Author Topic: After Tanker Information  (Read 3097 times)

Solitaire

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After Tanker Information
« on: April 16, 2014, 06:38:48 AM »
Does anyone have a link (if still exsists) for the guides that were posted by "Call Me Awesome" for the following;

  • Invulnerability Tanker, the first 20 levels (Call_Me_Awesome)
  • Invulnerability tankers and the Defense soft cap (Call_Me_Awesome)

Have looked on the archived origianl forums https://web.archive.org/web/20120904233028/http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=112232 but doesn't come back with anything :(
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Felderburg

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Re: After Tanker Information
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2014, 10:02:35 PM »
For some reason, clicking the links to the guides in the archive you posted goes to the actual boards.cityofhereoes.com website - most of the links I see on Internet Archive go to the archive of that site. Pasting the links into the archive URL gets:

https://web.archive.org/web/20120904095330/http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=126983
https://web.archive.org/web/20120911095148/http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=133483

They work fine for me.

Edit: For some reason, the link you gave doesn't have the archive.org header / toolbar thing, which may be why it doesn't redirect links to an archived version.
Edit: Or maybe it's because they were archived in a different way, since it was an emergency website archive.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2014, 10:11:37 PM by Felderburg »
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Solitaire

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Re: After Tanker Information
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2014, 06:15:50 AM »
For some reason, clicking the links to the guides in the archive you posted goes to the actual boards.cityofhereoes.com website - most of the links I see on Internet Archive go to the archive of that site. Pasting the links into the archive URL gets:

https://web.archive.org/web/20120904095330/http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=126983
https://web.archive.org/web/20120911095148/http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=133483

They work fine for me.

Edit: For some reason, the link you gave doesn't have the archive.org header / toolbar thing, which may be why it doesn't redirect links to an archived version.
Edit: Or maybe it's because they were archived in a different way, since it was an emergency website archive.

Thanks for the links, have tried clicking on the links, copying links, open link location but always comes up page not found? have noticed though when the page not found notice comes up there is no archive.org present in the address?

Did you just click on the link on the forum page and get directed straight to the page or did you have to mess with the address?
“When you have lost hope, you have lost everything. And when you think all is lost, when all is dire and bleak, there is always hope.”

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Felderburg

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Re: After Tanker Information
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2014, 02:45:57 PM »
I went to the page you linked (https://web.archive.org/web/20120904233028/http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=112232).

Clicked on the guides, but they went straight to the boards.cityofheroes.... address (http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=133483)

I copied that, and replaced the guide url with it, from your initial link (the part in bold). That came out with the two links I provided, which work fine for me.

Below is the content, unformatted and not prettily colored.

Spoiler for Invulnerability tankers and the Defense soft cap:
Invulnerability tankers and the Defense soft cap
Invulnerability and the defense soft cap.

Issue 13 made some significant changes to the Invulnerability set, but even more importantly it made changes to the way typed defense worked with IO set bonuses. Now all typed defensive bonuses now cover two damage types, Smash/Lethal, Fire/Cold and Energy/Negative as well as providing half that amount in positional defenses of Melee, Range & AOE.

First, let’s look at what changed in Invulnerability for issue 13:

Resist Physical Damage went from 7.5% S/L resistance to 10% S/L resistance AND got a 25% resistance to defense debuffs.
Resist Energies went from 7.5% E/N resistance to 10% E/N resistance AND got 25% resistance to endurance drains
Resist Elements went from 7.5% F/C resistance to 10% F/C resistance AND got 20% slow resistance
Unyielding finally lost the 5% defense debuff
Invincibility lost a little defense per mob to compensate
Tough Hide gained 25% resistance to defense debuffs

The bottom line is that we’re significantly better off defensively than we used to be with 1-6 mobs in range of Invincibility and very slightly worse off with 10 mobs in range. Considering the fact that it’s nearly impossible to get more than 6-8 mobs in your aura unless you’re fighting Rikti Monkeys, that’s a big win for us. The debuff resistance in RPD and TH amounts to 50% and makes it much harder for mobs to knock down your defenses… previously, the Cimeroans in the ITF could completely eliminate your defense; now they can’t if you have RPD & TH.

Now let’s look at the changes to IO set defensive bonuses, probably the single biggest change. What does it mean to Invulnerability tankers? Well, it used to be very difficult to build defensive bonuses since IO sets only covered one type of damage. Prior to issue 13, an IO set might provide, for example, 2% smashing defense. Now that same set would provide 2% smashing AND lethal defense as well as 1% Melee defense. This is a very good thing for us since we can cover our defensive needs with only half the number of bonuses we used to need.

