Author Topic: New efforts!  (Read 2396334 times)

Zerohour

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27360 on: April 20, 2017, 01:10:08 AM »
yes but has CoT delivered on their promises with the Kickstarter?  That has surely left a sour taste in the mouths of the backers of CoT and potential future backers of SoH. 

yes, people want CoH but it looks like SoH could be the one.
some of you are putting waaaay too much faith in SoH.  when a 3rd of the dev team is from the same family and 2 out of 3 of them barely look older than high school graduates, im not inclined to take them very seriously

Nyx Nought Nothing

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27361 on: April 20, 2017, 01:34:52 AM »
some of you are putting waaaay too much faith in SoH.  when a 3rd of the dev team is from the same family and 2 out of 3 of them barely look older than high school graduates, im not inclined to take them very seriously
i looked barely older than a high school graduate until my late thirties, so that's not exactly a big sticking point for me, but at this moment i still have more confidence in CoT and VO. This is in part because the initial Ship of Heroes announcement looked like it was using quickly photoshopped CoH assets, which seemed to suggest they'd just gotten started and threw together whatever. The later stuff was far more professional looking.
Regardless i'll support whatever games come closest to emulating the parts of CoH i liked best while improving on the parts i liked least. CO didn't do that for me because i found their combat mechanics, writing, and art style annoying. Other than that it was pretty good. Oh, wait, when PWE bought the game they eventually changed the account system and it bolluxed up my account so that i could no longer log in. That part wasn't so good either...
Anyway, my point is that if SoH does eventually launch a halfway decent game i'll play it.
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Arcana

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27362 on: April 20, 2017, 02:37:10 AM »
The swap was not over "whitewashing" but over the half-billion dollars Marvel would have lost had they kept the character Tibetan. The further away from the original comic book character it was, the less of a concern over China banning its distribution became.

The problem with this theory is that they could have killed two birds with one stone and cast a Chinese guy in the role.  I mean, if you're trying to appease the Chinese government, why wouldn't you just cast a Chinese person in one of the central roles?

I wish I could have been in the room when this discussion went down:

Exec 1: we need to rewrite the role of the Ancient One
Exec 2: Why?
Exec 1: He's Tibetan.  The Chinese government will never let us distribute the movie in China if one of the heroes is Tibetan.
Exec 3: Why not just rewrite him as Chinese.  Its not like American movie goers will notice the difference anyway.
Exec 1: I was thinking about making the Ancient One a Caucasian woman.
Exec 2: Come again?
Exec 3: Yeah, how does this help us with the Chinese market again?
Exec 1: We can make her a Celtic wizard, or druid, or whatever they are.
Exec 2: So how are we going to rewrite this movie so it takes place in Britain?
Exec 1: We're not going to relocate the setting; its going to be set in Nepal.
Exec 2: So why not make the Ancient One Nepalese? 
Exec 3: I'm still scratching my head over casting a white woman helping us with the Chinese market.  Who are we going to get, Maggie Smith?
Exec 1: Too old.  I'm thinking Tilda Swinton.
Exec 2: Maggie Smith is too old to play The Ancient One?
Exec 3: Are you on drugs?
Exec 1: Of course not.
Exec 3: You need to be on drugs.

downix

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27363 on: April 20, 2017, 03:43:43 AM »
The problem with this theory is that they could have killed two birds with one stone and cast a Chinese guy in the role.  I mean, if you're trying to appease the Chinese government, why wouldn't you just cast a Chinese person in one of the central roles?

