Author Topic: CO losing subscriptions...forever  (Read 1740 times)

LaughingAlex

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CO losing subscriptions...forever
« on: June 02, 2018, 02:21:06 AM »
https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/champions-online/news/detail/10916073

Title kind of says it all, CO is getting rid of the old subscription in favor of a one time "premium pack".  Unfortunately for those of us unsubscribed, we'll be forced to either make a freeform a weak puny and pathetic archtype, pay 200 dollars upfront, or I guess an item they plan to add(I don't think the freeform slot counts, it's a separate character slot).  I'm a little peeved at this.  They clearly didn't think this through.  The premium pack should just give us access to all our freeforms instead of them trying to nickle and dime us to death.

They are also placing a hard cap on the maximum number of character slots.  This bothers me deeply to, CO is a game in which altitus was a benefit, and they are removing it.  They are effectively neutering CO of part of it's appeal that kept players around.  Not to mention with the changes it seems to me that the long term viability of CO will be going down the drain.  Even the whales will be hard pressed to find any reason to spend money on the game when they cannot even buy a new character slot anymore cause they maxed out.
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Tahquitz

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Re: CO losing subscriptions...forever
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2018, 02:44:52 AM »
This is also the method they're doing for STO as well.

Something tells me Freemium MTs are making Cryptic more money than actual subs.  Neverwinter used a similar model to SWL for Premium service (make a monthly contribution for perks, not a subscription), so that's unlikely to change.

Subs are still available until July 2018.  If you wish to sub instead of doing MTs, they'll still keep the subscription rolling as long as you keep paying.  Once the sub is cancelled, your only choice is the Premium Pack.

The major painpoint is Freeform slots.  Dropping the sub forces the Freeform to AT conversion on your toons.  Right now, there's no MT to buy a Freeform slot for an existing Free toon to convert back, so right now it's permanent.  (Unless you get Lifetime.)  The second one is monthly sub rewards are dead going forward.  To get them after the Premium Pack launches, you either need to buy them (if any are available in the C-Store), or sub for Lifetime.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2018, 02:50:41 AM by Tahquitz »
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LaughingAlex

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Re: CO losing subscriptions...forever
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2018, 04:23:39 AM »
This is also the method they're doing for STO as well.

Something tells me Freemium MTs are making Cryptic more money than actual subs.  Neverwinter used a similar model to SWL for Premium service (make a monthly contribution for perks, not a subscription), so that's unlikely to change.

Subs are still available until July 2018.  If you wish to sub instead of doing MTs, they'll still keep the subscription rolling as long as you keep paying.  Once the sub is cancelled, your only choice is the Premium Pack.

The major painpoint is Freeform slots.  Dropping the sub forces the Freeform to AT conversion on your toons.  Right now, there's no MT to buy a Freeform slot for an existing Free toon to convert back, so right now it's permanent.  (Unless you get Lifetime.)  The second one is monthly sub rewards are dead going forward.  To get them after the Premium Pack launches, you either need to buy them (if any are available in the C-Store), or sub for Lifetime.

I am currently not in a position where Icould safely afford a lifetime or go gold right now.  Nore would I even if I was at this point.  Thing is i'd end up canceling my sub sooner or later.

To be honest, at most I may just use a one time purchase to unlock the only character Ihave with justice gear(who I remade into someone else and is fun to play as) and that'd be that for freeing freeforms.  I couldn't fathom unlocking all of my freeforms.  Even then though, I think this is going to hurt CO rather than help it.  The fact that they are setting a max for alts, removing the account wide costume slot purchases and taking away the level 40 character slot.  I mean I just think this system is hard on altaholics and veterans, the people most likely to support CO who are left.  I kind of wonder if, while I get they are trying to follow the trends in mmorpgs of going one time fee now, I get the feeling they are also doing it to cut support for CO.
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Xev

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Re: CO losing subscriptions...forever
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2018, 04:48:55 AM »
I kind of wonder if, while I get they are trying to follow the trends in mmorpgs of going one time fee now, I get the feeling they are also doing it to cut support for CO.

I figured they (PWI?) did it because they're tired of dealing with subs due to that's not where their money's coming from. It's the only thing that made sense in STO and that seems punctuated here.

This is also the method they're doing for STO as well.


In STO, no one had this happen...

Quote
What happens to my gold characters if my sub lapses?

If your sub lapses, and you had gold characters, they will change to silver like they would normally.  If you want to keep them gold, you will have to purchase a lifetime sub.  Otherwise, they will have to be converted to archetypes in order to be played.

