Author Topic: New efforts!  (Read 7285542 times)

Rejolt

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #17740 on: June 11, 2015, 03:51:21 PM »
>:(

Aye.  *Boots up ICON for a play...

Azrael.

Oddly enough, I'm using ICON to create avatars for the ICONS pen and paper rpg. And keeping nostalgia alive. I keep using the Sex on the City line that it takes half as long to get over a relationship as you were in it (provided you didn't fall in love just hard with someone else).

By my count we've got about two years on that clock to keep the majority of the hardcore interested.
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Azrael

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #17741 on: June 11, 2015, 04:09:59 PM »
Oddly enough, I'm using ICON to create avatars for the ICONS pen and paper rpg. And keeping nostalgia alive. I keep using the Sex on the City line that it takes half as long to get over a relationship as you were in it (provided you didn't fall in love just hard with someone else).

By my count we've got about two years on that clock to keep the majority of the hardcore interested.

I think with another two years...I think the ICON team will have more than the 'mystery' project behind them.  I could well see a chat window, some mob spawning and proof of combat on a Micro Server.  I'll presume that such efforts will build on the mystery project.  Directly or indirectly.

...and there's the 'ongoing talks' of course...

Azrael.

JanessaVR

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #17742 on: June 11, 2015, 04:14:04 PM »
I think with another two years...I think the ICON team will have more than the 'mystery' project behind them.  I could well see a chat window, some mob spawning and proof of combat on a Micro Server.
For the ICON team, my money is on them having done what I suggested something like a year and half ago.  A server where we can all login together and chat, fly around, etc.  No powers, no missions, no enemies, but the community can come together online again.  That's my bet on what they've done.

FloatingFatMan

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #17743 on: June 11, 2015, 04:17:55 PM »
For the ICON team, my money is on them having done what I suggested something like a year and half ago.  A server where we can all login together and chat, fly around, etc.  No powers, no missions, no enemies, but the community can come together online again.  That's my bet on what they've done.

If they've done that, I predict many donuts and cases of beer arriving at their domiciles... That would fully enable RPing again!

duane

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #17744 on: June 11, 2015, 04:18:47 PM »
For the ICON team, my money is on them having done what I suggested something like a year and half ago.  A server where we can all login together and chat, fly around, etc.  No powers, no missions, no enemies, but the community can come together online again.  That's my bet on what they've done.

A parallel pocket universe... Without powers! 

JanessaVR

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #17745 on: June 11, 2015, 04:34:47 PM »
If they've done that, I predict many donuts and cases of beer arriving at their domiciles...that would fully enable RPing again!
Indeed.  If that can be done, then CoH would be arguably back at that point.  Filling in gameplay can come later, but the community would be back together again, flying around Paragon City, the Rogue Isles, and Praetoria, able to hang out in our latest costumes.  If the train stations, portals, etc. would be active again with a list of any zone in the game, you could almost fool yourself into thinking that everything was restored.

Twisted Toon

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #17746 on: June 11, 2015, 04:50:19 PM »
As a programmer, I am intensely critical of most other programmers.  I pride myself on code with a standardized structure and naming conventions, clear in-code commented documentation of each section of code, and formalized code documentation files, which are neatly organized and specifically designed to be read and understood by non-techies.

The vast majority of programmers I have ever met fall greatly short of this standard and I consider them to be lazy and undisciplined.
When I took programming in college, years ago, they were always saying, "Document your code. You make changes; document it. You add anything; document it. You take anything away; document it." Is that a standard thing in programming classes, or was I just one of the lucky ones to get an instructor (actually, three of them) that teaches that along with programming?

Of course, a lot of the code that I wrote for my own personal use wasn't documented...but then. It WAS for my own personal use. If I were to make it available for the public, I would add documentation. Not that there isn't stuff out there that could do wht my stuff did much more betterer.
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Twisted Toon

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #17747 on: June 11, 2015, 04:51:59 PM »
Indeed.  If that can be done, then CoH would be arguably back at that point.  Filling in gameplay can come later, but the community would be back together again, flying around Paragon City, the Rogue Isles, and Praetoria, able to hang out in our latest costumes.  If the train stations, portals, etc. would be active again with a list of any zone in the game, you could almost fool yourself into thinking that everything was restored.

Well, the criminals will have to find a way to hack into the server to get back into the city, so, understandably, they would show up later.  :P
Hope never abandons you, you abandon it. - George Weinberg

Hope ... is not a feeling; it is something you do. - Katherine Paterson

Nobody really cares if you're miserable, so you might as well be happy. - Cynthia Nelms

Remaugen

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #17748 on: June 11, 2015, 04:55:29 PM »
Be thankful you missed the noodle implements link.  We can't keep sending search parties to retrieve people who keep falling for that trap.

*D'oh!*

I had to go back and look. . .
We're almost there!  ;D

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LaughingAlex

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #17749 on: June 11, 2015, 05:09:51 PM »
*D'oh!*

I had to go back and look. . .

