New efforts!

[Ultimate15]

That would be rumor mongering. He has no concrete information about what went on behind closed doors, so anything he had to say about it would be idle speculation. (same as everything else negotiation related in this thread) People would either take what he said as gospel, or they would be upset that he didn't have concrete accurate information about what went on behind those closed doors.

If you think that constitutes as 'rumor mongering', then we have two different definitions of that. Nate giving his opinion of what he thinks transpired during those negotiations isn't spreading rumors - it's just that: him giving his opinion. And it just so happens to be the opinion of someone whom knew who the involved parties were, and was (to a minimal degree, at least) in direct communication with them at some point in time. That is something that (to our knowledge) no one else was doing. That's a fairly unique position to be in. Just saying. 

And I don't think the community's reaction to it would be so extreme, truthfully. People seem to be pretty fine/neutral with the fact that we haven't received any type of formal update in years - I feel like I'm the only one holding a proverbial 'pitchfork' over this. Which, granted, makes me take pause... but, as you stated down below, my opinion is the one that matters most for me (in MOST cases - but not all). And I do think what I'm suggesting is rational. 

Color me naive, but I think people would actually be appreciative for sake of closure.

I'm fairly sure that his FB post, "It was a long shot" (or something like that) would give you an idea of his thoughts on the negotiations.

I don't want to say "I'm not settling for that", because that makes it sound as if I have some type of leverage here to make someone come forward and communicate with us - and I know I don't. All I have is my making noise on a public forum lol. But... yeah, I'm not settling for that. This was a big deal. I'm not going to shrug my shoulders and figure he's 'over it' from a Facebook comment. You can if you'd like, but I'm going to keep my standards where they are.

Everyone has their own opinion. But, Mine's the one that counts (for me).

I partially agree with this, but not fully in every type of scenario. I've never been in a situation where I needed to connect potential IP buyers with an executive (or whomever it was) for a foreign gaming company in an effort to buy back a cancelled MMORPG. That alone is reason enough to make me want to know what he thinks.

If you mean that he was the one who introduced the potential buyers to NCSoft so they could start negotiations, then yes, he did start that. If, however, you mean the leaked information that there were super hush-hush negotiations going on to purchase the IP for CoH that we should never have known about until after the negotiations were complete, then no, he was not the one who started all of this.

The moron person who leaked the information is literally the reason we are having this conversation right now, on this thread.

First off: you can call him/her/they a 'moron', if you'd like. I don't disagree with that.

Secondly, I don't recall that being the chain of events - and I might be wrong about this, I admit. But I recall that they created this thread announcing that negotiations were happening, but they withheld the 'Nate Downes with MWM' portion. That part somehow got out and said moron threatened to leak it preemptively, so they were forced to announce it sooner than anticipated via the "And the mask comes off" thread. Also, if they weren't planning to announce it at all, then why would Nate say this in his first statement...

So, why come forward now?

Back in March, we were advised to wait until after August as a show of good faith. It is now September, so here we are.

Since we could not give full details to anyone without jeopardizing the whole thing before now, a lot of misinformation, rumors, and flat out wrong ideas got out there. To correct them could have broken the request, and therefore the trust, built up. So we had to let them stir, and do minor nudges to fix when we could get away with it.

[Ultimate15]

Just keep reading his posts, it'll tell you everything you wanted to know without anybody else having to do the work for you.

If you can't be bothered doing that, nor can I.

I did.

And I didn't see anything that spoke to what I am proposing. But maybe you're seeing something I'm not?

[LateNights]

I did.

And I didn't see anything that spoke to what I am proposing. But maybe you're seeing something I'm not?

Oh good, so you can see that things may not have gone as the negotiation team had planned - what with NC seemingly proposing other avenues than the actual sale of the game...

That aside - I don't understand why your proposition is more relevant than whats "allegedly" happened?

Do you perhaps know more than you're letting on?