A small digression here about just how defense works in this game…

Defense works by making an attack miss you; if it doesn’t hit then you don’t take any damage. The mobs have a base 50% chance to hit you with their attacks; your defense directly reduces that chance. If you have 25% defense then the mobs have a 25% chance to hit you… 35% defense means they have a 15% chance to hit and so on to the “soft cap” of 45% reducing the mob’s chance to hit you to 5%. We call it the soft cap because while you can have a higher amount of defense you can’t reduce the mob’s chance to hit you to below 5%.

Now when a mob attacks you the game takes the highest defense amount you have to any part of that attack and uses that for your total defense… for example let’s take a fictional ranged power that does 100 points of energy damage and 100 points of smashing damage. You have 45% smash/lethal defense, 40% energy/negative defense and 20% ranged defense… which is roughly what this guide will aim for. Since the attack is ranged you have 20% defense to it… but it’s also energy so you have 40% defense to it… but it’s ALSO smashing and you have 45% defense to that. The game takes your highest defense, smashing, and therefore the attack has a 5% chance to hit you.

While not all attacks will have a Smash/Lethal portion, the vast majority do, so this is your most important defensive number; it’s the one we want to get to 45% the most.

Arcanaville explains things much better than I can so check out her Guide to Defense for a more detailed explanation.

OK, enough of the lecture! I just wanna know how to build my tanker!

Here’s your shopping list for Wentworth’s for your soft capped Invuln tanker:

    5 sets of Reactive Armor – you need 4 pieces in the set for the bonuses we want, which are 1.5% defense to E/N and 1.5% defense to S/L. I suggest the Resist, Resist/Endurance, Resist/Recharge and Resist/Endurance/Recharge

    3 sets of Smashing Haymaker – all 4 pieces of the set. (1.13% hit points and 1.88% defense to S/L) (Slot 4 sets if you use Mocking Beratement)

    Full set of Perfect Zinger (10% regen, 5% recharge, 2.5% damage and 3.13% defense S/L) _OR_ full set of Mocking Beratement (1.8% endurance, 2.5% defense S/L, 3.13% F/C and 7.5% recharge)

    2 of the Zephyr universal travel set, the speed & speed/end IO’s… skip the knockback protection. (3.13% defense ranged, 1.56% defense E/N)

    Steadfast Protection 3% defense/resist unique IO – this is the only expensive item.


With the exception of the Steadfast unique, the rest shouldn’t cost more than 10 million and probably quite a bit less.

    August, 2009 update: Prices have increased on several of my recommended sets since this was written; but with some patience you should still be able to acquire everything for well under $30 million.


Why not use the Kinetic Combat set for the attacks?
Well, the reason for this is a simple one. At the time I’m writing this guide, there are two pieces of the Kinetic Combat set that are completely unavailable on the market. If that ever changes, then yes, the Kinetic Combat set is better than the Smashing Haymaker. But for now, I’m recommending what’s available.

    August, 2009 update: These have started to become available on the market again, albeit at somewhat of a premium price. If you can get the Kinetic Combat sets they'll be twice as effective as the Smashing Haymaker thus requiring fewer set bonuses.


Why not use Aegis instead of some of the Reactive Armor?
The reasoning here is simple. S/L defense will protect from most elemental attacks and pure elemental damage without a S/L component is extremely rare in the game. That being the case, I’d rather concentrate on the more common damage types. Additionally, the Reactive Armor set is considerably cheaper. If you’re taking Resist Elements in your build, then by all means slot Aegis there, as that makes 6 resist powers… you can only get the bonus from Reactive Armor 5 times.

Now that we have the IO’s we need, we need to put them somewhere. So, here are the powers you’ll need for this build:

    Temporary Invulnerability – 4 Reactive Armor and the Steadfast Unique
    Dull Pain – 3 recharge/3 heal or 5 of the Doctored Wounds set

    Unyielding – 4 Reactive Armor

    Taunt – full Perfect Zinger or full Mocking Beratement

    Combat Jumping – 1 common defense or 2 Zephyr IO’s

    Super Jump – 2 Zephyr IO’s

    Invincibility – 3 common defense, 1 endred or, at level 47+ 3 Cytoskeleton Hamidon Origin enhancements. One common taunt if you have the slots.

    Tough Hide – 3 common defense and it’s done

    Resist Physical Damage – 4 Reactive Armor

    Resist Energies – 4 Reactive Armor

    Boxing _OR_ Kick

    Tough – 4 Reactive Armor

    Weave – 2-3 common defense, 1-2 endred

    3 single target attacks to slot the Smashing Haymaker set. You can finish out these attacks with the Acc/Dam and Dam/Recharge from Pounding Slugfest for an 8% regeneration bonus.

