Author Topic: New efforts!  (Read 7297512 times)

MegaWatt

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #17920 on: June 16, 2015, 11:24:08 PM »
I cannot contribute in any way to this conversation so i am just going to say what i usually said when people in my VG's OOC channel started talking builds: BRUTES AND STALKERS RULE WOOOOOO !
If we set it on fire it'll burn....but that'd leave evidence...I KNOW ! COMPLETE ATOMIZATION! WOOOO!

Arcana

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #17921 on: June 16, 2015, 11:46:37 PM »
I cannot contribute in any way to this conversation so i am just going to say what i usually said when people in my VG's OOC channel started talking builds: BRUTES AND STALKERS RULE WOOOOOO !

Controllers tended to rule everywhere else besides woooooo.

JanessaVR

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #17922 on: June 17, 2015, 12:27:58 AM »
Controllers tended to rule everywhere else besides woooooo.
Agreed.  By the end of the game I was playing Controllers exclusively.  Most other classes had lost their appeal for me.

Winter Fable

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #17923 on: June 17, 2015, 12:41:30 AM »
I cannot contribute in any way to this conversation so i am just going to say what i usually said when people in my VG's OOC channel started talking builds: BRUTES AND STALKERS RULE WOOOOOO !
Brutes and Stalkers Rule???????What!!!Stalkers are like snipers in FPS games.Not much help.
Give me a Defender any day :)And Brutes!!!They were good for farming...:)

Arcana

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #17924 on: June 17, 2015, 12:53:44 AM »
Agreed.  By the end of the game I was playing Controllers exclusively.  Most other classes had lost their appeal for me.

I still played everything else, because even though my energy blaster couldn't rule woooooo, she could still carve an impressive path of destruction through downtown woooooo.


In other news, apparently I won the Macromillion Powerball lottery today, which has a prize of 2.5 million dollars and a white Mercedes.  All I need to do is send them $190 to register me in their prize database to send me my prizes.  I suggested he take $190 from my prize to pay for that, but apparently it doesn't work that way.  I also asked if I could deliver the registration fee in person, but apparently the company doesn't allow for that.  That's unfortunate, because I was hoping to get some travel out of this, and so was Buster, my baseball bat.

One of these days one of these criminal masterminds will say something traceable.  I've always felt that if you're a hunter, you should hunt real game.  Shooting a duck is not hunting, its live skeet shooting (but still fine if you eat the duck).  Hunting a bear, now that's a sport, because its a game you can lose.  Conning grandmothers out of their life savings and their ability to live peacefully in retirement is shooting ducks chained to fences.  I live for the day one of these guys wakes up in the morning thinking he's perforating ducks, and discovers he fired at a bear instead.

Auroxis

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #17925 on: June 17, 2015, 12:58:02 AM »
Compare what fort does to one team member at a time to what a widow or time, e.g. can do permanently to the whole team. Similarly RA and AB were great, but IO builds are likely to have endurance pretty well taken care of, and i'd rather have other forms of mitigation such as dark's crippling -to hit or a troller/dom's mezzing than extra regen in most cases. And of course you could easily have a rad giving similar buffs but also debuffing the hell out of everything. There's nothing wrong with empathy, and of course if played well it's helpful, it's just that in most high level cases (i.e. other than hami, states, keyes) I'd rather have something else because what empathy does well a team can get from other sources which have other benefits.

Widow didn't have the passive heals or active heals as a safety cushion like Empathy did, and Time was pretty baller except for not being able to heal (both actively and passively) quite as well. Endurance support aside, neither of them had mez protection which couldn't be gotten from IO's.

Keep in mind Fortitude still has a damage buff, so even if people don't need defense the damage is always welcome. Then there's Adrenalin Boost as well for the fast recharging crash-less nukes which made every blaster's day.

Time was amazing but introduced later into the game, I agree it made Empathy less relevant (PBU Farsight was craaaazy).

Vee

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #17926 on: June 17, 2015, 01:09:11 AM »
Yeah but the point is with those you don't usually need heals. And my veats were always buffing the team for 30% damage from double assault, which made up for that advantage to fort some.

Also stalkers were amazing after the changes (though a decent part of that was from the AT proc that was going to be nerfed significantly by the global proc adjustments if i understood all that correctly).

