So is COH finally dead?

[Lycantropus]

I found another piece to my grandfather's old Heathkit while I was doing some work in his attic, yesterday. Time to get busy on that text adventure version of the game!

Didn't Matt "Positron" Miller already do that?

It was awesome. Can't wait for the sequel, maybe with a little longer storyline this time.

[dwturducken]

I don't recall it being a full game. I thought they put out some screenies from a "found game" for April Fool's a few years ago. It's not like this is my first priority, but it seems like a fun exercise, along with trying to see how much I can build using existing assets (likely just textures) from the .pigg files in another engine. All while I'm also working and going to school. I would actually expect results from Joshex and Codewalker before you see anything from me. Oh, and both Plan Z projects. Also that other thing that  Aviticus Gladius is working on with his existing engine and studio.

Yeah, don't pin any hopes on me. If I had any real ability yet, I'd be putting it toward one of the Plan Z projects.

[Jaybonaut]

Ok so I have been gone for months on end and for some reason I looked up the Titan Network to see if anything, however incredibly unlikely, that there was anything to note whatsoever on the return of the best MMO I've ever played...

Unless I missed it, no one had anything positive to say in the thread and all predictions that the Titan efforts would go nowhere were right, way back to when the shutdown was announced.  I don't know what's happened in the 11 months or so but apparently all efforts have continuously failed, correct?

I'm not 'unicorning' or whatever goofy text alteration rules have been implemented to avoid saying what we all know unicorning to mean anyway - I saw the Atlas gathering video linked to another vid I was watching and it made me curious enough to look up this old forum to see if there is anything to note since September.

[JaguarX]

Ok so I have been gone for months on end and for some reason I looked up the Titan Network to see if anything, however incredibly unlikely, that there was anything to note whatsoever on the return of the best MMO I've ever played...

Unless I missed it, no one had anything positive to say in the thread and all predictions that the Titan efforts would go nowhere were right, way back to when the shutdown was announced.  I don't know what's happened in the 11 months or so but apparently all efforts have continuously failed, correct?

I'm not 'unicorning' or whatever goofy text alteration rules have been implemented to avoid saying what we all know unicorning to mean anyway - I saw the Atlas gathering video linked to another vid I was watching and it made me curious enough to look up this old forum to see if there is anything to note since September.

Well....not exactly.


While most things havent quite panned out as many hoped, and was the most likely result even though back then, most aint want to hear none of it, it wasnt all failure. At least three games are still on and in the making.

It's a little bit more quieter as really, I think, the truth of the matter have mostly set in and it's went from pure euphoria hope to a little bit more realistic hope and not only hoping, but actually getting down to it and realizing that NCSoft is not going to all of a sudden sink over night and in a term of surrender they sell the IP to some white knight in shining armor of a company and the lights come back on as if nothing happened and all the players play everly ever after. It's the point where I think it's mostly realization that NCSoft wil live, on and it's up to us to keep COX alive in one manner or another through the games being made. But either way, it will take some years, I think one is near kickstarter soon, and others are becoming more tangible in the work being done.


I say stick around, you'll see tidbits of updates, every fri. iirc from H&V and either Monday or Tues from TPP, and Valience post updates here and there too.


But as far as the return of the actual COX, things just didnt work out yet, but dont count it out yet, still awaiting Google reply. But again,  it's a very long shot and that may too not work out but it's a bit too early to say for sure right now.

[Captain Electric]

Ok so I have been gone for months on end and for some reason I looked up the Titan Network to see if anything, however incredibly unlikely, that there was anything to note whatsoever on the return of the best MMO I've ever played...

Unless I missed it, no one had anything positive to say in the thread and all predictions that the Titan efforts would go nowhere were right, way back to when the shutdown was announced.  I don't know what's happened in the 11 months or so but apparently all efforts have continuously failed, correct?

