'm under the impression it's not "players" trying to buy the game, but actual industry people - some of whom played, sure, but not the "players at large" the article makes it out to be.
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Illusionss

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #9183 on: August 19, 2014, 06:05:00 PM »
Nothing I read in that article was "belittling".

I also see nothing wrong with a news outlet running a story about what could be a major piece of news eventually, especially since no other news site has posted about it. Especially since it's a news site for MMOs...

I'm more concerned with its accuracy - I'm under the impression it's not "players" trying to buy the game, but actual industry people - some of whom played, sure, but not the "players at large" the article makes it out to be.

The article was not belittling, agreed.

Disinformation is good. Its good that bystanders think "players" are trying to buy the game. This serves the purpose of shielding the actual buyers from attention, both good and bad. We don't know who the buyers are, and right now we need NOT to know.

For those chicken-littling right now about this piece, consider that this was a small article, and it wasn't negative. It was not on the front page of Kotaku, for instance. Tens of thousands know about this effort, and when thousands of people know about a thing its no longer secret.

This could be attracting a lot more, and a lot worse attention - because if this happens it has the potential to cause a tectonic shift in the MMO world. This is a big deal. We are lucky it is this low-key, everyone keep your hair on. People are impatient, they're irritable, I completely understand - me chief among 'em -but we have to not blow stuff out of portion. Just speaking in general here.

Illusionss

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #9184 on: August 19, 2014, 06:17:49 PM »
Last night I logged my Villain main into Icon 7 and went all the way through a gigantic CoT Oranbega cave map. Past the flaming torches, over the rickety bridges, past the green glowing crystals, over the glowing floor sigils and through the triangular doorways. You know, the one that's such a pain when you have a few Masterminds on the team.

There have been few things in my adult life I wanted as badly as the chance to go there again. Please God, let this happen.

Shifter

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #9185 on: August 19, 2014, 06:18:16 PM »
It's like John Lennon said. "Imagine we had pancakes...it's easy if you try. With butter and some syrup...a stack five pancakes high. Imagine all the people, eating some today..."

Hey, you may say he's a dreamer. But he's a dreamer with pancakes.

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Netzahualcoyotl

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #9186 on: August 19, 2014, 06:23:10 PM »
Absolutely right. But what I think that the good Captain is trying to say is that it can't be both an open bag that we're all jumping in and simultaneously a huge big super-secret secret that we can't let anyone know about. :) Massively didn't find any information from anyone in this thread that they couldn't have found just by coming to this board on their own and reading it. It's an "open secret", and those are the kind that don't stay secret for long. So nobody should be yelling at anyone for sharing the secret, because it stopped being a secret for all practical purposes the moment this thread started.

The whole "I wouldn't trust Ironwolf with a secret" thing, though, I won't even begin to defend. He's clearly very good at keeping secrets, and has only shared information after confirming with the other parties involved that he can release it. That was going past the line.

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MM3squints

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #9187 on: August 19, 2014, 06:28:22 PM »
Or bacon, because well its bacon!



All hail the bacon food groups

Blackstar5

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #9188 on: August 19, 2014, 06:45:19 PM »
, everyone keep your hair on.
Is that a jab at us who have less then a full head of hair?

Serpine

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #9189 on: August 19, 2014, 06:46:00 PM »
To be honest we probably over-reacted slightly to err on the side of safety.
Following the whole Marvel lawsuit thing, for years I reported even fringe copyright violation characters of even the most obscure properties to help ensure it wouldn't happen again. I didn't really feel right if I logged off without having tagged at least a few. Probably didn't make any difference really...

My wife joked that I was so aggressive about it that it was like I was trying to earn some sort of "Snitch" badge. :)
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Captain Electric

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #9190 on: August 19, 2014, 07:00:51 PM »
Thanks OhioKnight for saying this. The questioning of Ironwolf's humility and ability to keep a secret were in poor taste IMO. But..........opinions are like pancakes everyone has one.

Mr. Ultimate, you're entitled to your opinion and you should feel comfortable sharing it. But I'm entitled to reply to the poor taste remark. I love this community and I have always had its best interests at heart. And nothing I've said here makes me any less thankful for Ironwolf's efforts. People here were saying some pretty nasty things on previous pages, stemming from mixed signals regarding information that--as it turns out--is okay to be public. I have cheered this community on for years, but it is just as genuine when I speak up about something going on that isn't okay.

I have also saluted Ironwolf and commended his efforts. Ironwolf has also admitted to mishandling some of the earlier information coming out of the negotiations. This isn't black-and-white. I'm normally less forward, and I wasn't trying to bully him, but public opinion is a more fickle thing. If the deal went south due to premature publicity, I do not expect as many of you would still be here giving Ironwolf thank-yous and high-fives. That is not a situation that I would wish on him, but it seemed like he was asking for it: giving thousands of fans information, followed by an about-face asking us not to spread it was, rationally speaking, a red flag for me. So I wanted him to clearly state whether the information we all have here is currently in the clear; because you can bet your inf that other journalists in the gaming press were crawling this thread this morning.

As previously stated, Ironwolf has my apologies for mischaracterizing his permissions from the team, because it now sounds like the negotiators are totally fine if we talk about everything, tip the press, and so on. No one should be blamed or shamed for anything, including Ironwolf--but when it seemed like community members were blaming each other for sharing Ironwolf's information prematurely, yes, I was entirely guilty of holding the source accountable for that, not any of you.