Felderburg

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #17927 on: June 17, 2015, 01:10:09 AM »
Regarding empaths: I was rarely, if ever, on a team with an empath that didn't say "gather for RA" and everyone immediately rushed to them. So clearly people knew what was up.

I personally kept 6 people Fort'd constantly, and sometimes even 7 if I had someone feeding me recharge.

That's pretty intense.

But I believe that had the game continued on, as the devs continued to add content to the system (including non-raid content that offered incarnate XP) it had the potential to be this new thing that was half gear and half linear progression with the addition of a spectrum of families of linear progression.

This seems to be either at odds with or a grander vision than the Lore AMA answer: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Lore_AMA/Sorted#180 (in short, there would be another 10 tiers added, and Alpha through Omega would be made easy to get, and ad infinitum).

I enjoyed my elec/elec Scrapper.  I found my elec/elec Stalker a revelation of Palpatine proportions despite vowing I'd never play such a cowardly type.  So much I tried.  Even a psi Domi.

I cackled with glee the first time I finally went villain and shanked a prisoner in the tutorial from Hide.

Great...now I need to make The Burning Bush

LOL.  ...yes, literally.

Stalkers are like snipers in FPS games. Not much help.

Please expand on this (the snipers in FPS part).
I used CIT before they even joined the Titan network! But then I left for a long ol' time, and came back. Now I edit the wiki.

I'm working on sorting the Lore AMAs so that questions are easily found and linked: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Lore_AMA/Sorted Tell me what you think!

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Winter Fable

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #17928 on: June 17, 2015, 01:21:05 AM »
Snipers are always yelled at for not being much help in chat.Before the changes the stalkers I teamed with seemed to die
faster than blasters so they would not only use hide they stayed hidden :)

Arcana

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #17929 on: June 17, 2015, 01:34:32 AM »
This seems to be either at odds with or a grander vision than the Lore AMA answer: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Lore_AMA/Sorted#180 (in short, there would be another 10 tiers added, and Alpha through Omega would be made easy to get, and ad infinitum).

I had several years to work on the devs before we reached Omega.  In any case, Matt is speaking a truism: there's no such thing as the last anything in an MMO: the short answer to what to do when you run out of something is to make more something.  That's MMO dev 101.  But what you do with the existing stuff in the meantime is difficult to predict, particularly because Matt wasn't the only design voice involved.  He was probably the most important one where it came to Incarnate powers, but my impression is he tended to be pretty open to suggestion.  The devs also stated point-blank while the game was still running that the long term plan was to increase the number of ways to earn incarnate slots and powers.  What shape those other ways took could have been trivial, or could have been more complex, depending primarily on the creativity of the devs at the time and the amount of resources they had to work with.

GenericHero05

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #17930 on: June 17, 2015, 01:38:27 AM »
During the most worrisome or stressful times in my life I was able to turn to this amazing game as a relief or a distraction or at least a pause to what was troubling me. I miss that so much now. I cannot wait to hear the sounds of super speed kick-in or the "ding" of someone levelling or the distinct sound  and rush of a freakshow "rezzing" right behind me after I thought I had finally put him down. I miss this EVERY day. I play no other MMO and I don't think I ever could. God, how I miss this... please give us this back.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2015, 02:43:31 AM by makjwalton »
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blacksly

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #17931 on: June 17, 2015, 02:33:04 AM »
I cannot contribute in any way to this conversation so i am just going to say what i usually said when people in my VG's OOC channel started talking builds: BRUTES AND STALKERS RULE WOOOOOO !

What I found amusing was that Stalkers, Brutes, and Scrappers vie in one way or another for single-target damage. And there was a Scrapper Challenge thread (which is still available online), that ran to lots of pages, with mostly Scrappers (and other melee ATs) talking about their single-target DPS against Rikti Pylons. Every once in a while, a Controller would post and ask if his time to kill the pylon was good, and I snickered since clearly the Controller didn't read the thread thoroughly enough to see that these times ran up on the first try by some Controllers were ahead of the best times for most purpled-out Scrappers who had tried the challenge several times and tweaked their builds for it.