I'm not 'unicorning' or whatever goofy text alteration rules have been implemented to avoid saying what we all know unicorning to mean anyway - I saw the Atlas gathering video linked to another vid I was watching and it made me curious enough to look up this old forum to see if there is anything to note since September.

You know, I just have this image of you coming in after months and months, and tapping your foot impatiently at the people who rolled up their sleeves and got to work. There are all kinds of efforts going on, some more obvious and some less obvious, but frankly, I don't see any reason why you ought to be clued in. Why don't you just carry on; if there's any substantive news, I'm sure it'll find its way to you eventually.

[TonyV]

Ok so I have been gone for months on end and for some reason I looked up the Titan Network to see if anything, however incredibly unlikely, that there was anything to note whatsoever on the return of the best MMO I've ever played...

Yes, this is exactly correct, there have been absolutely no new developments whatsoever.  We've just been sitting around doing nothing, and have absolutely nothing new or interesting to show for the time spent. 

[Electric-Knight]

CoH: "To blathe..."

[JaguarX]

well now, lets not jump the gun on this guy.


I think he literally mean (after re-reading it a few times) the return of actual COX, aka the actual original game. There really havent been much news on it or any sign much that it's actually returning, the original actual game.

[Segev]

Yes, please, let's not jump on somebody coming in and looking around, seeing the dust of several projects, at least two of which have moved elsewhere for the bulk of their work, and wondering if the detritus left behind combined with the lack of a ticker-tape parade celebrating CoH's return is a sign that "it's over."

It's not an unreasonable assumption, and he took the time to come in and ASK rather than just sticking to that assumption. Please, everybody, do not enter into the all-too-easy trap of becoming the frustrated worker who feels that not being recognized immediately for his labors is a personal sleight. It isn't. This is a labor of love for all of us; we do not do it for the accolades, so do not be upset when we don't GET accolades from everybody who comes in.

This is not to insult nor berate those of us who are still here, either, so please don't let my slightly sharp tone sting too much.

We need people returning and looking for signs of life to find welcoming arms and encouragement. The Phoenix Project (one of the Plan Z efforts to produce a successor game) is actively trying to recruit to its community base (not its contributor corps, its audience!) because a Kickstarter is scheduled for Sept. 8, and we want to have the biggest pool of potential players ready to back us as possible. The more, the closer to our true eventual kick-off audience, the less each needs to contribute on average to help us meet our goal and the more we prove that this truly is an audience that will support a game!

So we must be welcoming, and patient, and show people what is still going on. Sarcasm and scolding for them not having been around or not having "looked hard enough" is counterproductive, and, moreover, counter to the community spirit we like to think CoH had. A little patience and a helpful review of the state of things and where to go for more information on at least one of the projects will achieve more happiness for those already here and the newcomer. Is that not the goal we should all have? Maximizing our happiness as a community?

[Hyperstrike]

Ok so I have been gone for months on end and for some reason I looked up the Titan Network to see if anything, however incredibly unlikely, that there was anything to note whatsoever on the return of the best MMO I've ever played...

Unless I missed it, no one had anything positive to say in the thread and all predictions that the Titan efforts would go nowhere were right, way back to when the shutdown was announced.  I don't know what's happened in the 11 months or so but apparently all efforts have continuously failed, correct?

I'm not 'unicorning' or whatever goofy text alteration rules have been implemented to avoid saying what we all know unicorning to mean anyway - I saw the Atlas gathering video linked to another vid I was watching and it made me curious enough to look up this old forum to see if there is anything to note since September.

Okay.  It's not that "nothing" has happened.

Attempts to recover CoH are ongoing.
We have not one, but two game projects happening.
We've got the ability to log into a stand alone instance of the game, dink around in the costume editor and fly around various portions of the city.
And an effort is being made to write a stand-alone server that'll allow people to get back into the game.

Is it the recovery of 16 servers and all the client data?  No.  Not yet.

[Triplash]

We have not one, but two game projects happening.