[Ultimate15]

Oh good, so you can see that things may not have gone as the negotiation team had planned - what with NC seemingly proposing other avenues than the actual sale of the game...

That aside - I don't understand why your proposition is more relevant than whats "allegedly" happened?

Do you perhaps know more than you're letting on?

Where did you read this? Did Nate explicitly state somewhere on the Titan forums that NCSoft tried to propose other avenues to the potential buyers than the actual sale of the game? B/c if that were the case, then he wouldn't have just put people in contact with each other and exited stage left - which is what I thought had happened?

Perhaps I didn't see that in my search for his posts. Things can get lost in translation sometimes, so maybe I saw the post but didn't think that's what he meant (aka you're thinking he made a Facebook comment saying 'game over', when another forum user pointed out that that's not what he said - it was something to the effect of 'Oh well it was a longshot anyways'). 

It's more relevant because it would be coming directly from Nate by means of a formal statement, as opposed to bits and pieces from different posts he's made on various social media outlets that can (clearly) be misconstrued or misinterpreted. It's an action I think he should take, is what I'm saying.

...And no, I don't know more than I'm letting on (strange question). If anything, I feel like I don't know enough. 

[LateNights]

Where did you read this? Did Nate explicitly state somewhere on the Titan forums...

...And no, I don't know more than I'm letting on (strange question). If anything, I feel like I don't know enough.

Are you serious?

Lol - nothing says "I demand you write more", than "I can't be bothered reading what you've already written"...

Read his posts - if you claim to have high standards the least you can do is spend some time reading - however - I refuse to hold your hand because you simply can't be bothered.

[Vee]

Most entertaining thread ever is RIP and we're back on the umpteenth iteration of this convo? Color me sad faced.

[LateNights]

Most entertaining thread ever is RIP and we're back on the umpteenth iteration of this convo? Color me sad faced.

You mean the one with my totally awesome picture I found?

[Tahquitz]

That thread was locked for a reason.  Please don't pick it up here.

[Ultimate15]

Are you serious?

Lol - nothing says "I demand you write more", than "I can't be bothered reading what you've already written"...

Read his posts - if you claim to have high standards the least you can do is spend some time reading - however - I refuse to hold your hand because you simply can't be bothered.

...Not entirely sure how to respond to that! It's like you're looking for reasons to be aggressive over this.

First off - you are the one claiming he said this. Not me.  I went back and looked at all of his posts since he first came forward and identified himself as being involved with these negotiations (I'm not going to hold him accountable for anything he said pre-negotiations), and I did not find anything involving him stating that NCSoft tried to get the buyers to explore other 'avenues' instead of selling them the IP. Obviously things didn't go as the negotiation team had planned, seeing as how the negotiations have so evidently failed...?

But I'm not claiming to definitively know that he absolutely never said that. Like I said, maybe I didn't see what you are referring to, and that's why I was opening it up for you to show me the evidence and prove me wrong. But if you're insistent on trying to get me to find the specific comment myself, then no - I'm not going to comb through his 41 pages of notes to string together what I think he thinks is going on. Don't want to hold my hand? Cool, don't. Not asking you to.

Secondly, I never said my standards were high. The point I'm trying to make is that requesting he come forward with a statement to formally close this chapter is NOT having high standards - that it is reasonable, and makes sense given the circumstances of the situation.

And lastly - and I'm quoting this word-for-word - what I said to you was: Normally, I can't be bothered - and I shouldn't have to be. My apologies if this in any way triggered you, but I stand by it (even though I still went back and looked at his posts, as you had suggested). IronWolf and Nate both would update the first page(s) of their threads with updates so people would know to check there for any important info and such. That would be a great place to post something in the vein of "Hi - here's where I think things currently stand. Here's why I think it happened. On to the next efforts! Kbye." 

And for the record... I love you all (except LateNights - he's a poopy head), and I love Paragon Chat.

[Vee]

Superman Hah Face, Great! Some Haiku Fun Good! Sorry, Have Felt Grumpy.