So, yeah, Brutes and Stalkers rule the WOOOOOO story arc. But the squishies beat them badly in DPS (especially considering that Demon/Storm is probably higher than any Controller in single-target DPS, and that many Controllers were ahead of any of the melee ATs).

srmalloy

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #17932 on: June 17, 2015, 03:18:22 AM »
To a min maxer they are powerful milestones.

25 = SO and early IO range

35 = Larger number of enhancement slots. (I know, that starts in the 30s but 35 is when you really notice it)
Edit: Also various TF's are available at 35+.

I remember 12 as the first milestone; that was when you could run the University missions and start crafting IOs; the 15 and 20 IOs were better than the DOs you could slot at 12 and 17.

22 was the 'now I can upgrade to SOs' point -- the earliest you could slot the readily-available 25s, where I would burn a freespec to recover as many of the 'expensive' 12 and 17 IOs as possible and slot SOs.

And 35 was the point at which the common IOs became better than SOs, and I'd switch back to IOs and stay with them through to 50.

JanessaVR

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #17933 on: June 17, 2015, 03:37:06 AM »
I've always felt that if you're a hunter, you should hunt real game.  Shooting a duck is not hunting, its live skeet shooting (but still fine if you eat the duck).  Hunting a bear, now that's a sport, because its a game you can lose.
I guess you would have liked my uncle, then.  He was the original "Great White Hunter."  He used to go wild boar hunting, and I saw one of the ones he shot and had mounted.  That thing was the size of a bull on steroids, with tusks longer than my hand.  I think I lost a point of SAN the first time I was that close to stuffed and mounted one.  I remember yelling "You were on the ground, hunting that?!  In person?!  Are you completely insane?!"  My recommendation for hunting those monsters would have involved close air support...I'm not even sure hiding in a tree blind with a Barrett .50 rifle would have made me feel all that much safer near those things.  I might actually prefer the bear, except that they can climb trees.

Twisted Toon

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #17934 on: June 17, 2015, 03:38:20 AM »
I cannot contribute in any way to this conversation so i am just going to say what i usually said when people in my VG's OOC channel started talking builds: BRUTES AND STALKERS RULE WOOOOOO !

Controllers tended to rule everywhere else besides woooooo.

I think I'm going to be giggling about this while I'm at work tomorrow.  :D
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Hope ... is not a feeling; it is something you do. - Katherine Paterson

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Sinistar

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #17935 on: June 17, 2015, 03:49:52 AM »
I guess you would have liked my uncle, then.  He was the original "Great White Hunter."  He used to go wild boar hunting, and I saw one of the ones he shot and had mounted.  That thing was the size of a bull on steroids, with tusks longer than my hand.  I think I lost a point of SAN the first time I was that close to stuffed and mounted one.  I remember yelling "You were on the ground, hunting that?!  In person?!  Are you completely insane?!"  My recommendation for hunting those monsters would have involved close air support...I'm not even sure hiding in a tree blind with a Barrett .50 rifle would have made me feel all that much safer near those things.  I might actually prefer the bear, except that they can climb trees.

Hunt the boar using the same tactics Rambo used in First Blood. :)
In fearful COH-less days
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When all seems lost in the effort to bring CoH back to life,
Look to Cyberspace, where HOPE burns bright!

Vee

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #17936 on: June 17, 2015, 04:01:16 AM »
I remember 12 as the first milestone; that was when you could run the University missions and start crafting IOs; the 15 and 20 IOs were better than the DOs you could slot at 12 and 17.

22 was the 'now I can upgrade to SOs' point -- the earliest you could slot the readily-available 25s, where I would burn a freespec to recover as many of the 'expensive' 12 and 17 IOs as possible and slot SOs.

I just had an unused alt that lived in penny yin's store to email out pre-SO SOs to other alts.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2015, 05:15:04 AM by Vee »

srmalloy

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #17937 on: June 17, 2015, 04:05:53 AM »
What motivates the powers that be at NCSoft is hard to discern.  I think the fearsome negative reaction by the CoH fan base caught them by surprise.  It dwarfed the sort of reactions they had experienced when they closed down some of their other games.  However, if you've monitored other boards and news sites on the net that deal with mmorpgs you've undoubtedly noticed there was a negative reaction among gaming fans of all stripes.