If you purchased a freeform slot, that will forever remain a freeform slot.

We are looking into the possibility of creating a purchasable item to convert silver slots into freeform slots.


To be honest, at most I may just use a one time purchase to unlock the only character Ihave with justice gear(who I remade into someone else and is fun to play as) and that'd be that for freeing freeforms.  I couldn't fathom unlocking all of my freeforms.

How can you unlock a FF when subs go away without having a LTS? They say there is a "possibility" you can do so?

Unless there is some cheap FF slot unlock that I missed, they are totally screwing their loyal subbers! You know, the toons that are out there auctioning for the costume contests every week and are helping out with the newb questions and all that, while I, am off playing STO, and all my FF's are safe and secure. So, either I am missing something, or, they have to fix this. Because it's just too screwed up. Very Unchampiony..

P.S.

I CAN COLOR MY POWERS! finally. woot.

And I bet I can Finally get on the Test Server, too..

---------------

Oh, and..

Even then though, I think this is going to hurt CO rather than help it.  The fact that they are setting a max for alts, removing the account wide costume slot purchases and taking away the level 40 character slot.  I mean I just think this system is hard on altaholics and veterans, the people most likely to support CO who are left.

Definitely.

CO seems to still be here because of pay-to-win (in CO), and, Cryptic has other games that make money so they let CO ride along. I'm not saying that CO deserves that kind of treatment because I think it's a great game with a great base, always have, I'm just saying that's the feeling I get. I pity the altaholics, too! The backbone of CO...

« Last Edit: June 02, 2018, 05:05:15 AM by Xev »
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Xev

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Re: CO losing subscriptions...forever
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2018, 04:45:51 PM »
If you never had a sub but have FF slots, like me and many other players, you win in this deal. Just like in STO.

We get Power Color tinting.. I bet we get Test Server access - I mean... if we don't, who is going to be on Test? Just LTS?

1500 Zen isn't horrible for Color Tinting and.... that other stuff. I mean, tinting was the one thing you couldn't buy for any price, before.

That other stuff isn't so horrible, either..

40 auction slots??? Well yeah, that would be nice. From like... 10 or whatever was the default for Silvers. 15?
3 more bag slots??? Per toooon? Yes, plx.

Bunches of Costumes? Sure, ok.. Yeah. Even I would get something out of that many costume additions, probably.

The Travel powers are .... better than not having them. I'm not a Flight fan, for example, but for standing (hovering?) around, something like Fire Flight when I'm playing with Fire would be better than just normal Flight, so, yeah, those are better than not useful.

It's never been a better time to be Silver in CO.. Man, it has wayy never been a better time to be Silver in STO.. All my toons past/present/future get a pretty darn substantial upgrade and I have a stack of retcons waiting - and nothing else has changed.

Hard to believe that their (whoever collects the money - PWI and Cryptic) mini-transactions are so sweet that they'd just toss out subs for the most part, huh?

I said it's Pay to Win in CO, before... It's not pay to win... It's more... Pay to Coast. "15 bucks for a retcon? Noooo problem." *click* Lol.. not me.. But.. judging by what's going on... enough people are clicking those buttons that cost Zen and buying the Zen with cash to change all the rules with Subs and Silvers. Instant gratification is making them that much dough that they can dump subs. Pretty wild. Works for me! Just give the subbers their FF slots is all I gotta say.
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ZeeHero

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Re: CO losing subscriptions...forever
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2018, 07:31:37 PM »
By screwing over every subbing customer a million times over (and anyone LTS to a lesser degree) they have nailed the final nail in CO's coffin. 90% of my friends who still bother playing have informed me they will be leaving. and without them I have no reason to log on either. CO is a ghost town now, wait till after these changes sink in.

Tahquitz

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Re: CO losing subscriptions...forever
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2018, 10:57:34 PM »
In STO, no one had this happen...

I was referring to the end of subscriptions in STO.  The Freeform portion doesn't apply to STO, natch.
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Angel Phoenix77

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Re: CO losing subscriptions...forever
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2018, 11:38:03 PM »
By screwing over every subbing customer a million times over (and anyone LTS to a lesser degree) they have nailed the final nail in CO's coffin. 90% of my friends who still bother playing have informed me they will be leaving. and without them I have no reason to log on either. CO is a ghost town now, wait till after these changes sink in.
This doesn't surprise me in the least. I knew co was in trouble once development halted and never picked back up. I think that co wont last the next 2 years. It was a game that had tremendous potential, that was wasted. Then a form of a forum cartel took shape, and somehow was allowed to chase away anyone that had an idea that could have helped. Then these are same people somehow became the only people the dev team listened too.
Sliverspar, lied about about me saying "I hope co crashes and burns." Now I am going to say I dont have hope, becuase it is crashing and burning. And I brought marshmellows.