[LateNights]

...Not entirely sure how to respond to that! It's like you're looking for reasons to be aggressive over this.

And for the record... I love you all (except LateNights - he's a poopy head), and I love Paragon Chat.

Mate, a lot of us have been reading this thread multiple times a day for the last few years - please understand how it can be hard to hear someone new turn up demanding things that maybe aren't as realistic as you'd hope.

We'd all like good news - we've had none - at least on any official front...

Noone on the team owes us anything - they did what they could - if they don't want to go public, so be it.

[Tahquitz]

Superman Hah Face, Great! Some Haiku Fun Good! Sorry, Have Felt Grumpy.

message compelling
still skirting prior request
we still like you all

[Ultimate15]

Mate, a lot of us have been reading this thread multiple times a day for the last few years - please understand how it can be hard to hear someone new turn up demanding things that maybe aren't as realistic as you'd hope.

We'd all like good news - we've had none - at least on any official front...

Noone on the team owes us anything - they did what they could - if they don't want to go public, so be it.

I'm not new. I've been on the forums since 2012. I was a 7 year veteran of COH. I check/read these forums every day. I'm on PC every day, and I want this game back just as much as anyone.

Never once did I 'demand' this. This has always been me giving my opinion on what I feel should happen (I've been pretty good with starting my sentences with 'I think...', or 'I feel...' or 'I think they should...' etc etc). I'm entitled to my opinion, just as you are entitled to yours. It seemed like you were getting confrontational, which isn't necessary.

You don't think it's owed. I do. You don't think it's realistic. I do. It's okay. We can agree to disagree on this.

[LateNights]

You don't think it's owed. I do. You don't think it's realistic. I do. It's okay. We can agree to disagree on this.

As far as we know they're under an NDA.

[Ultimate15]

As far as we know they're under an NDA.

Apparently, Nate is not under an NDA.

[Thunder Glove]

... and Nate doesn't know anything.   He's said that.  The "Mask comes off" thread is not his most recent word on the matter.  His most recent word on the matter is from last March on Facebook (when Master x Master was announced), when he said "That was always a long shot. I had not gotten an update from that group in over a year."

So he is not in contact with them, he does not have news to share, and I don't know why him coming here and saying, yet again, "I haven't heard anything since 2016" would somehow be new news to you.

[Surelle]

... and Nate doesn't know anything.   He's said that.  The "Mask comes off" thread is not his most recent word on the matter.  His most recent word on the matter is from last March on Facebook (when Master x Master was announced), when he said "That was always a long shot. I had not gotten an update from that group in over a year."

So he is not in contact with them, he does not have news to share, and I don't know why him coming here and saying, yet again, "I haven't heard anything since 2016" would somehow be new news to you.

Exactly this.

And I have to admit, I'm shocked to think anyone is still holding out hope for an official CoX rez.  It's been 6 years.  Even the "wake me if there's ever news" thread is 3 years old without so much as a peep out of it.

There's Paragon Chat, there's SEGS (which I think just patched in actual mobs for Issue 1) and there are several spiritual successors.  That's all she wrote, folks!  That's all that's really happening on the CoX front.  However, it's all a lot better than nothing, and I'm grateful to all those making all of that happen!

[Ultimate15]

... and Nate doesn't know anything.   He's said that.  The "Mask comes off" thread is not his most recent word on the matter.  His most recent word on the matter is from last March on Facebook (when Master x Master was announced), when he said "That was always a long shot. I had not gotten an update from that group in over a year."

So he is not in contact with them, he does not have news to share, and I don't know why him coming here and saying, yet again, "I haven't heard anything since 2016" would somehow be new news to you.

So, a few things here:

I'm starting to think what I'm proposing is somehow getting lost in translation. Just to reiterate: I am not saying that Nate needs to come forward with new information on the negotiations. I am aware he was/is not part of the negotiations. I know he has no new updates on that front.