Three, actually. Valiance Online is looking pretty good these days too.

[Captain Electric]

So we must be welcoming, and patient, and show people what is still going on. Sarcasm and scolding...

Welcoming and patience is all I've ever had for people here and outside, and Tony is the freaking poster child for welcoming and patience. But sarcasm and scolding is the only thing you're going to get as a reward for your patience in this case. You may not have interacted with Jayboh on the official forums. Some of us did. If you're really masochistic, then go right ahead and open your arms. The reaction he got from me and Tony is likely the one he was baiting us for, but he may come back to toy with the folks who don't know any better.

[Segev]

If you say so; I was unaware there was history involved, here. If so, I'm sure we'll see true colors before long. If not, hey, maybe he's turned over a leaf. We'll see!

Thanks for the warning and explanation, though.

[Randomvector]

Can't we all just, get along?
And make Costumes with Icon?
And run around the city in them?
ANd look at the websites for successor projects.
And enjoy the winks and nods and say no mores?

[Captain Electric]

Sigh, sorry if I sounded harsh. I just don't want to see the patience of good people get used for disingenuous entertainment purposes. What's worse, a knee-jerk reaction like my post probably qualifies as entertainment.

[Vasarto]

I heard that there was a thing you can do solo play in the game. Where is this?

[JaguarX]

Welcoming and patience is all I've ever had for people here and outside, and Tony is the freaking poster child for welcoming and patience. But sarcasm and scolding is the only thing you're going to get as a reward for your patience in this case. You may not have interacted with Jayboh on the official forums. Some of us did. If you're really masochistic, then go right ahead and open your arms. The reaction he got from me and Tony is likely the one he was baiting us for, but he may come back to toy with the folks who don't know any better.

whoa I though we was leaving the old forum past behind us and fresh start?

But then again, I dont think I remember him much though.


I should of figured something was up and there was some history as your response was a bit out of character than what you usually say.

[Aggelakis]

I heard that there was a thing you can do solo play in the game. Where is this?

There is no solo game.

Codewalker's Titan ICON lets you play with the costume creator and "log into the game", inasmuch as it allows you to load into maps. Most of the static NPCs are there. You can fly around and change maps and do demorecord MOVs (similar to emotes) with specific commands.

http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,7288.0.html
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Titan_Icon

[Mazz vs The World]

I'm so glad most of you are extremely optimistic and you take the very small steps people have made in recovering a COH-ish game as some form of accomplishment, I do have to fall on the side of not much has been done. Sure we have 3 projects so far in the works attempting to be a spiritual successor, but it takes a MMO years to develop so who knows when they will come out. Also yes we have ICON where you can create a character and run around and spawn npcs inputting codes (which I personally hate) to stand idle. These are good things for some but for others it's "nothing", you can't get upset because some feel that these things aren't much to build up hope for a return of COH. So I agree with Jaguar don't bash the guy cause he sees whatever progress you think is something, as nothing. He's entitled to his own opinion just like you are. Also I like to keep the past out of the present. So if he was a "troll" (hate that word) on the COH forums let him prove to be the same here before treating him as such. Not all of us will be happy with the accomplishments some have made. I for one appreciate that people take time out of their day to build anything at all but I also don't see it as a determining factor that we will have the game back 6 months from now or even a couple years from now. Only thing you can do is wait and see. To be clear I am not bashing anyones ideas, plans, or progress. I am simply saying that I can see why someone would come to this network and see the accomplishments made here as "nothing". If you disagree that's fine we can agree to disagree, no arguments needed.

[TonyV]

I do have to fall on the side of not much has been done.

I respectfully disagree.  There has been a lot of work done.  Thousands of man hours, in fact, that I personally know about, and probably even more that I'm unaware of.  I really do have to take exception to anyone, especially someone who admits that they don't make any effort to stay plugged in to what's going on, dropping by now and then just to remind us all that the clock hasn't turned back a year and insinuating that, as you say, "not much has been done."