From the various postings on glassdoor regarding working for NCsoft, the company appears to be fixated on a "We're a Korean company, run according to Korean business practices, and all of our subsidiaries will be, too, regardless of where they're based" management style. Firing people out of the blue on a Friday, for example, is considered courteous to the employee, in that they don't have to come into work with the spectre of failure hanging over their head, and have the weekend to compose themselves. And Korean culture has always had a very strong habit of deference to the people above you in the power structure, and deference from the people below you in the power structure; when your superiors make a decision, it is your duty to accept it and work within the parameters of that decision. Had NCsoft shut down one of their Korean MMOs, the playerbase would have mostly taken it quietly, as befits their position in the player-vs-developer power structure. But CoH wasn't a Korean MMO, as its abortive deployment there proved; it was a Western MMO, with Western players, for whom having management sweep in with what looks like an offhand decision with no explanation is not only outrageous behavior but insulting -- "we're closing the game; suck it up."

When we protested the decision, the NCsoft management actually unbent to the degree of releasing the statement that CoH didn't fit with their future plans for the company -- an unusually considerate move by their view, giving a reason that the game was being shuttered, but again being blind to the fact that they weren't addressing a Korean audience. The essentially content-free 'explanation' for the shutdown just fanned resentment among the playerbase, reinforcing the perception of NCsoft as being unjustifiably high-handed about the action.

I think that the fundamental problem is that NCsoft is, at its core, a Korean company, and as such only pays such lip service to the practices of other cultures as they're forced into, and as long as they're in the power position they don't care that other cultures aren't going to react the same way Koreans do. Given some of the things I've read about Korean business practices, I wonder how much of the shutdown was CoH underperforming and how much was Paragon Studios taking the wrong approach to trying to buy themselves away from NCsoft and the NCsoft management finally getting tired of the Paragon Studios negotiators not being able to recognize that they'd been told 'no' in a way that any Korean negotiator would have recognized, but kept coming back again and again trying to work out a deal that was never going to happen, until NCsoft ordered the studio shut down because the PS management didn't know their place.

And, yes, that's a very prejudiced opinion of NCsoft management, but what I've seen about the way they conduct business suggests that they try to force everything they do into their own cultural mode. City of Heroes didn't play like a Korean-style MMO; it encouraged individuality and personal achievement, rather than having working together as part of a group being the core mode of gameplay, it didn't have the sort of recordkeeping that could be used to drive leaderboards (look at how long before the shutdown the City Information Terminals stopped giving stats on victories in the various zones), it didn't have the potential for endless microtransactions to sell cosmetic gear on a character-by-character basis, the endgame didn't consist of nothing but PvP, with better PvP gear being available for more microtransactions... It was essentially the opposite of most of the fundamental design considerations of a Korean MMO, and as such NCsoft didn't really understand what made CoH what it was. And because of that, they were blindsided when they ordered the shutdown and the playerbase turned on them.

Winter Fable

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #17938 on: June 17, 2015, 04:27:22 AM »
What I found amusing was that Stalkers, Brutes, and Scrappers vie in one way or another for single-target damage. And there was a Scrapper Challenge thread (which is still available online), that ran to lots of pages, with mostly Scrappers (and other melee ATs) talking about their single-target DPS against Rikti Pylons. Every once in a while, a Controller would post and ask if his time to kill the pylon was good, and I snickered since clearly the Controller didn't read the thread thoroughly enough to see that these times ran up on the first try by some Controllers were ahead of the best times for most purpled-out Scrappers who had tried the challenge several times and tweaked their builds for it.

So, yeah, Brutes and Stalkers rule the WOOOOOO story arc. But the squishies beat them badly in DPS (especially considering that Demon/Storm is probably higher than any Controller in single-target DPS, and that many Controllers were ahead of any of the melee ATs).
I can't believe I missed that thread on the old forum.I'm going to read it tonight and I would like to see that Demon/Storm build.

Rejolt

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #17939 on: June 17, 2015, 04:31:57 AM »
Then am I mad that NCSoft got the game then? Yes!

Would the game have lived on as long without it getting the game outright from Cryptic? I can't answer but I'll give NCSoft credit for that and the much better game CoX became under Paragon Studios. I never once felt forced into micro transactions and gambling that I have to do in other games.
Rejolt Industries LLC is now a thing. Woo!