City of Heroes Local Map and Sandbox Mode

[dwturducken]

This may be a stupid question, but I'm going to have to just ask it. (My laptop HDD died about a month ago, so I lost CoH on it. I still have all the files on my desktop, but I'm not near enough to just go look.)

Are there enough assets in the .pigg files to build a "new" game in a different engine? I'm talking about the maps, buildings, walls, NPCs, baddies, all of it. My understanding, from what has been said in other threads, is that all of that stuff is in the .pigg files, and the servers are just telling the client when to throw in what and where, and what it's supposed to do.

Even to my untrained brain, that sounds like a lot of work, but is it doable?

[Joshex]

This may be a stupid question, but I'm going to have to just ask it. (My laptop HDD died about a month ago, so I lost CoH on it. I still have all the files on my desktop, but I'm not near enough to just go look.)

Are there enough assets in the .pigg files to build a "new" game in a different engine? I'm talking about the maps, buildings, walls, NPCs, baddies, all of it. My understanding, from what has been said in other threads, is that all of that stuff is in the .pigg files, and the servers are just telling the client when to throw in what and where, and what it's supposed to do.

Even to my untrained brain, that sounds like a lot of work, but is it doable?

alot of it is there, Codewalker explained this to me before, alot of it is there but a few small things are missing, such as certain mission texts, those were hosted on the server side.

Yes it's true, for the sake of saving bandwidth the city of heroes .pigg files contain all the graphics and such locally so they don;t ahve to be downloaded every time you begin the game.

Is it possible to make another game out of it?

why of coarse, even in a different engine it's possible, why I could take all the assets and put them together in a blender game and make it act however I want it to, but yeah it would be alot of work.

when you transfer the Graphical elements to another engine chances are you will have to redo all the animations again, and possibly the rigging. and if you are really unlucky you might have to do a UV face layout for the textures.

I did that with the midna model from twilight princess, that was a job and a half but I learned a thing or 2 about how nintendo rigs it's stuff lol.

[Shenku]

alot of it is there, Codewalker explained this to me before, alot of it is there but a few small things are missing, such as certain mission texts, those were hosted on the server side.

Yes it's true, for the sake of saving bandwidth the city of heroes .pigg files contain all the graphics and such locally so they don;t ahve to be downloaded every time you begin the game.

Is it possible to make another game out of it?

why of coarse, even in a different engine it's possible, why I could take all the assets and put them together in a blender game and make it act however I want it to, but yeah it would be alot of work.

when you transfer the Graphical elements to another engine chances are you will have to redo all the animations again, and possibly the rigging. and if you are really unlucky you might have to do a UV face layout for the textures.

I did that with the midna model from twilight princess, that was a job and a half but I learned a thing or 2 about how nintendo rigs it's stuff lol.

Indeed, it is possible, in theory at least. The main questions would be "how hard is it to redo everything?" and "how long will it take to do?"

I've done a ton of digging through the .pigg files trying to find stuff, and some of it is buried in strange places, other things I can't even find, and I still can't for the life of me figure out what format the .geo files are/what software to view them with (I believe those are the mesh files, but unless I know how to open them, they're basically useless to me)... You could always load up a demo recording and snap a 3D screenshot of everything in the scene, and extract out only what you want from the .obj file (fixing and re-rigging as needed), but the Open GL file that allows this seems to conflict with the Icon file changes (or at least it did for me), so you'll need an unmodified install of the client to do that...

Side note, how did I miss this thread? Interesting stuff here.

[Kyriani]

Side note, how did I miss this thread? Interesting stuff here.

You missed it because before Joshex posted, this thread has been inactive since December 30th 2012.

With that said I am glad it was revived because I missed it initially and I hope it sparks more people looking to get COH up and running again >_>

[Codewalker]

and I still can't for the life of me figure out what format the .geo files are/what software to view them with (I believe those are the mesh files, but unless I know how to open them, they're basically useless to me)...

You won't find software to view them with; they're a custom format unique to the Cryptic/Paragon engine. They contain geometry, UV mapping, and bone information. The .anim files are custom as well.

So there's no off the shelf software to view them. We did some reverse engineering work on it about a year ago and Guy wrote a model viewer that works with some (but not all) of the GEOs:

[Golden Girl]

Are there enough assets in the .pigg files to build a "new" game in a different engine?

Yes - but the current owner of the models and the IP might react to that in an unfavorable way.

[dwturducken]

Yes - but the current owner of the models and the IP might react to that in an unfavorable way.

Yeah, there's the relevant stumbling block!

I'm thinking small, but that still doesn't mean I expect to spend the weekend digging around in my computer and come back Monday with a link to a torrent of a standalone Frostfire mission. For one thing, Iron Man 3 comes out this weekend!

I was kind of afraid of the rigging part. I guess whether the textures are useful depends on if there's a good wire frame (those pesky .geo files?) to put them on? It still sounds daunting, but it at least sounds doable. Thanks.

[Shenku]

You won't find software to view them with; they're a custom format unique to the Cryptic/Paragon engine. They contain geometry, UV mapping, and bone information. The .anim files are custom as well.