...And that is NOT what I am requesting/suggesting/proposing he do - I am well aware that these negotiations are dead in the water. I just think it would be a good idea for him to make, like, a 'closing statement' of some kind (that sounds awkward, but that's the only way I can think to word it right now) that relays his OPINIONS on a.) whether or not he thinks the negotiations are still on-going (which, I am gathering he very much doesn't - but I do think he should formally relay that to people by means of a statement and not a Facebook comment), b.) why he thinks they may have fell through (again, I'd be genuinely curious to know what he thinks about this), and c.) what he thinks about any future efforts to approach NCSoft regarding the purchase of the COH IP (good idea, BAAAD idea, not worth it, general advice, etc.). Again, I know he doesn't have concrete information to 'share' from the negotiators - that has nothing to do with what I have been talking about.

I think the reason why the principal of this matters so much to me is because of how much of a big deal it was. I think I said this before, and I know I'm preaching to the choir here... but this was NOT, like, a small little 'project' that someone was quietly working on all by themselves. For whatever reason(s), these negotiations were made public and it caught on like wild fire. It was huge. Therefore, I think the right thing for Nate to do would be to step forward and put closure to this by means of a statement - and maybe he can post it to the first page of the 'And the mask comes off' thread? I don't know. I think the community deserves a little more than just a Facebook comment to signify that he believes this to be finished. I care what he thinks. If you don't need him to make a statement, that's okay! Again, we can agree to disagree.

Also, for sake of reiteration: I'm not 'demanding' he do this. I obviously don't have the power nor couldn't/wouldn't try and force someone's hand at anything. I was super grateful for what he tried to do, and I wish CoT all the success in the world. This is just my opinion on what I think would be the right thing to do by the community.

Lastly, thank you Thunder Glove for relaying his comment in full from March of last year on Facebook - I didn't know that was the full comment he had made. Also, I was unaware that he had heard from the negotiators as recently as February of 2016. From what people had been saying/speculating, it seemed like Nate had very minimal contact (if he had contact at all, for that matter) with the negotiators since summer/fall of 2014. February of 2016 was much more recent than I had known.

See? I'm learning new things!

[Ultimate15]

And I have to admit, I'm shocked to think anyone is still holding out hope for an official CoX rez.  It's been 6 years.  Even the "wake me if there's ever news" thread is multiple years old without so much as a peep out of it.

There's Paragon Chat, there's SEGS (which I think just patched in actual mobs for Issue 1) and there are several spiritual successors.  That's all she wrote, folks!  That's all that's really happening on the CoX front.  However, it's all a lot better than nothing, and I'm grateful to all those making all of that happen!

I mean, I'll always hold out hope. But I don't think it will come by means of these negotiations, no - they're very much done at this point.

Also, I agree that Paragon Chat is the s#$% and everyone should be on it. I play it every day and I'm very much appreciative for all that CW has done to keep that up and running. I haven't checked out SEGS yet, but I've been keeping close eye on everything and I hope they continue to grow and code and grow and code. *thumbs up*

[Arcana]

As far as we know they're under an NDA.

Who and if any one is covered by NDA is speculation, because no one directly involved with anything was or is talking.  The subject of NDAs came up when people were asking "why aren't we being told anything?"  NDAs were one possibility discussed.  However, to the best of my recollection that was never confirmed, however obvious it might be.

At this point, I'm reasonably sure that NDAs aren't the reason people aren't talking so much as it is no one wants to talk.  There's lots of things I'm not currently willing to discuss openly even years later, and while I have various reasons for doing so, no one is going to get me to discuss what those reasons are, much less cause me to break those reasons.  They simply are.

I will say that the easiest way to deflect questions is to be completely silent about a subject.  Trying to navigate the fine line between what you want to discuss and what you don't want to discuss is hard: being completely silent, absolutely perfectly silent without exception, is relatively easy.  I know I benefit greatly from the fact that all the things I don't particularly care to discuss are things no one knows enough to ask questions about, that doesn't also know not to ask the question publicly.