I wish I could have been in the room when this discussion went down:

Exec 1: we need to rewrite the role of the Ancient One
Exec 2: Why?
Exec 1: He's Tibetan.  The Chinese government will never let us distribute the movie in China if one of the heroes is Tibetan.
Exec 3: Why not just rewrite him as Chinese.  Its not like American movie goers will notice the difference anyway.
Exec 1: I was thinking about making the Ancient One a Caucasian woman.
Exec 2: Come again?
Exec 3: Yeah, how does this help us with the Chinese market again?
Exec 1: We can make her a Celtic wizard, or druid, or whatever they are.
Exec 2: So how are we going to rewrite this movie so it takes place in Britain?
Exec 1: We're not going to relocate the setting; its going to be set in Nepal.
Exec 2: So why not make the Ancient One Nepalese? 
Exec 3: I'm still scratching my head over casting a white woman helping us with the Chinese market.  Who are we going to get, Maggie Smith?
Exec 1: Too old.  I'm thinking Tilda Swinton.
Exec 2: Maggie Smith is too old to play The Ancient One?
Exec 3: Are you on drugs?
Exec 1: Of course not.
Exec 3: You need to be on drugs.
This is Hollywood.

Clearly drugs.

Stitchified

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27364 on: April 20, 2017, 05:04:36 AM »
PLEASE NOTE THAT THE FOLLOWING IS JUST MY OPINION ON THE MATTER, IT IS NOT FACTUAL NOR SHOULD IT BE TAKEN AS SUCH.
(The above message is in case anyone thinks I have insider information or something, which I do not have, at all.)

I personally feel that while yeah, the shutdown involving CoH/CoV occurred pretty close to when all the comic book movies started becoming really popular with the current world, I don't think NCsoft realized just how popular Superheroes (and some Super-Villains) would become thus putting them in a dilemma that consisted of 3 choices:

Choice #1: NCsoft chooses to bring CoH/CoV back to capitalize on the huge popularity of Superheroes, but at great risk of causing immense outrage among the vast majority of CoH/CoV fans which would in turn impact a good portion of the profit to be had.

Choice #2: NCsoft chooses to license/sell the CoH/CoV IP to an interested group/party, who would more than likely end up capitalizing on the huge popularity of Superheroes by bringing CoH/CoV back for people to play again, which would have made NCsoft look really bad for shutting CoH/CoV down in the first
place which could also in turn impact some of the profit to be had for both the interested group/party & NCsoft.

Choice #3: NCsoft chooses to simply hold onto the CoH/CoV IP for unknown reasons, despite the profit that could be had from Choice #1 & #2, leading to fans to speculate why NCsoft has yet to license/sell the CoH/CoV IP to any interested group or person.
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Prism Almidu

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27365 on: April 20, 2017, 05:18:08 AM »
I mean, those sound fairly logical, and so far they seem to have chosen door number 3, but at the same time, the general feeling I'm getting is that, yes, option 1 would lead to some people going, "Why did you shut it down in the first place?!", it would still lead to overall better opinion than the knowledge of NCSoft having the ability to restore CoX, but refusing to do so. My $0.02 on the matter.

cmgangrel

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27366 on: April 20, 2017, 06:58:45 AM »
PLEASE NOTE THAT THE FOLLOWING IS JUST MY OPINION ON THE MATTER, IT IS NOT FACTUAL NOR SHOULD IT BE TAKEN AS SUCH.
(The above message is in case anyone thinks I have insider information or something, which I do not have, at all.)

I personally feel that while yeah, the shutdown involving CoH/CoV occurred pretty close to when all the comic book movies started becoming really popular with the current world, I don't think NCsoft realized just how popular Superheroes (and some Super-Villains) would become thus putting them in a dilemma that consisted of 3 choices:

I would say that during the life span of CoX, there were *enough* films based on comics/graphic novels/superheroes that it would have been impossible to say that they *were not* aware of how popular the genre was. So remember: CoX did as well as it did *whilst* these films were being released.