Sure we have 3 projects so far in the works attempting to be a spiritual successor, but it takes a MMO years to develop so who knows when they will come out.

Okay, just for the sake of having a number and giving a lot of slack, let's say that one of the Plan Z projects is released in four years.  It's 2017, and we finally have our spiritual successor.  Has it taken a long time?  Yes, and believe me, if I could speed things up, I would.  But the way I look at it, let's say that all three teams say, "Crap, that's a long time.  Why bother?"  The result is that in 2017, we don't have a spiritual successor to City of Heroes.  So yes, MMOs take a long time to develop.  But given the choice between having a game in 2017 and not having a game at all, I'll choose having a game in 2017 and I'll be grateful for it.

And incidentally, I'm not going to get into too many details, but I think that 2017 is much longer than it will take.  Cryptic developed the original City of Heroes engine--the guts of what makes it go and by far the hardest part of development--from scratch.  As far as I know, all of the Plan Z projects are shortcutting that process by customizing an off-the-shelf game engine (Unreal 3 for The Phoenix Project, Hero for Heroes and Villains, and if I'm not mistaken, and I think Unity for Valiance Online) to keep development from taking so long.

Also yes we have ICON where you can create a character and run around and spawn npcs inputting codes (which I personally hate) to stand idle. These are good things for some but for others it's "nothing", you can't get upset because some feel that these things aren't much to build up hope for a return of COH.

I have said all along that it depends on how you define "a return of COH."  If you're referring to the way things were this time last year, I will be the first to admit that those days are forever gone, done and over with.  We had a small window of opportunity for that to happen in September last year, and it fell through.

I have also said all along that "City of Heroes" means different things to different people.  Some were in it after all these years to keep in touch with the people they enjoyed playing with.  They still read and post here, and they're involved with other games with their friends from City of Heroes.  Some of those folks are perfectly happy and couldn't care less that the game they established their social circles in is gone.  They still hang out with the same people, it's just different pixels on a screen now.

Some liked playing around with the costume editor, endlessly designing outfits and backstories, using City of Heroes basically as a front-end for their imagination.  While they wish the game had continued, some of them are probably sufficiently happy now with Icon that it's really helped replicate the experience that they enjoyed most about the game.  Some liked flying around the city, which they can do with Icon.  Some liked the mechanics and/or the theme of the game, and will be happy once one or more of the Plan Z projects launch.  Some liked the writing in the game, which they can still experience at ParagonWiki.com.  Some liked the city itself, which to some degree can be experienced with Icon, and which we're hoping can be recreated with some of the reverse engineering efforts in progress.

To be blunt, some have even mentioned to me that while they didn't want the game to shut down, having Icon is even cooler because you can turn off clipping to go anywhere, spawn NPCs and change models on the fly, and access the game much like the developers used to.

Some people won't be happy unless every aspect of all of these things can be recreated.  To those people, I'm not sure what to say except that I'm sorry, the only way for that to happen would be an extremely unlikely confluence of events.  If that's what you think that these forums exist for, you will always be disappointed no matter how many times you pop in and make the observation that the game as it used to be isn't back yet.

I never promised that any solution we come to with our efforts will be 100% perfect, but like I said, I take exception to anyone who equates that to "not much has been done."  And to be blunt, it's entirely within the realm of the likely that the reverse engineering efforts and/or one or more Plan Z project will result in a solution that is >100% perfect for a lot of people; that there may be features and capabilities that, because of technical and business limitations imposed on Paragon Studios, end up making for a better experience than the original.

All I can say is that you'll have to stay tuned to see.  The easiest way to do that is to at least lurk on these forums and try to keep a finger on the pulse of what's going on.  But popping in every blue moon just to post that we're not meeting some arbitrary criteria of where someone deems we should be is not only unhelpful, it needlessly undermines the hard work that people are doing.