Funny, some of my troubleshooting literally involved guiding people around a site with...not the best links at it due to a level of pickiness with supported software.  I think they needed more on programming.
Currently; Not doing any streaming, found myself with less time available recently.  Still playing starbound periodically, though I am thinking of trying other games.  Don't tell me to play mmohtg's though please :).  Getting back into participating in VO and the successors again to.

Arcana

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #17750 on: June 11, 2015, 06:38:46 PM »
If you want to be paid as a programmer, your first task is to write code that works.  The client does not care how neat and tidy it looks.  The client does not care about the in-code documentation.  What the client cares about is he getting what he paid for and on time.  Everything else is secondary.  Documentation is great, but not at the expense of on time delivery of working code.

Technically, you don't have to write code that works to get paid.  You only have to convince people your work was worth being paid for.  This industry is full of people far better at convincing people to pay for work than delivering work.  If your priority is getting paid, focusing on functionality is not your best path to success.  Nor is it the most commonly successful one.

Aggelakis

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #17751 on: June 11, 2015, 06:57:38 PM »
If you want to be paid as a programmer, your first task is to write code that works.  The client does not care how neat and tidy it looks.  The client does not care about the in-code documentation.  What the client cares about is he getting what he paid for and on time.  Everything else is secondary.  Documentation is great, but not at the expense of on time delivery of working code.
You're wrong. Have you SEEN some of the dreck that's out there? It doesn't work half the time (or at all), it's finished late more than it's on time (and it's pretty much NEVER done early), but someone got paid for it.
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hurple

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #17752 on: June 11, 2015, 06:59:34 PM »
When I took programming in college, years ago, they were always saying, "Document your code. You make changes; document it. You add anything; document it. You take anything away; document it." Is that a standard thing in programming classes, or was I just one of the lucky ones to get an instructor (actually, three of them) that teaches that along with programming?

Of course, a lot of the code that I wrote for my own personal use wasn't documented...but then. It WAS for my own personal use. If I were to make it available for the public, I would add documentation. Not that there isn't stuff out there that could do wht my stuff did much more betterer.

I was taught all that in college too. But, as a working analyst, my company *never* allocates enough time to code the way it should be and usually barely enough to get it actually working.


Arcana

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #17753 on: June 11, 2015, 07:20:57 PM »
I was taught all that in college too. But, as a working analyst, my company *never* allocates enough time to code the way it should be and usually barely enough to get it actually working.

If you were working at a construction company, say, and your were given insufficient time or resources to build a building the proper way, would you continue working properly until time and resources ran out, not knowing if that meant you would get more resources or get fired, or would you cut every corner you needed to until you were certain you'd finish the building on time.

In both the construction industry and in the software industry, there are individuals and companies that will cut whatever corners need to be cut to deliver something within unreasonable requirements.  The critical difference is that in most other industries, that isn't a source of pride.

There's a saying in engineering: code is written in blood.  What that means is that the rules and regulations we follow as engineers are often only written after a mistake kills people; then and only then do we decide that maybe we shouldn't do that anymore.  In that respect, the engineering disciplines are rather dumb, in that in a sense, they only advance through literal human sacrifice.

Programming as a discipline is, by that standard, brain dead.  Programming failures have caused deaths just like any other technical discipline.  But unlike basically all of them the software development industry as a profession has never adopted a single professional rule ever regardless of blood spilled.  Software development as an industry has no actual rules explicit to it at all, the odd methodological standard notwithstanding.

Sometimes, when I say this, someone will say that software is too complicated to be regulated by the same kinds of rules that regulate all other forms of engineering.  My stock reply to them is: only the way you do it.

FloatingFatMan

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #17754 on: June 11, 2015, 07:55:29 PM »
You're wrong. Have you SEEN some of the dreck that's out there? It doesn't work half the time (or at all), it's finished late more than it's on time (and it's pretty much NEVER done early), but someone got paid for it.

Some of the stuff I've seen in various open source projects has made me visibly shudder...

ivanhedgehog

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #17755 on: June 11, 2015, 08:16:01 PM »
If you were working at a construction company, say, and your were given insufficient time or resources to build a building the proper way, would you continue working properly until time and resources ran out, not knowing if that meant you would get more resources or get fired, or would you cut every corner you needed to until you were certain you'd finish the building on time.

In both the construction industry and in the software industry, there are individuals and companies that will cut whatever corners need to be cut to deliver something within unreasonable requirements.  The critical difference is that in most other industries, that isn't a source of pride.

There's a saying in engineering: code is written in blood.  What that means is that the rules and regulations we follow as engineers are often only written after a mistake kills people; then and only then do we decide that maybe we shouldn't do that anymore.  In that respect, the engineering disciplines are rather dumb, in that in a sense, they only advance through literal human sacrifice.

Programming as a discipline is, by that standard, brain dead.  Programming failures have caused deaths just like any other technical discipline.  But unlike basically all of them the software development industry as a profession has never adopted a single professional rule ever regardless of blood spilled.  Software development as an industry has no actual rules explicit to it at all, the odd methodological standard notwithstanding.