Marvel Live Action:
2004   The Punisher, Spider-Man 2, Blade: Trinity
2005   Elektra, Fantastic Four   
2006   X-Men: The Last Stand   
2007   Ghost Rider, Spider-Man 3, Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer   
2008   Iron Man, The Incredible Hulk, Punisher: War Zone
2009   X-Men Origins: Wolverine   
2010   Iron Man 2
2011   Thor, X-Men: First Class, Captain America: The First Avenger
2012   Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance, The Avengers, The Amazing Spider-Man

Marvel Imprints:
2010   Kick-Ass
2013   Men In Black 3

Animated:
2006   Ultimate Avengers, Ultimate Avengers 2
2007   The Invincible Iron Man, Doctor Strange: The Sorcerer Supreme
2008   Next Avengers: Heroes of Tomorrow
2009   Hulk Verus
2010   Planet Hulk
2011   Thor: Tales of Asgard

So just 30 different projects there alone

(27 different films (live action/Animated)  since then, including films due for release this year)

DC Live Action:
2004   Catwoman
2005   Constantine, Batman Begins
2006   V for Vendetta, Superman Returns (Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut was also released, but this is a re-release so doesn't get counted)
2008   The Dark Knight
2009   Watchmen
2010   The Losers, Jonah Hex
2011   Green Lantern,
2012   The Dark Knight Rises

DC Imprints:
2005   A History of Violence
2010   RED

Animated Films:
2006   Superman: Braniac Attacks
2007   Superman: Doomsday
2008   Justice League: The New Frontier, Batman: Gotham Knight
2009   Wonder Woman, Green Lantern: First Flight, Superman/Batman: Public Enemies
2010   Justice League: Crisis on Two Earths, Batman: Under The Red Hood, Superman/Batman: Apocalypse
2011   All-Star Superman, Green Lantern: Emerald Knights, Batman: Year One
2012   Justice League: Doom, Superman Vs The Elite, The Dark Knight Returns - Part 1

29 Films listed there.
(28 different films (live action/Animated)  since then, including films due for release this year)


Non Marvel/DC films from Comic Books

2004   Hellboy, Alien Vs Predator
2005   Son of the Mask, Sin City, The Crow: Wicked Prayer, The Adventures of Sharkboy and Lavagirl in 3-D, Sky High,
2006   Hellboy: Sword of Storms, Lightspeed, My Super Ex-Girlfriend, Special, Zoom
2007   Hellboy: Blood and Iron, Underdog, 300, Aliens Vs Predator: Requiem
2008   Hellboy II: The Golden Army, Jumper, Superhero Movie, Hancock, The Spirit, Wanted
2009   Push, Defendor
2010   Super,
2011   The Green Hornet, Vs
2012   Chronicle, Dredd,

And that isn't even taking into consideration TV Series/Cartoons either....

Stitchified

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27367 on: April 20, 2017, 07:59:37 AM »
I would say that during the life span of CoX, there were *enough* films based on comics/graphic novels/superheroes that it would have been impossible to say that they *were not* aware of how popular the genre was.
Actually, NCsoft could have easily been unaware of the popularity of the genre if it was only really popular here in the West at the time.

Lemme provide you with a list (taken from a late 2013 Article on CNBC's website) that'll maybe showcase my point in a way that's better than what I already tried to explain/say (and could've definitely failed at that, as I'm not exactly good at translating my thoughts into words for various reasons, none of which I particularly feel like discussing at this point and time.)
CHINA'S BOX OFFICE GOLD
Release Date   Movie   Revenue   Percent of Global Box Office
   10/17/13   The Wolverine   $39.7M   9.6%*
   6/20/13   Man of Steel   $63.4M   9.6%
   5/1/13   Iron Man 3   $121.2M   10%
   8/27/12   Dark Knight Rises   $52.8M   4.9%
   8/27/12   Amazing Spider-Man   $48.8M   6.5%
   5/5/12   Avengers   $84.1M               5.5%
   9/9/11   Captain America   $14.6M   3.8%
   5/8/11   Thor               $14.9M   3.2%
http://www.cnbc.com/2013/11/08/pow-superhero-films-knock-em-dead-in-china.html