So there's no off the shelf software to view them. We did some reverse engineering work on it about a year ago and Guy wrote a model viewer that works with some (but not all) of the GEOs:

I imagined it was likely something like that.

I was mostly trying to look into it because I was curious if it was possible to add models and textures to the costume creator, not necessarily extract stuff. Despite digging through the .pigg files a metric crap-ton, I still haven't been able to figure it out yet...

[Joshex]

You won't find software to view them with; they're a custom format unique to the Cryptic/Paragon engine. They contain geometry, UV mapping, and bone information. The .anim files are custom as well.

So there's no off the shelf software to view them. We did some reverse engineering work on it about a year ago and Guy wrote a model viewer that works with some (but not all) of the GEOs:

Plan ZJ

in event that no company will pick-up city of heroes, in the event that Plan Z gets sued for IP infringement and gets taken down, in event that I sue NCSoft and fail, there is now a plan ZJ in my head but I need to figure out the golden coding of it. hmm... now that could work.. yes that will do nicely thankyou subconscious. as I said in a previous post he's the genius I'm just an idiot who's mouth and fingers like to keep running lol.

Speaking of them running Codewalker did you see my previous post? I was hoping for your input on wheather or not what I eluded to would be plausible? :

Harmless my butt, my first visit to recluse's victory taught me that. had two enemy players approach me and just stand there for a minute so i started blasting them with my blaster, then... my character strated lag jumping and wouldn't attack. then one of them attacked.

so yeah it can be used as a PVP hack, but seeing as PVP wasn't a huge deal like it is in other games it's really more laughable than anything.


OK, I have the answer this thread needs, and no one go halfdonkeying this! we need something that works without bugs;

the goal of this project will be to force a player client to think it's the server client, that can probably be done easily in cheat engine, however if it doesn't have the ability to do the basic battle and record figuring due to a lack of serverside calculations, then;

I came accross a game moding forum recently when trying to do something I probably shouldn't to a game I wanted to play in a certain way (no not cheating)

ok, well, there are game parsers, things that can rip models and all thier libraries out of a game and repackage them back into the game after edits.

so the idea here is to monitor the game's calls for serverside calculations and write scripts that fill those gaps, then repackage them into the original file.

we can probably use codewalker's Icon to begin the hacking to make it work.

Once you have a computer that can reliably mimic the server client's necessary calculations then it is time to set-up an Ethernet address, connect another computer to it via ethernet cable, now edit a version of Icon on the 2nd computer to be a Client and tell it to attach to the ethernet address of the 1st computer.

from where it should be easier to work out any kinks.

once kinks have been worked out load more maps onto your 'server' you might need 1 Computer for each map (atlas park ETC. not mission maps, mission maps can be on thier own computer all at once)

once you have enough of the game on servers, now it's time to go back and set-up IP addresses instead of ethernet addresses, IP addresses will allow others to connect from any computer accessing the internet.

then we have a server!

note; the creation of Savefiles will be necessary for players to create accounts, We can utilize the sentinel extractor outputs and I can write a script to read and write to them from the server client. -so this part is last but easy for me to code.

if anyone is interested in going through with this, then post here, cause I wont be doing it allone lol. I may know a bit about computers and thier interactions and I might know a decent beginners amount of scripting but I don't know enough about cheat engine to do certain portions of this. if codeweaver is on board I'll go get links to the game modding programs.

If pushed I can code the server calculations. but that will be knew for me, though it will be helpful for me to learn at the same time.

[dwturducken]

OK, now I see what you were saying about the .geo files. I don't know how to actually access them, yet, but I can view the .texture files inside the .pigg's. It looks like I have a lot to learn about 3D modelling.

[Blondeshell]

Plan ZJ

At first, I read that as Plan JZ, and I was thinking "What's Beyonce's take on MMOs?"

[Triplash]

At first, I read that as Plan JZ, and I was thinking "What's Beyonce's take on MMOs?"

Well any MMO Beyonce plays would have to be combat heavy, since she's a survivor and she's gonna make it.

It would be rated at least T for Teen, since she's a naughty girl with a bootylicious avatar.

There would be stealth elements, specifically disguises. For example she wouldn't be spotted by the enemy if she were a boy.

And it would have to be heavily gear oriented, since she really wants to put a ring on it.

Except, there must be a glitch in the aiming controls. All her shots keep pulling to the left, to the left.

[Kyriani]

Well any MMO Beyonce plays would have to be combat heavy, since she's a survivor and she's gonna make it.

It would be rated at least T for Teen, since she's a naughty girl with a bootylicious avatar.

There would be stealth elements, specifically disguises. For example she wouldn't be spotted by the enemy if she were a boy.

And it would have to be heavily gear oriented, since she really wants to put a ring on it.

Except, there must be a glitch in the aiming controls. All her shots keep pulling to the left, to the left.

This is probably the most amazing post evar!

[The Fifth Horseman]

the goal of this project will be to force a player client to think it's the server client, that can probably be done easily in cheat engine

then repackage them into the original file.