At this point you should have:
45% Smash/Lethal defense
40% Energy/Negative defense
30% Fire/Cold defense
20% Melee/Range defense (this covers most Psi damage)
13% Psi defense

Your resistances will be something like this:
Smash/Lethal – 90% capped
Energy/Negative – 30%
Fire/Cold – 17%

Very little damage will actually get past your defenses, and of what does very little will be Fire/Cold. This is the build I’ve been playing for the past several weeks and it’s nearly as durable as my Granite tankers.

My thanks to Local Man, Pep_Rally, Carnal, Rad_Avenger, and all the others who helped proofread and correct my mistakes. Thanks to issue 13, Invulnerability can once again be a great tanker.

Spoiler for Invulnerability Tanker, the first 20 levels:
*UPDATED* Invulnerability Tanker, the first 20 levels
UPDATE for Issue 20 including inherent Fitness
Since I wrote this a couple of years ago the Dev's have seen fit to grant every AT in the game with a sizable buff by making the entire Fitness pool inherent. What this means for all of us is that we no longer need to devote three power choices to acquire the Stamina power thus giving us far more flexibility in our builds, particularly in our pre-level 20 builds. Because we no longer need to shoehorn Hurdle/Health/Stamina in by level 20 we're free to get powers that help our durability and/or our offense.

As an added bonus we also got a brand new inherent ability, Bruising. This ability was added to our Tier one attack and it applies a -20% resistance debuff on our target for 10 seconds. What that means in plain English is that the enemy you hit with your tier one attack will take more damage, an attack that would normally do 100 points of damage would hit a Bruised enemy for 120 points of damage. It's not just your damage either, you've softened up that baddie so your Blaster teammate can hurt him more as well.

Now, on to the revised guide:

I've seen people asking about just how to build their Invuln tanker, and I thought I'd post a mini-guide to help new tankers through the first 20 levels. Many Invuln tankers end up with very substandard builds in the early levels, mainly because they had no idea what the critical powers to get were. This guide applies to any secondary you might want to pair with your Invulnerable tanker.

Those of you who already know the game can skip this part.

For those just joining us I should probably digress a bit and discuss the way damage and your powers work in the game. First, you need to know that damage comes in different types, with Smashing and Lethal being most common (abbreviated S/L) while other types such as Energy, Negative, Fire, Cold, Toxic and Psi being less common (E/N, F/C, T, P). Defenses and resistances typically protect against a pair of damage types hence they're referred to as S/L for a power that protects from Smashing & Lethal, E/N for a power that protects from Energy & Negative and so forth.

Expanding on that a bit any attack that uses punches, kicks, hammers or anything like that is what we would call "smashing" damage. "Lethal" damage includes things like guns, knives, swords, claws and similar. "Energy" damage is things like electricity, lasers and other "light" attacks while "negative" would be dark attacks. An example of negative damage is the blasts that the Skul's gang in the low levels use. "Fire" and "cold" are pretty self explanatory, fireballs and flamethrowers are fire while ice bolts are cold. "Psi" is the catagory that mental attacks fall under and it's quite rare in the game. "Toxic" is poison attacks and it's the rarest damage in the game.

Smashing and Lethal are the most common damage types and those you'll encounter most often throughout the entire game; from the figures I've seen roughly 70% of all damage falls into that category. Energy and Negative would be the second most common damage and it accounts for about another 20% of what you'll face while Fire, Cold and Psi are quite rare. Toxic is almost nonexistent outside of a very few situations, although you'll face a fair amount early dealing with Vahzilok (sp?). After level 20 Toxic nearly vanishes from the game until a few high level encounters in the 40's.

Here's an outline for your Invuln tanker's early career:

A good thumb rule for building an Invulnerable Tanker would be something like this:

    Level 1 - Temp. Invulnerability & tier one attack - TI is one of the four most vital powers in your build so get it right away. It provides three times the protection that your other choice, Resist Physical Damage, does (30% S/L resistance vs 10%). The Tier one attack is an example of Hobson's Choice although thanks to the new Tanker inherent power of Bruising it's usefulness has climbed dramatically.

    Level 2 - Dull Pain - This is another of your four cornerstone powers; I wouldn't delay it much and given the lack of choices this is, in my opinion, the ideal time for it. It provides a huge heal for you and it drastically increases your total hit points for 2 minutes after you hit it.

    Level 3 - 2 slots available, place in TI or Dull Pain.

    Level 4 - Tier 2 or 3 attack depending on your secondary, some you're better off with one over the other. For most secondaries the Tier 3 is the better choice.

    Level 5 - two slots into your level 4 attack

    Level 6 - Your travel power prerequisite. (For Fly that would be Air Superiority or Hover, for Super Jump that would be Combat Jumping, for Super Speed it would be Hasten and for Teleport it would be Recall Friend)

    Level 7 - 2 slots to distribute, candidates are Temp. Invuln, Dull Pain or your level 4 attack.