Sometimes, when I say this, someone will say that software is too complicated to be regulated by the same kinds of rules that regulate all other forms of engineering.  My stock reply to them is: only the way you do it.

you are right, look at the nasa mistake that crashed a probe into mars because they forgot to convert miles to meters. engineering is every bit as complicated as programming, yet they can still have rules for it. the programming industry just doesnt want the cost

hurple

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #17756 on: June 11, 2015, 09:01:34 PM »
If you were working at a construction company, say, and your were given insufficient time or resources to build a building the proper way, would you continue working properly until time and resources ran out, not knowing if that meant you would get more resources or get fired, or would you cut every corner you needed to until you were certain you'd finish the building on time.

In both the construction industry and in the software industry, there are individuals and companies that will cut whatever corners need to be cut to deliver something within unreasonable requirements.  The critical difference is that in most other industries, that isn't a source of pride.

There's a saying in engineering: code is written in blood.  What that means is that the rules and regulations we follow as engineers are often only written after a mistake kills people; then and only then do we decide that maybe we shouldn't do that anymore.  In that respect, the engineering disciplines are rather dumb, in that in a sense, they only advance through literal human sacrifice.

Programming as a discipline is, by that standard, brain dead.  Programming failures have caused deaths just like any other technical discipline.  But unlike basically all of them the software development industry as a profession has never adopted a single professional rule ever regardless of blood spilled.  Software development as an industry has no actual rules explicit to it at all, the odd methodological standard notwithstanding.

Sometimes, when I say this, someone will say that software is too complicated to be regulated by the same kinds of rules that regulate all other forms of engineering.  My stock reply to them is: only the way you do it.

Agree with every word.  I wasn't bragging, I was complaining.   :o

The worst part is, they give us an assignment, need the code NOW, written , tested and out the door in the time that should be spent just designing the UI... Need it fast to beat the competitors... Then, after it's all done and out the door, we sit for months with little to nothing to do while waiting on the next idea.


LaughingAlex

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #17757 on: June 11, 2015, 09:17:45 PM »
Agree with every word.  I wasn't bragging, I was complaining.   :o

The worst part is, they give us an assignment, need the code NOW, written , tested and out the door in the time that should be spent just designing the UI... Need it fast to beat the competitors... Then, after it's all done and out the door, we sit for months with little to nothing to do while waiting on the next idea.

And then later some computer hacker wearing a black hat discovers it, sets out a devious plan to exploit it, launches an attack, goes ahead and plugs your accident for you but leaves a back door of his own open to do other, nasty things to your company :).

Honestly one would think they'd let the info sec guys bully, pressure, the idiots who push such foolish policies so that the computer world could be a bit more proactive against faulty code and whatnot but alas, everything at the cost of money is all that matters to businesses.  I recall an instructor of mine said the same thing Arcana said; it takes a tragedy to get people do finally do things right.  Which is a shame.
Currently; Not doing any streaming, found myself with less time available recently.  Still playing starbound periodically, though I am thinking of trying other games.  Don't tell me to play mmohtg's though please :).  Getting back into participating in VO and the successors again to.

ivanhedgehog

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #17758 on: June 11, 2015, 09:44:34 PM »
And then later some computer hacker wearing a black hat discovers it, sets out a devious plan to exploit it, launches an attack, goes ahead and plugs your accident for you but leaves a back door of his own open to do other, nasty things to your company :).

Honestly one would think they'd let the info sec guys bully, pressure, the idiots who push such foolish policies so that the computer world could be a bit more proactive against faulty code and whatnot but alas, everything at the cost of money is all that matters to businesses.  I recall an instructor of mine said the same thing Arcana said; it takes a tragedy to get people do finally do things right.  Which is a shame.

ask target what that cost them. so many outsourced projects being used that probably already have backdoors built in

LaughingAlex

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #17759 on: June 11, 2015, 10:02:23 PM »
ask target what that cost them. so many outsourced projects being used that probably already have backdoors built in

No kidding right?  The funny thing though is often it's the company itself that makes the critical mistakes.  All to often to shave costs and production inconveniences they'll ask for the silliest of things, such as having programmers who know nothing about encryption and have little to no experience with encryption write the encryption algorithm, a crippling mistake, as experts of encryption often know the tricks a non expert would use.  The thing is without an expert actually looking at your cryptographic algorithm the odds of a huge mistake would be extremely high.  Even more-so when you consider how much time an attacker might actually spend, which is true of all forms of info security.  They spend months and sometimes even more than a year just gathering information they could use(before launching the actual attack).

Many more mistakes of which are in the policies themselves.  Never for example let anyone else back-draft with you into the building.  Should be common sense but you'd be surprised how often people do it.  And often it's very easy for a hacker to sneak into the building that way.  Or how often emails get out that shouldn't be getting out.  Or people giving company-side email addresses to people not in the company or even posting them in plain view.

You could have the best Intrusion detection, excellent firewalls, and the best cryptography and then end up circumvented because a security guard wasn't watching the front door and some guy drifted in behind someone else who thought he was a legitimate employee :/.

It's how Mitnick started most of his attacks :/.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2015, 10:12:07 PM by LaughingAlex »
Currently; Not doing any streaming, found myself with less time available recently.  Still playing starbound periodically, though I am thinking of trying other games.  Don't tell me to play mmohtg's though please :).  Getting back into participating in VO and the successors again to.