Edit: I figured I should include where I found the above list and what not in case anyone is curious/doesn't believe me
« Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 08:04:58 AM by Stitchified »
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Stitchified

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27368 on: April 20, 2017, 08:07:18 AM »
If China's box office wasn't doing so well with Superhero Movies before 2013, I bet many other Asian countries were having similar occurrences (South Korea included), and we all know that NCsoft never really paid attention to the Western World in the same way that they paid attention to the Eastern World which is entirely understandable given where NCsoft is based out of
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adarict

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27369 on: April 20, 2017, 10:42:07 PM »
Honestly, they were just faceless henchmen.  Canon fodder for superheroes and villains - it's why most enemies didn't have names they were just class types.  They weren't mean to have an identity.  As for the name and training, it was just for lore.  Artemis was the Goddess of the Hunt. CoH loved its greek references and because they used bows, traps, and blades they related it to her.  As for the Tibet reference, Ninja training + spiritual martial arts = Tibet because it's easy to reference and explain their martial arts background.  It's cliche but highly recognized as a place where one might go to train for mystical ninja powers and is also a very Comic Book thing to do.

This.  The Knives of Artemis always came across to me as "Hey, I have a cool name for a group!  Knives of Artemis!"  then they just backfilled the story to include common tropes from comic books.  I would be shocked that there was any real thought put into it.  Also, they didn't necessarily HAVE to be Caucasian.  Remember, detail wasn't exactly super high back then.  I mean, in the character creator, you could see the faces well, but in the actual game?  Not so much.  I would guess they were more interested in getting a cool looking costume/uniform for the group, than they were about the faces. 

Maybe there really was a lot of thought put into it.  It all started with one young Greek-American who crashed in Tibet and rescued by Tibetan mastiffs that were wandering the mountain, as they are wont to do.  They became his surrogate family, until one fateful day, when a monk from a hidden temple stumbled upon the child!  "Wot's all this then??" the monk would exclaim (that is how Tibetan monks talk, right?).  He rescues the young Greek-American-Tibetan-Mastiff child and trains them to be a mighty warrior.  The child has an unhealthy obsession with Greek mythology and 80's hair metal band names, and thus, were the Knives of Artemis born!

Zerohour

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27370 on: April 21, 2017, 12:42:27 AM »
i looked barely older than a high school graduate until my late thirties, so that's not exactly a big sticking point for me, but at this moment i still have more confidence in CoT and VO. This is in part because the initial Ship of Heroes announcement looked like it was using quickly photoshopped CoH assets, which seemed to suggest they'd just gotten started and threw together whatever.
That was going to be my next point.  The media available looked remarkably close to City of Heroes stuff.  I believe there were even war walls in some of the screens.  They didn't even make much of an effort with the name, all they did was change ONE word.  It reminds me too much of the companies in Asia that get a hold of Blizzard assets and just do a color palette swap and call their new game "Underwatch"

downix

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27371 on: April 21, 2017, 01:47:59 AM »
That was going to be my next point.  The media available looked remarkably close to City of Heroes stuff.  I believe there were even war walls in some of the screens.  They didn't even make much of an effort with the name, all they did was change ONE word.  It reminds me too much of the companies in Asia that get a hold of Blizzard assets and just do a color palette swap and call their new game "Underwatch"
Let's be fair, City of Titans only changed one word in our name.

Brigadine

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27372 on: April 21, 2017, 05:45:39 AM »
Let's be fair, City of Titans only changed one word in our name.
And added two letters ;)

Tubbius

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27373 on: April 21, 2017, 04:22:02 PM »
And added two letters ;)

Tubbius is hungry. He wants someone to found a restaurant named City of Gyros.

LaughingAlex

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27374 on: April 21, 2017, 05:10:50 PM »
Tubbius is hungry. He wants someone to found a restaurant named City of Gyros.