Disinformation is good. Its good that bystanders think "players" are trying to buy the game. This serves the purpose of shielding the actual buyers from attention<snip>

This isn't a private forum. Everything you're saying is out in the open. This is past the point where you can call that paranoia on my part--one member of the press has already reported on what we're talking about here. Disinformation isn't something you plan out in the open, where everyone can see what you're saying. :P
« Last Edit: August 19, 2014, 07:21:03 PM by Captain Electric »

Luna Eclypse

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #9191 on: August 19, 2014, 07:04:24 PM »
I rather think the point of saying there's a cultural difference is much the opposite of saying their motives are transparent and predictable. As I see it, at least, pointing out the divide is meant to say that these things are often inscrutable and unpredictable. The most obvious example is the collapse of the last attempt to buy the IP. Even though something as simple as publicity may be inconsequential (or even beneficial) to our way of thinking, it can be (and indeed, was) a decidedly negative thing to at least a handful of people at NCSoft. Whether that represents NCSoft culture, Korean culture, Asian culture, or just simply the mindset of a single individual in a key position, it is a critical distinction from our own way of thinking that we need to keep in mind.

That is the gist of what I meant. All of our actions during the sunset with the mail spamming and bad press seemed right to us, those kinds of campaigns can usually make a western company completely reconsider their decisions to save face with their consumers. But NCsoft is not a western company and the order to axe the game came from the home office. If anything, we harassed them on a massive scale and painted a poor picture of ourselves. Whether or not it's a cultural thing in our situation, it is a fact that the corporate world is very different in other diverse cultures to our own.
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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #9192 on: August 19, 2014, 07:05:03 PM »
I, for one, blame everyone who isn't me for not being me. Shame on all of you.
I am a defender and so can you.

Illusionss

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #9193 on: August 19, 2014, 07:15:18 PM »
Is that a jab at us who have less then a full head of hair?

Metaphorical hair, not actual for-real hair.  :P

No offense meant, apologies.

Illusionss

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #9194 on: August 19, 2014, 07:22:14 PM »
Quote
Electrical: This isn't a private forum. Everything you're saying is out in the open. This is past the point where you can call that paranoia on my part--one member of the press has already reported on what we're talking about here. Disinformation isn't something you plan out in the open, where everyone can see what you're saying.

But the point is, my saying it does not matter. It does not matter who planned what and when or where they did it, my point is that as of now, STILL no one knows who the purchasing team is. And that's a good thing, because poor Ironwolf is under enough pressure now and imagine how wild things would get if people knew who the real buyers were! It would be x 1000 harassment, cheers, kudos, flames, insults, belittling and trolls sending copies of their credit reports to NCSoft. Ironwolf is shielding them and he's getting a lot of the headache that would otherwise devolve onto them. Which is very nice of him to do.

So if the press wants to report that "the players" are buying the game, good. That defuses and deflects attention away from those trying to pull this little miracle off, even more than now.... because "the players" is a group of people tens of thousands strong, right? Or however many were still subbed at shutdown. Picking the actual buyers out of that pool of names is not gonna be easy.

Good.  8)

Captain Electric

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #9195 on: August 19, 2014, 07:28:52 PM »
But the point is, my saying it does not matter. It does not matter who planned what and when or where they did it, my point is that as of now, STILL no one knows who the purchasing team is. And that's a good thing, because poor Ironwolf is under enough pressure now and imagine how wild things would get if people knew who the real buyers were! It would be x 1000 harassment, cheers, kudos, flames, insults, belittling and trolls sending copies of their credit reports to NCSoft. Ironwolf is shielding them and he's getting a lot of the headache that would otherwise devolve onto them. Which is very nice of him to do.

So if the press wants to report that "the players" are buying the game, good. That defuses and deflects attention away from those trying to pull this little miracle off, even more than now.... because "the players" is a group of people tens of thousands strong, right? Or however many were still subbed at shutdown. Picking the actual buyers out of that pool of names is not gonna be easy.

Good.  8)

Well okay yes, on all of that we do agree wholeheartedly (contrary to what it may seem like to some of you).

AlienOne

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #9196 on: August 19, 2014, 07:29:59 PM »
Disinformation is good. Its good that bystanders think "players" are trying to buy the game. This serves the purpose of shielding the actual buyers from attention, both good and bad. We don't know who the buyers are, and right now we need NOT to know.

Spoken like a true Illusionist.
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Illusionss

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #9197 on: August 19, 2014, 07:33:13 PM »
That is the gist of what I meant. All of our actions during the sunset with the mail spamming and bad press seemed right to us, those kinds of campaigns can usually make a western company completely reconsider their decisions to save face with their consumers. But NCsoft is not a western company and the order to axe the game came from the home office. If anything, we harassed them on a massive scale and painted a poor picture of ourselves. Whether or not it's a cultural thing in our situation, it is a fact that the corporate world is very different in other diverse cultures to our own.

I would think that this would be viewed as a tremendous OPPORTUNITY to regain lost face by NCSoft, I can't see one single negative for them resulting from the sale of the game. It would soften a lot of ire and ease harsh attitudes toward the company, at least somewhat. Why would they not want that to happen? But what do I know.

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #9198 on: August 19, 2014, 07:34:02 PM »
My only issue with the article is the complete lack of research that went into the article. The misconceptions start with the title and go on from there. I figured something would hit the web sooner than later, but I wish that it was a more accurate "something" than what was posted. So much for investigative reporting LOL!.

ivanhedgehog

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #9199 on: August 19, 2014, 07:36:35 PM »
Is that a jab at us who have less then a full head of hair?

I am detecting a certain feeling towards the foliclly challenged here.