That's a negative, Ghost Rider. We're talking about a MMO - the server is a separate program. The server doesn't need the client's functionalities and vice versa - they're two distinct parts of the system. Trying to make the client to act like the server through memory editing is just not possible. Privileged (or "developer") mode does not equal running it as the server.
Also, no such thing as "player client" and "server client" - just "client" and "server", as in "Client-Server Model".

so the idea here is to monitor the game's calls for serverside calculations and write scripts that fill those gaps,

That is the general idea of what at least two projects are doing already. One of those projects has been doing packet capture for a while before the shutdown to get a solid base of known inputs - that allows (at least in theory) to treat the client mostly as a black box.
You'd be in the same boat as SEGS, though, with no test data that was known to be valid at some point (which isn't "nothing to work with" but pretty damn close). That would require dissecting and documenting the executable piece by piece. Not impossible, just... very, very tedious to do.

I may know a bit about computers and thier interactions and I might know a decent beginners amount of scripting but I don't know enough about cheat engine to do certain portions of this. if codeweaver is on board I'll go get links to the game modding programs.

Cheat Engine serves one purpose only - altering the memory assigned to a process. You should look into disassembly/debugging tools such as IDA or OllyDbg.
Won't get far if you are unfamiliar with assembly language, though (warning: learning ASM may result in permament SAN loss).

[Joshex]

That's a negative, Ghost Rider. We're talking about a MMO - the server is a separate program. The server doesn't need the client's functionalities and vice versa - they're two distinct parts of the system. Trying to make the client to act like the server through memory editing is just not possible. Privileged (or "developer") mode does not equal running it as the server.
Also, no such thing as "player client" and "server client" - just "client" and "server", as in "Client-Server Model".That is the general idea of what at least two projects are doing already. One of those projects has been doing packet capture for a while before the shutdown to get a solid base of known inputs - that allows (at least in theory) to treat the client mostly as a black box.
You'd be in the same boat as SEGS, though, with no test data that was known to be valid at some point (which isn't "nothing to work with" but pretty damn close). That would require dissecting and documenting the executable piece by piece. Not impossible, just... very, very tedious to do.Cheat Engine serves one purpose only - altering the memory assigned to a process. You should look into disassembly/debugging tools such as IDA or OllyDbg.
Won't get far if you are unfamiliar with assembly language, though (warning: learning ASM may result in permament SAN loss).

I just had a wild idea, If i could get cityofheroes.exe to run without the ncsoft launcher I can do it, i can and will write a server client lol, it would be easy.

All I'd do is write a simple program for the game itself to work with as a server, start simple with identifying the call for a server and what is a valid response then include that into the 'fake server' program and move onto the next step. bassically I'll write a logger;

 the game will be redirected to the logger when it looks for a server, when the game makes a call to the logger the call will be recorded in a .txt file.

then we aren't working blind.

but sadly I don't know how to run Cityofheroes without the NCSoft launcher., damn..

[downix]

I just had a wild idea, If i could get cityofheroes.exe to run without the ncsoft launcher I can do it, i can and will write a server client lol, it would be easy.

All I'd do is write a simple program for the game itself to work with as a server, start simple with identifying the call for a server and what is a valid response then include that into the 'fake server' program and move onto the next step. bassically I'll write a logger;

 the game will be redirected to the logger when it looks for a server, when the game makes a call to the logger the call will be recorded in a .txt file.

then we aren't working blind.

but sadly I don't know how to run Cityofheroes without the NCSoft launcher., damn..

If you read this thread from SEGS, it shows how to launch cityofheroes.exe w/o the NCSoft launcher:

http://segs.nemerle.eu/forumz/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=8

[Safehouse]

Ookayyyy sooo, my computer crashed and I lost my clients etc related to city of heroes (also lost NC Launcher, but I'm not fussed about losing that). I've downloaded the beta client and the SEGS CoX client, but where can I find the i23 client?

Wish I hadn't lost it 

[Stormsurge]

Keep up the good work dudes! 

[Joshex]

progress report, I've been talking with my programming buddies and they suggested I get a TCP IP sniffer, with a little bit of scripting I should be able to get it to pose as the server and log the information being sent in packets.

wheeeee, thats one hard part done, now I just need to set-it-up and do it, I will be scripting in python as thats what I'm familiar with.

what it will come down to is: a Test, only on this test I can fill in the answers with nearly anything I want and I wont get points taken off lol.

[zendarin]

progress report, I've been talking with my programming buddies and they suggested I get a TCP IP sniffer, with a little bit of scripting I should be able to get it to pose as the server and log the information being sent in packets.

wheeeee, thats one hard part done, now I just need to set-it-up and do it, I will be scripting in python as thats what I'm familiar with.

what it will come down to is: a Test, only on this test I can fill in the answers with nearly anything I want and I wont get points taken off lol.

Sounds like you unintentionally left out a few details when you were talking to your programming buddies. With a sniffer you would want to listen to communication between a client and a server, but as we are all painfully aware there is no server anymore. With just the client and a sniffer the difficulty of the task sky rockets.