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Castegyre

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Re: CO losing subscriptions...forever
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2018, 01:19:38 AM »
I would like to have the character creator as a stand alone toy to play with.

I don't have much else to say at this point.   :roll:

Xev

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Re: CO losing subscriptions...forever
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2018, 01:24:49 AM »
I was referring to the end of subscriptions in STO.  The Freeform portion doesn't apply to STO, natch.

I hear ya! I was just saying... wow.. I was shocked.

In STO, I think it was fairly painless for Subscribers to lose their sub. I never ever hear anyone complain in-game, or, here, about what happened. It's like nothing even happened. In CO, subscribers get a firm kick straight into the genitals. I mean, come on.. Who never lets their monthly sub, lag....*ever*... And if you do! Man are you screwed.. Unless you LTS. Or Start Over with the FF slots you got while subbed by buying new ones, and... starting over.. Or play your AT's!

Ouch!

They didn't do that in STO.


CO is a ghost town now

OH BS. I just got done with a bigillion Smashes/Grabs/Grab!s. The whole while, I was thinking, "wow, the queue's haven't been this hot even on a weekend, for awhile". There's people doing the Event, too.

So, I call BS.

I can believe that everyone subbed is really, really, upset, though. Especially the longtimers and faithfuls who make the game alive, and not a ghost town. I also believe that these same people are battle hardened veterans when it comes to handling disappointment.


This doesn't surprise me in the least. I knew co was in trouble once development halted and never picked back up. I think that co wont last the next 2 years. It was a game that had tremendous potential, that was wasted. Then a form of a forum cartel took shape, and somehow was allowed to chase away anyone that had an idea that could have helped. Then these are same people somehow became the only people the dev team listened too.
Sliverspar, lied about about me saying "I hope co crashes and burns." Now I am going to say I dont have hope, becuase it is crashing and burning. And I brought marshmellows.




An Angel sings me a familiar song  : )

2 years, though, is generous of you I thought! I mean, sheesh. It's an old game. If it makes it another 2 years, that's pretty good. I hope it makes it another 22 and more, just saying. Saying an old game that rarely gets updated substantially will 'only' last 2 more years isn't that bold for even before the Subscriber Screwover we are about to witness.

It's a screwed up deal, for Subscribers/LTS, for sure. Besides everything else, you definitely can't take something from Subscribers that you didn't take from Free players.. I know that subscribers never could keep their FF slots, and that hasn't changed, but, I think a lot of people (all?) never would have invested hundreds of hours in a toon that would one day become unavailable if they ever decided to drop their sub. Who never has burnout or RL stuff or whatever and drops their sub? Just subs infinitely whether they are currently playing or not. No one without an LTS..

CO is completely changing the rules for subscriptions by removing them and maybe right after you gave them money. How they can tell you, you can get one thing for your money one day (the ability to infinitely re-sub and re-gold your toons, for example), and then the next day tell you that all that is going away, just doesn't seem right or even legal.

They may have their legals covered with some clause in the terms of service but that doesn't make what they have planned, right.

Didn't anyway ever stop and say... "Hey, this isn't working like it did for STO.."

I personally think it's nuts to give up Subs. It's free money they are throwing away. It's like, to them (PWI/Cryptic..), the hassle of dealing with payments and a free costume piece everyone complains about every month is greater than the value of getting cash that they get from subs.

"It's way easier to collect the dough when they just click the buttons we put all over the place for them to spend it".

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Angel Phoenix77

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Re: CO losing subscriptions...forever
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2018, 01:55:52 AM »
I hear ya! I was just saying... wow.. I was shocked.

In STO, I think it was fairly painless for Subscribers to lose their sub. I never ever hear anyone complain in-game, or, here, about what happened. It's like nothing even happened. In CO, subscribers get a firm kick straight into the genitals. I mean, come on.. Who never lets their monthly sub, lag....*ever*... And if you do! Man are you screwed.. Unless you LTS. Or Start Over with the FF slots you got while subbed by buying new ones, and... starting over.. Or play your AT's!

Ouch!

They didn't do that in STO.