Chicken taco's sound good......or maybe carne asada fries......*looks at nearby mexican restaurant, licks chops*.
Currently; Not doing any streaming, found myself with less time available recently.  Still playing starbound periodically, though I am thinking of trying other games.  Don't tell me to play mmohtg's though please :).  Getting back into participating in VO and the successors again to.

Power Gamer

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27375 on: April 21, 2017, 05:17:45 PM »
It takes a village to raise a child. And it takes a villain to explain the value of lunch money.

-Random CoHer: "Why does the sky turn green during Rikti invasions?"
-Me:"Rikti Monkey farts"
-Random CoHer: "I'm going to you for all my questions from now on!"

Arcana

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27376 on: April 21, 2017, 10:29:32 PM »
I personally feel that while yeah, the shutdown involving CoH/CoV occurred pretty close to when all the comic book movies started becoming really popular with the current world, I don't think NCsoft realized just how popular Superheroes (and some Super-Villains) would become

It is worth pointing out that this moment that no one has really made a good case for why this matters.  We all know how popular superheroes are in film today.  And yet gaming still hasn't pounced all over it.  There's about as much superhero based games today as there were on the day of CoH shutdown.  And when it comes to MMOs Champions Online and DCUO are not raging successes.  Marvel doesn't even *have* an entry into the conventional MMO arena, nor does it look like they are in a big hurry to launch one.

In fact, there's a very good reason to consider the possibility that not only is the current success of the superhero genre not an indicator of how well superhero based games would be, but actually a *counter-indicator*.  The very success of the genre of superhero movies is primarily due to the ability for them to draw in non-genre followers.  Basically, people who otherwise don't care about superheroes in other media.  More people watched the second Ghost Rider than read any comic book of any kind about any topic.  That's how huge that market is.  The billions of dollars that superhero movies and television are making is coming from people who may not have any other connection to superheroes, and by extension may have absolutely no interest in playing a superhero-themed game.

If the vast majority of people watching Avengers movies would never read an Avengers comic book or play an Avengers themed video game, it is actually harder to launch those products, because that market is much more difficult to target.  To the extent people try, it is often with products other than much deeper things like conventional MMOs, and more like superficially themed casual mobile games.

Arcana

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27377 on: April 21, 2017, 10:34:14 PM »
Tubbius is hungry. He wants someone to found a restaurant named City of Gyros.



Gyropolis.  Basically, City of Gyros.

pinballdave

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27378 on: April 22, 2017, 12:31:30 AM »
I wished that NCSoft had marketed a bit more on the hero a bit less on the spandex because there were so many character outfits: cowboy, magician, genie, boxer, martial artist, swordsmen of all flavors, witches, demons just to name a basketful. With marketing, the game would have broader appeal. Dead horse, but I kicked it again.

Taceus Jiwede

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #27379 on: April 22, 2017, 12:34:18 AM »
That was going to be my next point.  The media available looked remarkably close to City of Heroes stuff.  I believe there were even war walls in some of the screens.  They didn't even make much of an effort with the name, all they did was change ONE word.  It reminds me too much of the companies in Asia that get a hold of Blizzard assets and just do a color palette swap and call their new game "Underwatch"

I hope for success for all them even the one I won't be playing.  It's not really a contest which is better or the best, hopefully they are all good.


Maybe there really was a lot of thought put into it.  It all started with one young Greek-American who crashed in Tibet and rescued by Tibetan mastiffs that were wandering the mountain, as they are wont to do.  They became his surrogate family, until one fateful day, when a monk from a hidden temple stumbled upon the child!  "Wot's all this then??" the monk would exclaim (that is how Tibetan monks talk, right?).  He rescues the young Greek-American-Tibetan-Mastiff child and trains them to be a mighty warrior.  The child has an unhealthy obsession with Greek mythology and 80's hair metal band names, and thus, were the Knives of Artemis born!


I think is a safe bet to assume this is the way it happened.