    Level 8 - Unyielding - this is your Mez protection and the third and arguably most vital of your cornerstone powers and you want to take it ASAP. With this power active you're almost totally immune to all hold, sleep, knockback, immobilize and stun effects and it provides minor S/L resistance and a bit more E/N/F/C resistance.

    Level 9 - 2 slots in Unyielding

    Level 10 - Taunt, you have to wait until 18 for your taunt aura. Alternately whichever of your attacks you didn't get at level 4.

    Level 11 - 2 slots to distribute, candidates for them are TI, DP and your attacks.

    Level 12 - This is an "open" selection, good candidates are Resist Physical Damage or Boxing (from the Fighting Pool, you'll need that pool if you want to build for maximum durability)

    Level 13 - 2 slots available, by this point you're probably starting to notice endurance being an issue so I'd put them into Stamina.

    Level 14 - Travel power (Fly, Super Jump, Super Speed or Teleport)

    Level 15 - 2 slots available

    Level 16 - This is an "open" selection, good choices are RPD, Boxing or Tough (Fighting Pool) or another power.

    Level 17 - 2 slots available

    Level 18 - Invincibility - this is the fourth of the cornerstone powers in your build and should be taken immediately. It provides a large amount of defense that increases with the number of baddies around you, provides a tohit bonus that also increases with the number of baddies around you so it's easier to hit them and it's your taunt aura so it attracts attention and makes the baddies STAY clumped around you.

    Level 19 - 2 slots in Invincibility

    Level 20 - Another "open" selection, candidates are your tier 5 or 6 attack, another power from the Fighting Pool or a power of your choice.

    Level 21 - 2 slots available


At this point you should have roughly the following:
TI - 4 slots
Tier 1 attack - 3-4 slots
Dull Pain - 5 slots
Tier 3 or 2 attack - 5 slots
Unyielding - 3-4 slots
Invincibility - 3 slots
Stamina - 3 slots

Your other powers are fine with the default slot for now, you may look to add some to them later on in the build. Now on your slotting... I would suggest slotting TI & Unyielding with 3 resist/1 endred, Dull Pain should get 3 recharge/2 heal and your attacks should get 1-2 accuracy/2-3 damage and 1 endred. Invincibility should get 2-3 defense/1 endred. You'll save more end with one endred in an attack than you will by slotting 2 endred in ALL of your toggles, so keep that in mind if you have end problems.

That pretty well covers your bases to level 20, from there on it will depend on your secondary. Boxing/Tough/Weave from the Fighting Pool are needed if you want to maximize your durability, thanks to Inherent Fitness you can get them early now. Also be sure and pick up Tough Hide at level 26, it's a nice chunk of endurance-free defense. I recommend fitting in Resist Energies sometime, probably in the 20's... it can wait until very late if you're really tight on your build though. Resist Elements is entirely skippable. If you're building for the defense soft cap (see the guide in my sig) you may find Unstoppable to be skippable as well.
I used CIT before they even joined the Titan network! But then I left for a long ol' time, and came back. Now I edit the wiki.

I'm working on sorting the Lore AMAs so that questions are easily found and linked: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Lore_AMA/Sorted Tell me what you think!

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Solitaire

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Re: After Tanker Information
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2014, 05:52:20 PM »
I went to the page you linked (https://web.archive.org/web/20120904233028/http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=112232).

Clicked on the guides, but they went straight to the boards.cityofheroes.... address (http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=133483)

I copied that, and replaced the guide url with it, from your initial link (the part in bold). That came out with the two links I provided, which work fine for me.

Below is the content, unformatted and not prettily colored.

Thanks I managed to get to the information using your links so very grateful, but trying to figure out your explanation as I still come up with page not found message?

Maybe I'm being abit stupid (or very) can you explain in laymans terms please :-[
“When you have lost hope, you have lost everything. And when you think all is lost, when all is dire and bleak, there is always hope.”

"Control the Controlables"

Blondeshell

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Re: After Tanker Information
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2014, 09:20:52 PM »
Sometimes the web archive can be a bit persnickety when clicking links on old pages. What I've found to work sometimes with the old forums is to replace the "t=XXXXXX" portion of a URL that does work with what is in the target link, letting the archive try to auto-resolve it to the closest date entry that it has.

Solitaire

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Re: After Tanker Information
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2014, 09:35:41 PM »
Sometimes the web archive can be a bit persnickety when clicking links on old pages. What I've found to work sometimes with the old forums is to replace the "t=XXXXXX" portion of a URL that does work with what is in the target link, letting the archive try to auto-resolve it to the closest date entry that it has.

Thank you very much, this trick worked  ;D
“When you have lost hope, you have lost everything. And when you think all is lost, when all is dire and bleak, there is always hope.”

"Control the Controlables"