OH BS. I just got done with a bigillion Smashes/Grabs/Grab!s. The whole while, I was thinking, "wow, the queue's haven't been this hot even on a weekend, for awhile". There's people doing the Event, too.

So, I call BS.

I can believe that everyone subbed is really, really, upset, though. Especially the longtimers and faithfuls who make the game alive, and not a ghost town. I also believe that these same people are battle hardened veterans when it comes to handling disappointment.


An Angel sings me a familiar song  : )

2 years, though, is generous of you I thought! I mean, sheesh. It's an old game. If it makes it another 2 years, that's pretty good. I hope it makes it another 22 and more, just saying. Saying an old game that rarely gets updated substantially will 'only' last 2 more years isn't that bold for even before the Subscriber Screwover we are about to witness.

It's a screwed up deal, for Subscribers/LTS, for sure. Besides everything else, you definitely can't take something from Subscribers that you didn't take from Free players.. I know that subscribers never could keep their FF slots, and that hasn't changed, but, I think a lot of people (all?) never would have invested hundreds of hours in a toon that would one day become unavailable if they ever decided to drop their sub. Who never has burnout or RL stuff or whatever and drops their sub? Just subs infinitely whether they are currently playing or not. No one without an LTS..

CO is completely changing the rules for subscriptions by removing them and maybe right after you gave them money. How they can tell you, you can get one thing for your money one day (the ability to infinitely re-sub and re-gold your toons, for example), and then the next day tell you that all that is going away, just doesn't seem right or even legal.

They may have their legals covered with some clause in the terms of service but that doesn't make what they have planned, right.

Didn't anyway ever stop and say... "Hey, this isn't working like it did for STO.."

I personally think it's nuts to give up Subs. It's free money they are throwing away. It's like, to them (PWI/Cryptic..), the hassle of dealing with payments and a free costume piece everyone complains about every month is greater than the value of getting cash that they get from subs.

"It's way easier to collect the dough when they just click the buttons we put all over the place for them to spend it".
Atleast it is a failure song :)
I did predict that City of would shut down :(. I am now predicting co shtting down. The main diffrence between STO and co is that STO is the bigger game. And the devs seem to love what they do, whereas, the co devs seem like they really dont care.
Xev, I agree all this does is pancake over the lifers even more.
One day the Phoenix will rise again.

Xev

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Re: CO losing subscriptions...forever
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2018, 02:36:24 AM »
The main diffrence between STO and co is that STO is the bigger game. And the devs seem to love what they do


Another main difference, is.... STO makes money. Star Trek people buy those ships! And other stuff. You know the STO C-store is doing well.. And people are happy to spend and the devs are happy to find new ways for them to spend. It's kinda ideal, at this point, from a gamer/developer standpoint. They have to have something someone wants to spend money on to make any money and they are doing well at finding things people want to spend money on.

People are spending because they *want* to. They want to toss that cash at STO. Like I wanted to toss that cash at CoH when they were doing so well at finding ways to take it, all the way until the last days. It's the ideal way to pay and play. People only spend money on stuff that just flat out appeals to them - not necessarily to get ahead (except by saving time...) in the game.

STO is as deep or deeper into development as they have been since I started playing. They are nonstop and currently paying beloved celebrities from the different Star Trek spinoffs just to be in their mishes I never play! (Ok, not never.. but not often..). And you can't even sub to the game! Except for LTS.

Pretty friggin' impressive.

They obviously didn't do the transition right when it came to CO. People are losing things that they had no idea they could ever lose while the game still exists and being dictated to on how to keep them in ways that aren't unreasonable to see as unreasonable. Years and years after their original and ongoing agreement with the company (that they could always re-sub and re-gold/re-FF), in some cases. It's just wrong. And to the wrong people. Even if they Aren't the ones pushing all the Cash buttons, it's just wrong. A lot of people who push those cash buttons probably wouldn't have nearly as much fun playing PWI/Cryptic games if the people being wronged weren't around. Everyone loses. They goofed.


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Tahquitz

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Re: CO losing subscriptions...forever
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2018, 02:40:39 AM »
I am now predicting co shtting down. The main diffrence between STO and co is that STO is the bigger game. And the devs seem to love what they do, whereas, the co devs seem like they really dont care.
Xev, I agree all this does is pancake over the lifers even more.

It isn't the first time someone said that CO is close to shutting down.  And it probably won't be the last.

Will CO make improvements that will increase it's cash flow?  Certainly.  Is it still facing the same problem from 2013?  Yup.
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Castegyre

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Re: CO losing subscriptions...forever
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2018, 07:05:27 AM »
Everything ends eventually. I think I would rather have a game end with an abrupt, even if rude, action than have it linger on indefinitely in a sort of abusive half-life as its fans are strung along.

ZeeHero

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Re: CO losing subscriptions...forever
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2018, 01:12:49 PM »
Yeah the greed and dishonesty of this action is obvious and I think enough people are leaving the game due to it that there will no longer be enough players to justify keeping it running.

Xev

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Re: CO losing subscriptions...forever
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2018, 03:25:36 PM »
Everything ends eventually. I think I would rather have a game end with an abrupt, even if rude, action than have it linger on indefinitely in a sort of abusive half-life as its fans are strung along.

Yeah the greed and dishonesty of this action is obvious and I think enough people are leaving the game due to it that there will no longer be enough players to justify keeping it running.

I think you guys are missing the point.

I think
1.) they don't care what you think, and, be happy the game is still around.
2.) they didn't do this to CO... they did it to STO.. What CO did is a hack job of what STO did.. It is totally nothing personal. They were updating STO and you got screwed in the process.

Now...

In true CO fashion.....

We (bitch, and..) wait for them to fix things....

As we (ok, YOU, mostly - active players) always do.

Or the game goes away, whichever comes first.

This, I believe, is the point.

Could be wrong. it happens lots.
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ZeeHero

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Re: CO losing subscriptions...forever
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2018, 10:57:08 PM »
Explain how they were obligated to shoehorn in something which works for STO but is HORRIBLE for CO into CO.

Explain how the game will continue to run for long after this.

Explain how I'm happy that this disgusting abomination is allowed to keep running

Kaos Arcanna

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Re: CO losing subscriptions...forever
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2018, 11:17:55 PM »
I have a lifetime sub. I have 50 toons and 17 open slots. My understanding is I will not lose the open slots, but I will not be able to acquire any new ones once they are full. (And it stings losing that new character slot after each toon hits 40.)

I feel like the STO switchover made the CO change inevitable probably for some software reason.

Making the change without giving people the ability to keep their freeforms is asking for trouble. Lots of people cannot afford to just drop $200.00 (or $300 when its not on sale) at a week's notice.

I still enjoy the game I am still going to keep playing, but I have less reason to buy Zen now than I used to-- and I was a regular purchaser of Zen.

I do not think the game will be around long enough to justify buying a second LTS.

(I don't mean that I expect it to shut down in a year, but I don't think CO has a long future ahead of it ... unless they somehow manage to port it to console.)


Tahquitz

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Re: CO losing subscriptions...forever
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2018, 11:52:43 PM »
Explain how they were obligated to shoehorn in something which works for STO but is HORRIBLE for CO into CO.

Word on the street is the call came from on up high.  Perfect World Entertainment said "do it nao or KTHXBAI CO".  Cryptic is following orders on this one.  (Going off of conversations I'm hearing in various games, no proof.  Like any of the substantiations about NCSoft's real reason to shut down CoH.  All conjecture... NCSoft's official reason is still "We tried, but sorry.")

I suspect if it's about aligning Cryptic's business model to fit the rest of PWE, Lifetime Subs might be next.  (No more new ones.  Keep the perks, but bye-bye Zen allowance.)
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Castegyre

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Re: CO losing subscriptions...forever
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2018, 11:58:24 PM »
It makes more sense to me that this was not a decision made for one game and then applied to another, but rather a decision that was made to move these titles away from a sub base all together. They probably staggered it out to avoid the risk of having more than one game with massive bugs or problems at the same time.


CO already seems to be a nearly invisible blip on the greater MMO landscape. There are so many games out now with more in the works that at this rate the only thing I can see CO doing from here is become even more insignificant than it already is. That is, unles the people running it make a real effort to turn it around. Call me a pessimist, but based on the last couple of years I don't think they're prepared or able to do that.

Eventually being one of the only super hero games, or even one of the few non-fantasy games, isn't going to be enouogh for CO. Which is sad, because that's all it really has going for it. Will the powers that be keep the title limping along at that point? I don't know, none of us does. We don't know what the goals and means are inside of the company. We can't clearly predict what the breaking point will be or if their is one.

I do have a LTS to STO but I pop my head in there rarely. I don't have a LTS for CO. I don't know at this point if I want to give them any more money or time. I'll have to wait and see. In the meantime, however, if I see something that I think is BS I will still voice my opinion. No amounts of, "I'm still having fun so it's fine" dismissive arguments are going to change that.